Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little concerned when I see parents thinking of sending their children to universities abroad. It is a long-term commitment. The best universities in America offer arguably the best undergraduate education, and at least for job prospects (particularly in North America), a U.S. degree will get you farther. I know it's not popular to say these kinds of things (I feel like I need to say that I am not remotely near a MAGA head), but I feel like it warrants mention.

Do you have stats to back that up? At. Andrew’s rivals good US universities.

What gives you the impression that St. Andrews rivals "good US universities"? It would be lucky to be placed in the top 75 or so if it were plopped in the States.

The Guardian ranks it #2 in the UK, ahead of Cambridge: https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2020/sep/05/the-best-uk-universities-2021-league-table

No one, and certainly not Brits, would rank St Andrews above Cambridge.

It’s subjective, like any ranking, but this one is done by Brits. And even if you think it’s 4th or 5th, the point is whether it “rivals ‘good US universities’ “ and the Brits seem to think it does.

I’m sorry - I am a Cambridge grad and St Andrews isn’t even close. I see folk talking up St Andrews - fact is, it is a very good Scottish university, a top 10 UK school, but in no way comparable to the Ivy League, or even the small Ivys. In my view, it is comparable to William and Mary or an Emory (great schools but not in the same league as Oxbridge or Ivy League).

+1. St Andrews ranks 342 in USN&WR for best public universities. That’s not great

Yeah, you lost me at USN&WR. as far as I’m concerned, they don’t know the difference between 32 and 342.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little concerned when I see parents thinking of sending their children to universities abroad. It is a long-term commitment. The best universities in America offer arguably the best undergraduate education, and at least for job prospects (particularly in North America), a U.S. degree will get you farther. I know it's not popular to say these kinds of things (I feel like I need to say that I am not remotely near a MAGA head), but I feel like it warrants mention.

Do you have stats to back that up? At. Andrew’s rivals good US universities.

What gives you the impression that St. Andrews rivals "good US universities"? It would be lucky to be placed in the top 75 or so if it were plopped in the States.

The Guardian ranks it #2 in the UK, ahead of Cambridge: https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2020/sep/05/the-best-uk-universities-2021-league-table

No one, and certainly not Brits, would rank St Andrews above Cambridge.

It’s subjective, like any ranking, but this one is done by Brits. And even if you think it’s 4th or 5th, the point is whether it “rivals ‘good US universities’ “ and the Brits seem to think it does.

I’m sorry - I am a Cambridge grad and St Andrews isn’t even close. I see folk talking up St Andrews - fact is, it is a very good Scottish university, a top 10 UK school, but in no way comparable to the Ivy League, or even the small Ivys. In my view, it is comparable to William and Mary or an Emory (great schools but not in the same league as Oxbridge or Ivy League).

+1. St Andrews ranks 342 in USN&WR for best public universities. That’s not great

Yeah, you lost me at USN&WR. as far as I’m concerned, they don’t know the difference between 32 and 342.

Actually, of all the rankings services USNWR is the gold standard

[Anonymous]

It's the third or fourth best university in Scotland, which has about half the population of Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's the third or fourth best university in Scotland, which has about half the population of Virginia.

Probably the second best to be fair behind Edinburgh.

Oxbridge, Imperial College, LSE, King’s college, UCL, Bristol, York, Warwick, Manchester and Exeter all arguably better than St Andrew’s. All the Americans piling into St Andrew’s are victims of clever marketing and are being hoodwinked into believing they are somehow getting an Ivy equivalent at a provincial Scottish university. Nice golf courses though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the third or fourth best university in Scotland, which has about half the population of Virginia.

Probably the second best to be fair behind Edinburgh.

Oxbridge, Imperial College, LSE, King’s college, UCL, Bristol, York, Warwick, Manchester and Exeter all arguably better than St Andrew’s. All the Americans piling into St Andrew’s are victims of clever marketing and are being hoodwinked into believing they are somehow getting an Ivy equivalent at a provincial Scottish university. Nice golf courses though.

No one has said that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the third or fourth best university in Scotland, which has about half the population of Virginia.

Probably the second best to be fair behind Edinburgh.

Edinburgh and Glasgow definitely are stronger and Aberdeen might be. I think "third or fourth" is correct.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little concerned when I see parents thinking of sending their children to universities abroad. It is a long-term commitment. The best universities in America offer arguably the best undergraduate education, and at least for job prospects (particularly in North America), a U.S. degree will get you farther. I know it's not popular to say these kinds of things (I feel like I need to say that I am not remotely near a MAGA head), but I feel like it warrants mention.

Do you have stats to back that up? At. Andrew’s rivals good US universities.

What gives you the impression that St. Andrews rivals "good US universities"? It would be lucky to be placed in the top 75 or so if it were plopped in the States.

The Guardian ranks it #2 in the UK, ahead of Cambridge: https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2020/sep/05/the-best-uk-universities-2021-league-table

No one, and certainly not Brits, would rank St Andrews above Cambridge.

It’s subjective, like any ranking, but this one is done by Brits. And even if you think it’s 4th or 5th, the point is whether it “rivals ‘good US universities’ “ and the Brits seem to think it does.

I’m sorry - I am a Cambridge grad and St Andrews isn’t even close. I see folk talking up St Andrews - fact is, it is a very good Scottish university, a top 10 UK school, but in no way comparable to the Ivy League, or even the small Ivys. In my view, it is comparable to William and Mary or an Emory (great schools but not in the same league as Oxbridge or Ivy League).

You're delusional. Emory?

[Anonymous]

Richmond is probably a good comp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little concerned when I see parents thinking of sending their children to universities abroad. It is a long-term commitment. The best universities in America offer arguably the best undergraduate education, and at least for job prospects (particularly in North America), a U.S. degree will get you farther. I know it's not popular to say these kinds of things (I feel like I need to say that I am not remotely near a MAGA head), but I feel like it warrants mention.

Do you have stats to back that up? At. Andrew’s rivals good US universities.

What gives you the impression that St. Andrews rivals "good US universities"? It would be lucky to be placed in the top 75 or so if it were plopped in the States.

The Guardian ranks it #2 in the UK, ahead of Cambridge: https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2020/sep/05/the-best-uk-universities-2021-league-table

No one, and certainly not Brits, would rank St Andrews above Cambridge.

It’s subjective, like any ranking, but this one is done by Brits. And even if you think it’s 4th or 5th, the point is whether it “rivals ‘good US universities’ “ and the Brits seem to think it does.

I’m sorry - I am a Cambridge grad and St Andrews isn’t even close. I see folk talking up St Andrews - fact is, it is a very good Scottish university, a top 10 UK school, but in no way comparable to the Ivy League, or even the small Ivys. In my view, it is comparable to William and Mary or an Emory (great schools but not in the same league as Oxbridge or Ivy League).

You're delusional. Emory?

Wtf? How is that PP delusional? If anything, they were being generous in their comparison.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How can you promise that? So every meaningful indicator that shows that St Andrews is, in fact, a top UK school is incorrect? And USNWR rankings they show WashU and Emory and Vanderbilt are T20 schools are bible truth but all other data is meaningless? Good to know. DCUM, you never disappoint.

We are trying to warn you, St. Andrews mom, that the prestige factor is not what you think but you don’t want to hear that.

I don't understand why you care so much. Why is it so important to bash a school that you, and presumably your kids, don't and won't attend? On what are you even basing your opinion? Have you actually ever had a real conversation with another person about St Andrews? I'm actually not interested in the "prestige" factor, but I do think that if all of the rankings (and we know that DCUM parents care so very much about rankings) indicate it's a great school, it probably is. And for the record, I know several UK kids who got into Durham, Edinburgh, UCL - and did not get into St Andrews.

I don't understand why you care so much.

-- I don't. I'm trying to answer (if you are OP) your initial post. I don't have a pony in this race, but I am concerned when St. Andrews mom reports back that "name recognition among U.S. employers shows St. Andrews after Cambridge and Oxford". That is simply wrong. I know a lot about British schools, so clicked on this thread. Am I allowed to post my thoughts without snark?

Why is it so important to bash a school that you, and presumably your kids, don't and won't attend?

-- Because OP asked for our opinions and I have an educated one

On what are you even basing your opinion?

-- Well, I was my college's nominee for both the Rhodes and the Marshall. I also attended a T3 law school. I lived in London as an ex-pat lawyer for 10 years. My DD is at Oxford. I'm in college counseling. I publish in the field.

Have you actually ever had a real conversation with another person about St Andrews?

-- Many. I taught there.

I'm actually not interested in the "prestige" factor, but I do think that if all of the rankings (and we know that DCUM parents care so very much about rankings) indicate it's a great school, it probably is

-- it's 342 in the world according to USNWR. That's not good.

And for the record, I know several UK kids who got into Durham, Edinburgh, UCL - and did not get into St Andrews.

-- Err. OK. Nevertheless. UK students know the top schools. St. Andrews isn't one of them because it caters to rich American and other internationals. If you don't want truthful opinions, why post?

[Anonymous]

I am concerned by the number of unabashed St Andrews boosters who are insisting that it’s extremely prestigious. Is DCUM being astroturfed by the StA marketing team? I know they’re quite invested in marketing the school to Americans.

I lived in London for 6 years and acquired a masters in the UK. StA really is not as elite as the people on here are pretending it to be. It would be like someone pretending that the University of Richmond was a top 5 school in the US. It’s just… not?

[Anonymous]

My child isn’t attending St Andrews, but from where I sit St Andrews parents didn’t claim it was prestigious, just tried to defend it against a bunch of DCUM haters. I saw the same thing in the NEU thread (again, kid is not attending although was definitely interested). It’s human nature to defend your kid’s dream school when faced with unnecessary negativity and snark. I would feel awful about myself if I tore people down like some of you do.

[Anonymous]

UK expat here - St Andrew’s got a profile boost when Prince William went there, and they’ve dined off it for years, very cleverly marketing to American students. The fact is, before it got a Royal connection, it was a distant 3rd in the Scottish rankings, never mind the Uk ones. It’s a decent university now, but it is not a top 10 Uk school and the ranking in USNWR is probably correct.

[Anonymous]

One of DC's BFF's picked it. Still can't quite figure it out save the parents are expats and part of my wonders if they are thinking of returning to UK at some during their DC's studies (though I really thought they were here forever - they've got a lot of real estate, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the third or fourth best university in Scotland, which has about half the population of Virginia.

Probably the second best to be fair behind Edinburgh.

Oxbridge, Imperial College, LSE, King’s college, UCL, Bristol, York, Warwick, Manchester and Exeter all arguably better than St Andrew’s. All the Americans piling into St Andrew’s are victims of clever marketing and are being hoodwinked into believing they are somehow getting an Ivy equivalent at a provincial Scottish university. Nice golf courses though.

My relative chose it over a bunch of US schools including Cornell, Tulane, Grinnell and some others. I am not sure why. Seems to like it but it also seems like a party school.