Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
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Live and learn PP... LIVE AND LEARN.. Why some doctors are moving away from ventilators for virus patients Some hospitals have reported unusually high death rates for COVID-19 patients on ventilators, and some doctors worry that the machines could be doing harm. April 9, 2020, 9:11 AM EDT By Associated Press As health officials around the world push to get more ventilators to treat coronavirus patients, some doctors are moving away from using the breathing machines when they can. The reason: Some hospitals have reported unusually high death rates for coronavirus patients on ventilators, and some doctors worry that the machines could be harming certain patients. |
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And more...
Doctors Suspect Mystery COVID-19 Lung Problems, Plea for New Approach 04/09/2020 2:00 PM Source: MedicineNet Health News Some doctors are questioning the way ventilators are being used for people with serious cases of COVID-19. Why? More data shows a high death rate for patients treated under current ventilator practices. At the same time, these doctors are saying their patients behave more like they have high altitude sickness than a viral infection. They talk about two different types of COVID-19 patients with differing severe lung problems. |
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https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=230110 |
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NY Doctor Finds Odd Lung Patterns
Assessing the outcomes of COVID-19 patients on ventilators, Brooklyn emergency room physician Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell found worse outcomes than expected. He told Medscape that around 70% of COVID-19 patients on ventilators never recover, based on his research. What's more, the doctor noticed disturbing patterns he had never seen before. COVID-19 patients on ventilators sometimes showed extremely low blood-oxygen concentrations during ventilation, he said. Despite doctors' best efforts, he reported seeing concentrations of oxygen in blood at 10% to 20%, and sometimes even lower – a healthy blood oxygen level is above 95 percent, according to the British Lung Foundation. Not only that, but some COVID-19 patients seem less obviously impaired by their low blood oxygen levels than he expected. "In the past, we haven't seen patients who are talking in full sentences and not complaining of overt shortness of breath, with (blood oxygen) saturations in the high 70s," he said. "You get used to seeing certain patterns, and the patterns I was seeing did not make sense." https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=230110 |
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How Successful Are Ventilators for COVID-19? Doctors and scientists studying the mortality rate of COVID-19 patients on mechanical ventilators say the available data is tricky to assess. Some studies put the death rate for coronavirus patients put on ventilators as low as 25%. But many report much higher rates, ranging anywhere from about 50% to as high as 98% in one instance. For example, in a UK study of 98 COVID-19 patients who received "advanced respiratory support," which included invasive ventilation and tracheostomy, 66% died, according to the nation's Intensive Care National Audit and Research Center (ICNARC). New York City hospitals have reported an even higher COVID-19 ventilator death rate. Roughly 80% or more of patients placed on ventilators there have died, according to AP News. The agency reports that typically only about 40% to 50% of patients on ventilators for non-COVID-19-related lung problems die. The percentage is high compared with the prognosis for some other medical procedures because, in general, doctors hold off on administering invasive ventilation until it is medically necessary, which means the illness is already quite serious before intubation. Though data continue to emerge, some doctors feel enough already exists to justify new approaches to treating the most serious COVID-19 cases. https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=230110 |
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NYC doctor says high ventilator settings damage coronavirus patients' lungs | April 07, 2020 A Brooklyn doctor is warning that critically ill coronavirus patients are being inadvertently harmed by the very same breathing machines being used to keep them alive. In a video posted on YouTube, Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell, an emergency medicine physician at Maimonides Medical Center, said that “we are putting breathing tubes in people and putting them on ventilators and dialing up the pressure to open up their lungs.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWaq8HoEROU |
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[youtube]https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/covid-19/nyc-doctor-says-high-ventilator-settings-damage-coronavirus-patients-lungs[/youtube]
A Brooklyn doctor is warning that critically ill coronavirus patients are being inadvertently harmed by the very same breathing machines being used to keep them alive. In a video posted on YouTube, Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell, an emergency medicine physician at Maimonides Medical Center, said that “we are putting breathing tubes in people and putting them on ventilators and dialing up the pressure to open up their lungs.” “I’ve talked to doctors all around the country and it is becoming increasingly clear that the pressure we’re providing may be hurting their lungs, that it is highly likely that the high pressures we’re using are damaging the lungs of the patients we are putting the breathing tubes in,” he said in a two-minute video he posted Wednesday. Kyle-Sidell, who’s board-certified in emergency medicine, didn’t return a message from The Post, but he told WebMd’s Medscape website that his beliefs led him to “step down from my position in the ICU.” “We ran into an impasse where I could not morally, in a patient-doctor relationship, I could not continue the current protocols which again, are the protocols at the top hospitals in the country,” he said in a video interview posted Monday. “So now I’m back in the ER where we are setting up slightly different ventilation strategies.” In his Wednesday YouTube video, Kyle-Sidell described the situation involving the ventilator settings as “not our fault.” “We didn’t know. This is how we treat ARDS [acute respiratory distress syndrome]. This is how we’ve treated it for the last 20 years,” he said in the video. But Kyle-Sidell insisted that “we need to change those protocols” and cautioned that “the time for us to change them is rapidly diminishing.” “COVID-positive patients need oxygen. They do not need pressure,” he said. “They will need ventilators — but they must be programmed differently.” In another video posted Sunday, Kyle-Sidell described COVID-19 as “a disease that does not make sense to us — a disease for which our usual treatment does not work.” “Some are questioning whether this is a lung disease causing blood problems or a blood disease causing lung problems,” he said. “I don’t know what it is, but I know that I have never seen it before. People are dying of a disease we don’t understand, thousand of people, old and young, and yes, there are young people dying.” Kyle-Sidell has also said that “COVID-19 lung disease, as far as I can see, is not a pneumonia” but seems to be “some kind of viral-induced disease most resembling high altitude sickness.” “It is as if tens of thousands of my fellow New Yorkers are on a plane at 30,000 feet and the cabin pressure is slowly being let out,” he said in a video posted Tuesday. “These patients are slowly being starved of oxygen … and while they look like patients absolutely on the brink of death, they do not look like patients dying of pneumonia.” James Cai, a physician assistant who was New Jersey’s first coronavirus patient, told The Post that he agreed with Kyle-Sidell’s observations and conclusions, based on his own experience in beating the deadly disease. “It all makes sense why experts in China told me to use oxygen to sleep no matter what and use it whenever I needed during the day,” he said via text message. “We need all the researchers to take very close to this disease and don’t just follow the paradigm of how to treat PNA[pneumonia]/ARDS.” Cai noted that the “muscle of the lung in ARDS patient doesn’t work properly but muscle in COVID-19 patient works just fine. So [a] ventilator is actually doing more harm to [the] lung when it happens.” “It is a new disease and none of the American doctors have encountered it in their lives, not in textbook and they are figuring things out by experience!” he added. “They really need help because thousands of thousands [of] Americans’ lives are on the line!” Maimonides didn’t immediately return a request for comment. |
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URGENT!! Please watch and share with all healthcare workers who work with CV patients: This is the video referenced above! |
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More interview with the doctor on Medscape:
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/928156 |
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So the question is: Why this information is NOT widely discussed or available in all hospitals around the USA?
This doctor who is on he front line of the fight with Coronavirus in New York City is being interviewed by another doctor on WebMed and there is a clear message in this. There is a NEED to look into the ventilator protocols and flexibility can save lives! Who needs to see it? Dr. Birx? Dr. Fauci? CDC? Health Department? .. clearly if this is not discussed anywhere that means many lives that coudl be saved are not beign saved... After treating patients with COVID-19, a New York city physician suggests ventilator protocols may need revisiting |
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