So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no "perfect" system, but there is one that is closest:

The one we have now. Where colleges get to choose whoever they want for whatever reason they want.

No one is ever kept out of college for any reason other than economics. There are more than enough good educations out there.

This false issue is only spouted by people who want to attend elite colleges but want to ignore the facts that make those colleges elite in the first place.

And we are not talking about the fraud that occurred, that is a separate issue and should be prosecuted.

what we have now is idiotic. colleges are kid of the country club and the IQ. these two things need to be separate. either the colleges convert to country clubs and drop all pretense of intellectualism or they drop that crap and admit the best prepared (through real entrance exams not the crap we have). this is mix is not working - it’s tremendous waste of resources for everyone.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oxbridge / caltech model is the best.

German model is good as well.

Caltech is vulnerable to faked test scores.

Oxbridge has no legacy preferences. There's a reason Prince William went to St. Andrews. He would have never gotten in.

Prince Charles did go to Cambridge and many believe it was not on merit.

The Oxbridge system is an escalator system. You have to get into the right preschool to go to the right prep and boarding schools (e.g. Eton and Harrow) to have a much higher chance of going to Oxbridge. These are private all the way, so extremely expensive. 60% at Oxford went to what would be called private schools in the U.S. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/oxford-university-cambridge-state-school-socially-inclusive-ethnicity-sunday-times-guide-david-lammy-a8551036.html

Prince Charles is 70. Things have changed in Britain since then, as evidenced by the fact that you see the rich and royal at schools other than Oxbridge. Not to say that the rich don’t have advantages and privileges, but Britain has moved beyond codified legacy preferences. The US still embraces the inequality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah...
I auditioned my way into college and I’m not sorry for that. I was admitted to a school of music. I wasn’t a fanstastic student and sure, kids with better grades didn’t get in and I did. So what?
They could have auditioned too. No one was stopping them

huh what? art programs should be based on auditions

[Anonymous]

Everyone knows it should be like a Cast system.

-A students get into the best universities & become our doctors/lawyers/scientists/engineers
-B students get into good universities & become our upper management types
-C students can submit to universities for a lottery type system & become the office drone types
-D students get to learn a trade
-F students are our fast food workers and the like

But in all seriousness, we need to go back to the emphasis that not every job requires a college degree. You do not need a degree to be a sales person or general office type jobs. I'm sorry, but you just don't. Those are jobs that can be learned and mastered by anyone with a willingness to learn and a brain.

I was made fun of my entire life because my dad owns as portable toilet company. I even had some teachers who treated me less than because of his job and the fact that I lived out in the country. My only friends were my cousins in elementary through all of middle school. It wasn't until Christmas break of my freshmen year in high school that people started really questioning my life. This was the result of happenstance... one of the most popular girls in my grade ended up on the same Caribbean cruise as me and my family over the holidays. She told others she'd seen me and they started asking questions like how could my poor family afford that, did I win a charity auction, was it a Make a Wish type deal, etc. When they found out we did a cruise every Christmas break, the questions turned to where I lived exactly and what my house looked like and could they come over to study. They literally had no idea that yes, while I lived outside of town in the country, I lived on a huge property in a huge house that had an arcade, heated pool, and an entire converted barn that was my own space full of video games and the hottest gizmos and gadgets. My parents were (and still are) loaded from my dad's little ol' company of portable toilets. Even now, if my dad meets someone new and tells them what he did, they make a face and just assume he's an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone knows it should be like a Cast system.

-A students get into the best universities & become our doctors/lawyers/scientists/engineers
-B students get into good universities & become our upper management types
-C students can submit to universities for a lottery type system & become the office drone types
-D students get to learn a trade
-F students are our fast food workers and the like

But in all seriousness, we need to go back to the emphasis that not every job requires a college degree. You do not need a degree to be a sales person or general office type jobs. I'm sorry, but you just don't. Those are jobs that can be learned and mastered by anyone with a willingness to learn and a brain.

I was made fun of my entire life because my dad owns as portable toilet company. I even had some teachers who treated me less than because of his job and the fact that I lived out in the country. My only friends were my cousins in elementary through all of middle school. It wasn't until Christmas break of my freshmen year in high school that people started really questioning my life. This was the result of happenstance... one of the most popular girls in my grade ended up on the same Caribbean cruise as me and my family over the holidays. She told others she'd seen me and they started asking questions like how could my poor family afford that, did I win a charity auction, was it a Make a Wish type deal, etc. When they found out we did a cruise every Christmas break, the questions turned to where I lived exactly and what my house looked like and could they come over to study. They literally had no idea that yes, while I lived outside of town in the country, I lived on a huge property in a huge house that had an arcade, heated pool, and an entire converted barn that was my own space full of video games and the hottest gizmos and gadgets. My parents were (and still are) loaded from my dad's little ol' company of portable toilets. Even now, if my dad meets someone new and tells them what he did, they make a face and just assume he's an idiot.

Your family is so much better that most on this site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah...
I auditioned my way into college and I’m not sorry for that. I was admitted to a school of music. I wasn’t a fanstastic student and sure, kids with better grades didn’t get in and I did. So what?
They could have auditioned too. No one was stopping them

huh what? art programs should be based on auditions

I agree, but that’s not what someone was posting upthread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone knows it should be like a Cast system.

-A students get into the best universities & become our doctors/lawyers/scientists/engineers
-B students get into good universities & become our upper management types
-C students can submit to universities for a lottery type system & become the office drone types
-D students get to learn a trade
-F students are our fast food workers and the like

But in all seriousness, we need to go back to the emphasis that not every job requires a college degree. You do not need a degree to be a sales person or general office type jobs. I'm sorry, but you just don't. Those are jobs that can be learned and mastered by anyone with a willingness to learn and a brain.

I was made fun of my entire life because my dad owns as portable toilet company. I even had some teachers who treated me less than because of his job and the fact that I lived out in the country. My only friends were my cousins in elementary through all of middle school. It wasn't until Christmas break of my freshmen year in high school that people started really questioning my life. This was the result of happenstance... one of the most popular girls in my grade ended up on the same Caribbean cruise as me and my family over the holidays. She told others she'd seen me and they started asking questions like how could my poor family afford that, did I win a charity auction, was it a Make a Wish type deal, etc. When they found out we did a cruise every Christmas break, the questions turned to where I lived exactly and what my house looked like and could they come over to study. They literally had no idea that yes, while I lived outside of town in the country, I lived on a huge property in a huge house that had an arcade, heated pool, and an entire converted barn that was my own space full of video games and the hottest gizmos and gadgets. My parents were (and still are) loaded from my dad's little ol' company of portable toilets. Even now, if my dad meets someone new and tells them what he did, they make a face and just assume he's an idiot.

This is so weird. Where was this? It doesn’t matter what you make, if you own a successful business, you likely have wealth. I’m astonished that no one in this town could put 2 and 2 together.

[Anonymous]

Build up the reputations of the universities ranked from 25-30ish - 100, so people don’t go so insane trying to get their kid into one of a very small number of “elite” schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I could wave a magic wand ...

1) Eliminate activities as a consideration. Do not even have it as an option on the Common or Coalition App -- no preferences for athletes, ballet stars, musical prodigies, marching band members, debaters etc.

Schools can offer these activities to anyone in the freshman class who tries out for them, like high school.

2) Blind admission files, with the exception of perhaps geography and gender (same as with an academic journal; no one knows who the author is).

No names on apps, no interviews with applicants. The record must stand on its own. Recommendations and calls only accepted from teachers or employers.

THIS x a million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I could wave a magic wand ...

1) Eliminate activities as a consideration. Do not even have it as an option on the Common or Coalition App -- no preferences for athletes, ballet stars, musical prodigies, marching band members, debaters etc.

Schools can offer these activities to anyone in the freshman class who tries out for them, like high school.

2) Blind admission files, with the exception of perhaps geography and gender (same as with an academic journal; no one knows who the author is).

No names on apps, no interviews with applicants. The record must stand on its own. Recommendations and calls only accepted from teachers or employers.

THIS x a million.

What would be in the actual application? What would they be judged on? SATs obviously aren't a good idea as they can be easily faked or bribed. Grades are inflated. So what basis would be used?

[Anonymous]

“I'm sorry but eliminate accomodations. If you think that is needed let everyone take as long as they want...”

+1
If some people want more time for it then it should be available to all. Sit in the room all day long if you want - whatever the max time is should apply to all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about we start by changing attitudes on the demand side? Parents and students need to stop obsessing about school ratings and prestige. No new admission system is going to prevent most applicants to the highly selective schools from getting rejected. It’s just numbers.

Stop it with the bad logic on athletes and college sports. Only a few schools actually make money on their sports programs. The Ivy League is the name of a sports conference for goodness sake. The schools want those student-athletes, most of whom are just as smart as your kid.

Then why do the schools have to lower the admissions standards for athletes to gain entrance? Why do athletes often take remedial classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“I'm sorry but eliminate accomodations. If you think that is needed let everyone take as long as they want...”

+1
If some people want more time for it then it should be available to all. Sit in the room all day long if you want - whatever the max time is should apply to all.

+1. I think there is a really small universe of students this should apply to. The time management is part of the test. Life doesn’t offer accommodations so better to learn that early on than be fired from your first job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ditch the SATs, the essay and the extracurricular stuff.

Have entrance exam that test subject matter knowledge. There will not a be single student in the USA who can score 100% on all of them.

Combine that score with the GPA and take the top x students. Done!

+1

Change the exam every year, so there is no over prepping and cheating off last years exams.

the entrance exams in many countries are so hard the only way to “prep” for them is to study the subject throughly for years.

What countries? When did so many people decide to come to the U.S. for education?

France, especially to the better schools like the National School of Administration. You can't get in there without years of private tutors, even for the most intelligent, which means who do you think gets in? The people who could afford those prep classes and tutors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every GPA in the country should be based off the 100 point model. Get rid of weighted courses and get rid of magnet schools. Give each school curriculum options and let the kids decide which courses they want as long as they take one math, one english, one science, one social studies, and one elective each year. Max classes is 6.

One practice test for ACT and one for SAT in Spring of sophomore year.

One test in both ACT and SAT in junior year Spring, taken at the school during a school day, 2 weeks apart. They can account for each student. No retakes are allowed. You can decide which of the two scores to submit.

Seniors should be given a 3 hour window to write their general essay in school on paper. Counselors co-sign for authenticity and upload them into their system and send them out as needed. If a college needs specific essays they must be done on high school grounds. Each school allots a 2 hour window once a week. It is hand written and co-signed by the proctor.

EC's that you can put down on a college app are maxed out at 5. Make them count.

You must apply to each school individually. App prices should be lowered or at least on a sliding scale. Under $50K a year - free. $50-100K a year - $25. $100K or higher $50.

Applications should be given numbers. Admissions should never know the name of the student. They also should not know their FAFSA/CSS until a decision has been made. A separate committee makes up the aid packages based on a scale of how bad the school wants that student. High, Average, Low.

Coaches have to give a full page report on each individual they want to recruit. All D1 athletic recruits need to do an interview at the school or have someone from admissions go to their house for the interview.

THIS!!!