So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?

[Anonymous]

Every GPA in the country should be based off the 100 point model. Get rid of weighted courses and get rid of magnet schools. Give each school curriculum options and let the kids decide which courses they want as long as they take one math, one english, one science, one social studies, and one elective each year. Max classes is 6.

One practice test for ACT and one for SAT in Spring of sophomore year.

One test in both ACT and SAT in junior year Spring, taken at the school during a school day, 2 weeks apart. They can account for each student. No retakes are allowed. You can decide which of the two scores to submit.

Seniors should be given a 3 hour window to write their general essay in school on paper. Counselors co-sign for authenticity and upload them into their system and send them out as needed. If a college needs specific essays they must be done on high school grounds. Each school allots a 2 hour window once a week. It is hand written and co-signed by the proctor.

EC's that you can put down on a college app are maxed out at 5. Make them count.

You must apply to each school individually. App prices should be lowered or at least on a sliding scale. Under $50K a year - free. $50-100K a year - $25. $100K or higher $50.

Applications should be given numbers. Admissions should never know the name of the student. They also should not know their FAFSA/CSS until a decision has been made. A separate committee makes up the aid packages based on a scale of how bad the school wants that student. High, Average, Low.

Coaches have to give a full page report on each individual they want to recruit. All D1 athletic recruits need to do an interview at the school or have someone from admissions go to their house for the interview.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure we have a big problem here. Universities try to get people to apply and they accept the group of students that they want. Their decision can be based on grades, accomplishments, diversity and, of course, cold hard cash.

I think the complaint in this case was that William Rick Singer was cheating the system by taking money that should go to the schools and not really sending them the students they thought they were getting.

He was cutting in on their business!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should educate everybody.

Education should not be a culling process.

Get rid of SAT/ACT.

But where does gaming the system (ie: the mediocre wanting to be top tier) stop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every GPA in the country should be based off the 100 point model. Get rid of weighted courses and get rid of magnet schools. Give each school curriculum options and let the kids decide which courses they want as long as they take one math, one english, one science, one social studies, and one elective each year. Max classes is 6.

One practice test for ACT and one for SAT in Spring of sophomore year.

One test in both ACT and SAT in junior year Spring, taken at the school during a school day, 2 weeks apart. They can account for each student. No retakes are allowed. You can decide which of the two scores to submit.

Seniors should be given a 3 hour window to write their general essay in school on paper. Counselors co-sign for authenticity and upload them into their system and send them out as needed. If a college needs specific essays they must be done on high school grounds. Each school allots a 2 hour window once a week. It is hand written and co-signed by the proctor.

EC's that you can put down on a college app are maxed out at 5. Make them count.

You must apply to each school individually. App prices should be lowered or at least on a sliding scale. Under $50K a year - free. $50-100K a year - $25. $100K or higher $50.

Applications should be given numbers. Admissions should never know the name of the student. They also should not know their FAFSA/CSS until a decision has been made. A separate committee makes up the aid packages based on a scale of how bad the school wants that student. High, Average, Low.

Coaches have to give a full page report on each individual they want to recruit. All D1 athletic recruits need to do an interview at the school or have someone from admissions go to their house for the interview.

+1

In prior years, there was only one standardized test score allowed for submission, no retakes. There needs to be a culling on prep, in general. An overly prepped student is not genuinely prepared. Before we had over prepped students, it was the students willing and able to learn that first time who reaped the benefits. Anyone can overly prepare, it is not an accurate indication of who should be at what school. Athletes should be made to keep a certain GPA, as with any other student. Excessive missed days of school and classes should be counted against anyone (same with high school - athletes are missing school and classes at the highest rates). Agree with the numbering system - no names allowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a better system:

Take sports out of the admissions process. All the college teams can become clubs (much like the European soccer clubs) that are affiliated with the university. Athletes can be paid and they get to take classes part time at the college.

In addition to removing sports from the college application, remove extracurriculars as well. Admission should be granted based upon SAT scores, GPA and AP exam grades. College as an academic experience should be based on academic performance. All students should be given AP tests for free - much like the English A-level exams. I understand that whatever system exists will be games but grades from 3 separate unconnected institutions (SAT, GPA, AP) seems like the best approach. Things like “fit” and extracurriculars make it way too easy for the wealthy to game the system.

Test scores can be obviously and easily faked. Fraud is rampant. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Except athletes are way more successful than the general student do that is a stupid idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure we have a big problem here. Universities try to get people to apply and they accept the group of students that they want. Their decision can be based on grades, accomplishments, diversity and, of course, cold hard cash.

I think the complaint in this case was that William Rick Singer was cheating the system by taking money that should go to the schools and not really sending them the students they thought they were getting.

He was cutting in on their business!

No entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a better system:

Take sports out of the admissions process. All the college teams can become clubs (much like the European soccer clubs) that are affiliated with the university. Athletes can be paid and they get to take classes part time at the college.

In addition to removing sports from the college application, remove extracurriculars as well. Admission should be granted based upon SAT scores, GPA and AP exam grades. College as an academic experience should be based on academic performance. All students should be given AP tests for free - much like the English A-level exams. I understand that whatever system exists will be games but grades from 3 separate unconnected institutions (SAT, GPA, AP) seems like the best approach. Things like “fit” and extracurriculars make it way too easy for the wealthy to game the system.

Test scores can be obviously and easily faked. Fraud is rampant. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Except athletes are way more successful than the general student do that is a stupid idea.

Athletes bring money into the school. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure we have a big problem here. Universities try to get people to apply and they accept the group of students that they want. Their decision can be based on grades, accomplishments, diversity and, of course, cold hard cash.

I think the complaint in this case was that William Rick Singer was cheating the system by taking money that should go to the schools and not really sending them the students they thought they were getting.

He was cutting in on their business!

No entirely.

NOT entirely.

[Anonymous]

Let just start here...

Eliminate all preferences (athletics, recommendations, legacy, etc.)

Eliminate the essay (perhaps get written directly from school but really not even that)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should educate everybody.

Education should not be a culling process.

Get rid of SAT/ACT.

But where does gaming the system (ie: the mediocre wanting to be top tier) stop?

Who care if a few "medicirce" (in your opinion) goes to a top college.

Most successful people were mediocre students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let just start here...

Eliminate all preferences (athletics, recommendations, legacy, etc.)

Eliminate the essay (perhaps get written directly from school but really not even that)

except athletes and high level art are more successful than the general student.

How about no students that aren't athletes or in the arts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. Increase the security around proctors and test sites for SAT and ACT. I think over the years people have been complaining about it getting too strict or creating too many "barriers" but I think this scandal should shut that down.

2. Increase the scrutiny around getting extended time waivers on testing. If I were a parent of a child that actually needed this accommodation, I would be LIVID that people have been using this, and thereby making it that much more difficult for my child to be given appropriate accommodations. If a person is going to be granted this, they have to have an already demonstrated record of a 504, IEP, etc. that can't suddenly develop this need in their Junior year, unless it can be clearly documented why the new need. (I think in another thread someone mentioned a child receiving a concussion, and I could see that being a reason for a new need for accommodation. Even with those accommodations, see my first point--the sites where these test are done and the proctors doing them must be held to a highly secure standard.

3. For the coaching/recruit side of this. It must be a required part of the work of coaches that they:
a. Are responsible for demonstrating they have confirmed the validity of the student athlete they are designating as a recruit. This is super easy to do. Verifiable scores/rankings, etc. can be obtained from independent sources.
b. They must submit reports each year documenting the participation of students that they identified as recruits in previous years. We all know that sometimes there are instances that a student might be recruited but ultimately not play, but there needs to be transparency about it. If student didn't participate for legitimate reasons, there's no reason to hide that information.

4. I think this one might be harder, but...
I would like to see legislation that puts some kind of prohibition against colleges or universities accepting donations from anyone with a child ages 12-20. Like I said, probably really hard to make illegal, so instead perhaps it's about reporting, transparency, spotlight, shaming.
-Make donation information easy to access and reported annually in a consistent format across all institutions (similar to the Common Data Set.)
-Require reporting that shows the names of currently enrolled students who's families have made donations to the schools.
Hopefully, this will discourage schools from accepting these "pay-for-play" students because it will be damaging to their reputation.

Anyway, that's a start....

You want to publicly shame the rich. The will never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. Increase the security around proctors and test sites for SAT and ACT. I think over the years people have been complaining about it getting too strict or creating too many "barriers" but I think this scandal should shut that down.

2. Increase the scrutiny around getting extended time waivers on testing. If I were a parent of a child that actually needed this accommodation, I would be LIVID that people have been using this, and thereby making it that much more difficult for my child to be given appropriate accommodations. If a person is going to be granted this, they have to have an already demonstrated record of a 504, IEP, etc. that can't suddenly develop this need in their Junior year, unless it can be clearly documented why the new need. (I think in another thread someone mentioned a child receiving a concussion, and I could see that being a reason for a new need for accommodation. Even with those accommodations, see my first point--the sites where these test are done and the proctors doing them must be held to a highly secure standard.

3. For the coaching/recruit side of this. It must be a required part of the work of coaches that they:
a. Are responsible for demonstrating they have confirmed the validity of the student athlete they are designating as a recruit. This is super easy to do. Verifiable scores/rankings, etc. can be obtained from independent sources.
b. They must submit reports each year documenting the participation of students that they identified as recruits in previous years. We all know that sometimes there are instances that a student might be recruited but ultimately not play, but there needs to be transparency about it. If student didn't participate for legitimate reasons, there's no reason to hide that information.

4. I think this one might be harder, but...
I would like to see legislation that puts some kind of prohibition against colleges or universities accepting donations from anyone with a child ages 12-20. Like I said, probably really hard to make illegal, so instead perhaps it's about reporting, transparency, spotlight, shaming.
-Make donation information easy to access and reported annually in a consistent format across all institutions (similar to the Common Data Set.)
-Require reporting that shows the names of currently enrolled students who's families have made donations to the schools.
Hopefully, this will discourage schools from accepting these "pay-for-play" students because it will be damaging to their reputation.

Anyway, that's a start....

I'm sorry but eliminate accomodations. If you think that is needed let everyone take as long as they want...

[Anonymous]

Ditch the SATs, the essay and the extracurricular stuff.

Have entrance exam that test subject matter knowledge. There will not a be single student in the USA who can score 100% on all of them.

Combine that score with the GPA and take the top x students. Done!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let just start here...

Eliminate all preferences (athletics, recommendations, legacy, etc.)

Eliminate the essay (perhaps get written directly from school but really not even that)

except athletes and high level art are more successful than the general student.

How about no students that aren't athletes or in the arts.

You keep saying this. Why? Why do think athletes are more "successful" than anyone else?