timeline for Woodward/WJ decision?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This. It will be really interesting to see what they do with SV and the impacted schools. It's going to be ugly so get your popcorn ready, folks.


It was always going to be ugly, because of the contingents from the Clarksburg and Northwest clusters who want Clarksburg and Northwest to be segregated high schools, and the poor kids should all go to Seneca Valley for their own good due to geographic proximity. There was already quite enough of that with the Hallie Wells MS boundary study, and even with the original Clarksburg HS boundary study. Just because we're in the Siberian Hinterlands doesn't mean we can't be every bit as nasty as parents in Bethesda, Potomac, and North Potomac.


Well I get why they'd be pissed. No reason to bus kids 2 or 3 exits over to the other town just to fulfill the MCPS agenda.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This. It will be really interesting to see what they do with SV and the impacted schools. It's going to be ugly so get your popcorn ready, folks.


It was always going to be ugly, because of the contingents from the Clarksburg and Northwest clusters who want Clarksburg and Northwest to be segregated high schools, and the poor kids should all go to Seneca Valley for their own good due to geographic proximity. There was already quite enough of that with the Hallie Wells MS boundary study, and even with the original Clarksburg HS boundary study. Just because we're in the Siberian Hinterlands doesn't mean we can't be every bit as nasty as parents in Bethesda, Potomac, and North Potomac.


Well I get why they'd be pissed. No reason to bus kids 2 or 3 exits over to the other town just to fulfill the MCPS agenda.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/Viewer.html

Take a closer look at the current boundaries. There are areas closer to SV that feed Clarksburg, and areas closer to Clarksburg that feed SV. There are areas closer to QO currently feeding Northwest and Wootton. Wait until we add Crown HS into the mix. There is no way to keep up with the ongoing development and demographic shifts as neighborhoods age. Personally, I think that the time for fixed boundaries is past. Every neighborhood should have two or three possible elementary, middle, and high schools to attend. School assignment can be decided by choice process (with no default home school), which considers capacity in addition to choice. Simply allowing choice may let some of the capacity issues to resolve themselves. But it gives longer term flexibility for moving students from overcrowded schools to less crowded ones (and then back 15 years later when the neighborhood shifts.)
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This. It will be really interesting to see what they do with SV and the impacted schools. It's going to be ugly so get your popcorn ready, folks.


It was always going to be ugly, because of the contingents from the Clarksburg and Northwest clusters who want Clarksburg and Northwest to be segregated high schools, and the poor kids should all go to Seneca Valley for their own good due to geographic proximity. There was already quite enough of that with the Hallie Wells MS boundary study, and even with the original Clarksburg HS boundary study. Just because we're in the Siberian Hinterlands doesn't mean we can't be every bit as nasty as parents in Bethesda, Potomac, and North Potomac.


Well I get why they'd be pissed. No reason to bus kids 2 or 3 exits over to the other town just to fulfill the MCPS agenda.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/Viewer.html

Take a closer look at the current boundaries. There are areas closer to SV that feed Clarksburg, and areas closer to Clarksburg that feed SV. There are areas closer to QO currently feeding Northwest and Wootton. Wait until we add Crown HS into the mix. There is no way to keep up with the ongoing development and demographic shifts as neighborhoods age. Personally, I think that the time for fixed boundaries is past. Every neighborhood should have two or three possible elementary, middle, and high schools to attend. School assignment can be decided by choice process (with no default home school), which considers capacity in addition to choice. Simply allowing choice may let some of the capacity issues to resolve themselves. But it gives longer term flexibility for moving students from overcrowded schools to less crowded ones (and then back 15 years later when the neighborhood shifts.)


I think this is a great idea. I've always wondered why they don't have a DCC concept anywhere else in the county. But I especially like the idea of not having a fixed school based on your neighborhood.
Anonymous
They must be eliminating school buses in your scenario.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
There are a lot of families on this forum who send their kids to Einstein and who are very happy. Many of them report that their children have been highly successful post graduation from Einstein. There is however a very noticeable difference in the real estate prices for homes zoned for WJ and homes zoned for Einstein (I would say it is close to $150,000) so there is justifiable concern about how a redistricting out of WJ would impact real estate values. For many middle class families, our homes are our most important asset.

I have looked at a couple of reports to see if there are objective differences in the performance of students at WJ and Einstein so we can go beyond anecdotes.

The first looks at SAT scores by school and breaks scores down by race etc. for each school . It is long but a lot of good information can be found on just one page (Table A8 in the Appendix)
https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf
Every single student subgroup performs better in WJ by at least 100 points.

The second report looks at AP and IB results. It is even longer and harder to find one table that lays it all out. It looks like AP results are better at WJ. There is however a small group of students at Einstein that take IB tests (only 66 students at Einstein took one or more IB test compared to 282 at BCC and 189 at Rockville). These 66 students do well and 85% of them score 4 or higher on the test. See Table D3a and D3b
https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2018/2017%20AP%20IB%20Course%20Enrollment%20and%20Exam%20Participation%20Performance.pdf



I look at these reports and I must say I find the results a little perplexing. I seem to remember that the five middle school clusters that had the largest number of children who were deemed qualified for the middle school magnets were Frost, Hoover, Sligo, Silver Spring international and Pyle. Why aren’t the corresponding High schools producing similar results?


The cohort gets split up to various high schools in the DCC for Sligo and SSIMS.

Sligo is zoned for Einstein so you should see much better results for Einstein with such a large number of high performers coming up from Sligo. Unless many of these kids are opting for Blair or Wheaton?


From the families I know some kids at Blair for CAP or magnet, 1 at Wheaton, the rest at Einstein.

SSIMS recently hosted an event where former SSIMS students spoke to current 8th graders about their respective high schools. Only one was at Einstein, and one or two at Kennedy. The vast majority were at Blair (regular, CAP and SMAC), Wheaton Biomed magnet and Northwood.


Because they didn’t invite the 98% of students who pass through with mediocre results

Your comment is a non sequitur, misinformed and misunderstood the point of the prior posts. But hey, you do you, troll.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:They must be eliminating school buses in your scenario.


If you have the option of only 2-3 high schools per neighborhood, sure why not..
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This. It will be really interesting to see what they do with SV and the impacted schools. It's going to be ugly so get your popcorn ready, folks.


It was always going to be ugly, because of the contingents from the Clarksburg and Northwest clusters who want Clarksburg and Northwest to be segregated high schools, and the poor kids should all go to Seneca Valley for their own good due to geographic proximity. There was already quite enough of that with the Hallie Wells MS boundary study, and even with the original Clarksburg HS boundary study. Just because we're in the Siberian Hinterlands doesn't mean we can't be every bit as nasty as parents in Bethesda, Potomac, and North Potomac.


Well I get why they'd be pissed. No reason to bus kids 2 or 3 exits over to the other town just to fulfill the MCPS agenda.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/Viewer.html

Take a closer look at the current boundaries. There are areas closer to SV that feed Clarksburg, and areas closer to Clarksburg that feed SV. There are areas closer to QO currently feeding Northwest and Wootton. Wait until we add Crown HS into the mix. There is no way to keep up with the ongoing development and demographic shifts as neighborhoods age. Personally, I think that the time for fixed boundaries is past. Every neighborhood should have two or three possible elementary, middle, and high schools to attend. School assignment can be decided by choice process (with no default home school), which considers capacity in addition to choice. Simply allowing choice may let some of the capacity issues to resolve themselves. But it gives longer term flexibility for moving students from overcrowded schools to less crowded ones (and then back 15 years later when the neighborhood shifts.)


I think this is a great idea. I've always wondered why they don't have a DCC concept anywhere else in the county. But I especially like the idea of not having a fixed school based on your neighborhood.

What is so great ? The idea of community schools is to create community. By everyone being bused everywhere that is lost.seeing your neighbors at school, participating in school, events together is what creates that,
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This. It will be really interesting to see what they do with SV and the impacted schools. It's going to be ugly so get your popcorn ready, folks.


It was always going to be ugly, because of the contingents from the Clarksburg and Northwest clusters who want Clarksburg and Northwest to be segregated high schools, and the poor kids should all go to Seneca Valley for their own good due to geographic proximity. There was already quite enough of that with the Hallie Wells MS boundary study, and even with the original Clarksburg HS boundary study. Just because we're in the Siberian Hinterlands doesn't mean we can't be every bit as nasty as parents in Bethesda, Potomac, and North Potomac.


Well I get why they'd be pissed. No reason to bus kids 2 or 3 exits over to the other town just to fulfill the MCPS agenda.


Kids are not getting bused on exits, this is not a town-based school system, and the reason they're angry is that they don't want their kids in schools with poor kids - i.e., they want segregated schools. But segregated schools are bad for everyone, and MCPS should do what it can to reduce segregation.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This. It will be really interesting to see what they do with SV and the impacted schools. It's going to be ugly so get your popcorn ready, folks.


It was always going to be ugly, because of the contingents from the Clarksburg and Northwest clusters who want Clarksburg and Northwest to be segregated high schools, and the poor kids should all go to Seneca Valley for their own good due to geographic proximity. There was already quite enough of that with the Hallie Wells MS boundary study, and even with the original Clarksburg HS boundary study. Just because we're in the Siberian Hinterlands doesn't mean we can't be every bit as nasty as parents in Bethesda, Potomac, and North Potomac.


Well I get why they'd be pissed. No reason to bus kids 2 or 3 exits over to the other town just to fulfill the MCPS agenda.


Kids are not getting bused on exits, this is not a town-based school system, and the reason they're angry is that they don't want their kids in schools with poor kids - i.e., they want segregated schools. But segregated schools are bad for everyone, and MCPS should do what it can to reduce segregation.


Not sure we can say that NW and Clarksburg are segregated schools
Those schools are one of the most diverse on the county.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:

Not sure we can say that NW and Clarksburg are segregated schools
Those schools are one of the most diverse on the county.


Hallie Wells MS: 17% FARMs
Rocky Hill MS: 22% FARMs
Neelsville MS: 63% FARMs
Roberto Clemente MS: 33% FARMs (that's with both magnet programs)
MLK MS: 48% FARMs
Kingsview MS: 20% FARMs
Lakelands Park MS: 23% FARMs

Clarksburg HS: 27% FARMs (that includes Fox Chapel ES (58% FARMs) and Daly ES (71% FARMs))
Seneca Valley HS: 37% FARMs
Northwest HS: 24% FARMs

Yes, we can say that they're segregated. Or, in any case, segregated enough that the affluent parents want the poor kids to go somewhere else as much as possible.

Look at the current service area maps:

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/ClarksburgHS.pdf
http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/SenecaValleyHS.pdf
http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/NorthwestHS.pdf

And the argument the affluent parents will make in public for segregated schools will be geographic proximity and community schools. In private, I'm guessing that the main argument will be property values, followed by gangs.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Not sure we can say that NW and Clarksburg are segregated schools
Those schools are one of the most diverse on the county.


Hallie Wells MS: 17% FARMs
Rocky Hill MS: 22% FARMs
Neelsville MS: 63% FARMs
Roberto Clemente MS: 33% FARMs (that's with both magnet programs)
MLK MS: 48% FARMs
Kingsview MS: 20% FARMs
Lakelands Park MS: 23% FARMs

Clarksburg HS: 27% FARMs (that includes Fox Chapel ES (58% FARMs) and Daly ES (71% FARMs))
Seneca Valley HS: 37% FARMs
Northwest HS: 24% FARMs

Yes, we can say that they're segregated. Or, in any case, segregated enough that the affluent parents want the poor kids to go somewhere else as much as possible.

Look at the current service area maps:

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/ClarksburgHS.pdf
http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/SenecaValleyHS.pdf
http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/NorthwestHS.pdf

And the argument the affluent parents will make in public for segregated schools will be geographic proximity and community schools. In private, I'm guessing that the main argument will be property values, followed by gangs.



Please provide any evidence that busing will accomplish the goals of decreasing the achievement gap?
http://www.bipps.org/busing-jefferson-county-schools-work/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/school-busing-civil-rights-121077

Where it does work -
https://www.csmonitor.com/EqualEd/2017/0225/Where-busing-works
"Families can choose to apply to magnet schools, attend their neighborhood school, or sign up for a busing program to other districts."

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:


Please provide any evidence that busing will accomplish the goals of decreasing the achievement gap?
http://www.bipps.org/busing-jefferson-county-schools-work/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/school-busing-civil-rights-121077

Where it does work -
https://www.csmonitor.com/EqualEd/2017/0225/Where-busing-works
"Families can choose to apply to magnet schools, attend their neighborhood school, or sign up for a busing program to other districts."



First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Please provide any evidence that busing will accomplish the goals of decreasing the achievement gap?
http://www.bipps.org/busing-jefferson-county-schools-work/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/school-busing-civil-rights-121077

Where it does work -
https://www.csmonitor.com/EqualEd/2017/0225/Where-busing-works
"Families can choose to apply to magnet schools, attend their neighborhood school, or sign up for a busing program to other districts."



First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.


Why is this the only reason that there is a achievement gap ?

There are multiple factors such as first generation school attendance, limited English, family situations, lack of extra education supports are just a few. Please explain how busing is going to solve any if that. Spend the money on adding the supports necessary so that kids who need extra help get it not spending money on buses. There is no magic Bullet and it seems that MCPS views it as such. It is a complicated multi layered problem that needs multiple prongs of ideas and action.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Please provide any evidence that busing will accomplish the goals of decreasing the achievement gap?
http://www.bipps.org/busing-jefferson-county-schools-work/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/school-busing-civil-rights-121077

Where it does work -
https://www.csmonitor.com/EqualEd/2017/0225/Where-busing-works
"Families can choose to apply to magnet schools, attend their neighborhood school, or sign up for a busing program to other districts."



First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.


Why is this the only reason that there is a achievement gap ?

There are multiple factors such as first generation school attendance, limited English, family situations, lack of extra education supports are just a few. Please explain how busing is going to solve any if that. Spend the money on adding the supports necessary so that kids who need extra help get it not spending money on buses. There is no magic Bullet and it seems that MCPS views it as such. It is a complicated multi layered problem that needs multiple prongs of ideas and action.


First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.
Anonymous
First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.


I'm not the PP you are questioning but I'll respond. Schools that are segregated by SES or race due to where people freely choose to live are neither good not bad. They simply exist. It is not the school system's job to actively promote or discourage where anyone chooses to live. The sole job of the school system is to provide a good education to any and all students that walk in the door. Their resources to do this include the quality of the teachers, administrators, curriculum, and programs to meet the variety needs that students will present. MCPS does have many of these programs but always falls flat in executing their ideas and programs. There is far too much waste and incompetence being hidden behind the "impossible to solve achievement gap".

It appears that MCPS only defines diversity as low performing AA and Hispanic students. It ignores asian students and the many diverse ethnic groups that perform perfectly well and spends way too much time looking at white kids as some type of resource rather than students. A school system should not be concerned with white flight or finding ways to draw white people into an area. The students ARE NOT the systems' little pawns to be used as a hopeful quick fix to avoid the hard work of actually educating all the students.

The research studies that show low SES students improve when placed in high performing schools also are VERY clear that there is a tipping point. This only works when the number of low performing kids joining the school is low. Once the ratio increases, any gains are lost and the studies show that average to above average students decline. Some of the studies have also been done across school boundaries where a school with a high poverty rate has low resources. This is far from the case in MCPS as the schools with high poverty receive substantially more resources.

If you look at MCPS own long range planning forecast and the FARMS/race distribution across the county, it quickly becomes clear that trying to sprinkle white kids around the county to solve the achievement problems isn't going to work for anyone. By 2025, MCPS is projecting to be only 28% white following year after year decline. The asian and AA population is relatively steady and the hispanic population is growing fastest. The FARMS rate (inclusive of kids who have been on FARMS) hovers around 40%. The poverty level is higher as some transient families or very poor families not wishing to seek FARMs assistance don't submit the forms. Its no longer 1990 and MCPS is no longer a school system with a wealthy, highly educated parent population. Its gone and not coming back.

So rather than waste money and focus on bussing kids around or "eyeing" high performing elementary schools to bus the kids far from home why not hire some people that know how to run a school system and address the needs of the growing hispanic community? I have heard that Texas has had some good success with full Spanish immersion schools. Many CA schools use technology more effectively to assist students, track progress and intervene when needed. Cristo Rey has phenomenal success with at risk teens. Why not really focus on making a predominantly poor and low performing school steadily improve on its own achievement? Imagine if you had a school system that didn't think educating poor AA and hispanic students was so futile that the only option was to hide them behind white kids? Imagine if you had a school system that enabled the low performing schools to turn it around and climb up the ranks without bussing in white kids. Wouldn't that be amazing? Its entirely possible but it requires hard work, creative thinking and dedication -things that are sorely missing from the MCPS central office.
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