APS Elementary Location Working Group 4/12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:From following this whole thing way too closely, I'm getting the impression that staff have two main objectives in school location:

1. Get an option school in the western corner of the county - apparently Nottingham is now the frontrunner.
2. Turn Key into a neighborhood school.

If they can't get these two things to happen, they will have to draw very strange and stringy neighborhood boundary lines. I think they would just switch them if they weren't concerned about getting native Spanish speakers to sign up to go to Nottingham.

I think this is correct. This has certiainly been my impression, also from following it way to closely. Those are the motivating factors- the excess seats in the West when Reed comes on line, and the seat deficit in the East (where Key is). But they are trying to come up with criteria and be disciplined about the whole thing- they are trying to make sure they are not accidently missing something.

So then what do you think the potential moves are? I can't imagine they will actually move more than two schools because of the cost.

I think Immersion to ATS and ATS to Nottingham. ATS has the longest wait list, so it is the most likely to fill up no matter where it is actually placed in the county.

But are they adding on to the ATS building? Because there are over 700 students at Key now, and I think the majority would follow the school. I thin it would be bad to move a bigger school into a smaller building, right? Don't they need a closer match?

Apparently ATS can grow to 750 with trailers per the reports and the site is more accessible to Spanish speakers than ASFS or Nottingham.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:re Campbell and expeditionary learning:

The concept of expeditionary learning is not tied to the nature center and wetlands. Campbell uses these resources well in their program, but if the school has to move, they can develop new expeditions and projects.

On Montessori numbers:

The application numbers for this year assume Montessori will still be at Drew for 2018-2019 school year, correct? I'm not sure those can be used as a proxy for when the school is at a more accessible location, as it will be at Henry. Also, I thought the assumption was that most of the Montessori program came out of the pre-school program- do they have to apply for K? Or do they just move up?

They must apply. They are getting a spot, but they must still apply.

Then why didn't they?

My guess is that they are excited about the new neighborhood STEM Drew with a principal with a great track record. A lot of those kids in the Montessori program came from the Drew neighborhood, opting into Montessori, because it was perceived as better, now they are opting to stay. They don't want to bus to a construction site? Drew is a beautiful school inside, with wonderful gardens and a meadow in its center like a courtyard. It is definitely the nicer building compared to the Henry building.

Because they're not committed to the instructional model, or they live in north Arlington and are zoned for a high performing neighborhood school, or any number of reasons. But there is no large contingent of Nauck families in primary Montessori that are bailing on the instructional model to roll the dice on Drew.

Nauck resident here. This is my perception. I'm optimistic about Drew, more so than many who post on this board and who I know in real life, but we're sticking with Montessori. And my neighbors are trying to get in.

Also, I may be misunderstanding the discussion but I don't think the PK kids have to apply for a K spot if they are already in Drew PK Montessori. My child didn't anyway, and is now in K. PK kids coming from satellite Montessori programs may have to apply, I don't know.

[Anonymous]

I understand the arguments for moving immersion from Key to the current ATS site. But aside from the building's small size, the school is actually further west than Claremont! Would Claremont become the "east" immersion school, then?

I have to constantly refer to the map because I don't have a clear picture of where all the schools really are in relation to each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did they really say they could fit 750 kids at the ASFS site? Did I read that correctly?

Bumping this question. Am I reading this correctly? 750?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From following this whole thing way too closely, I'm getting the impression that staff have two main objectives in school location:

1. Get an option school in the western corner of the county - apparently Nottingham is now the frontrunner.
2. Turn Key into a neighborhood school.

If they can't get these two things to happen, they will have to draw very strange and stringy neighborhood boundary lines. I think they would just switch them if they weren't concerned about getting native Spanish speakers to sign up to go to Nottingham.

I think this is correct. This has certiainly been my impression, also from following it way to closely. Those are the motivating factors- the excess seats in the West when Reed comes on line, and the seat deficit in the East (where Key is). But they are trying to come up with criteria and be disciplined about the whole thing- they are trying to make sure they are not accidently missing something.

So then what do you think the potential moves are? I can't imagine they will actually move more than two schools because of the cost.

I think Immersion to ATS and ATS to Nottingham. ATS has the longest wait list, so it is the most likely to fill up no matter where it is actually placed in the county.

But are they adding on to the ATS building? Because there are over 700 students at Key now, and I think the majority would follow the school. I thin it would be bad to move a bigger school into a smaller building, right? Don't they need a closer match?

Apparently ATS can grow to 750 with trailers per the reports and the site is more accessible to Spanish speakers than ASFS or Nottingham.

Growing ATS or any option school to 750 gradually and as needed is different than moving a program from a building that mostly houses your school into a field of trailers overnight.

[Anonymous]

People from Campbell who are referring to Title I status seem to forget that the SB made changes this year to remove neighborhood preferences from all option schools. That means any option schools can move ANYWHERE.

Furthermore, Expeditionary Learning can be modified for various expeditions based on where the school is located. The Wetlands is cool, but not necessary to EL. Won’t that be an amazing gift when Campbell is a neighborhood school.

All of us need to realize that our kids won’t be in elementary forever. Moving boundaries is fine and we can all benefit from the care and investments made to each school by earlier generations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From following this whole thing way too closely, I'm getting the impression that staff have two main objectives in school location:

1. Get an option school in the western corner of the county - apparently Nottingham is now the frontrunner.
2. Turn Key into a neighborhood school.

If they can't get these two things to happen, they will have to draw very strange and stringy neighborhood boundary lines. I think they would just switch them if they weren't concerned about getting native Spanish speakers to sign up to go to Nottingham.

I think this is correct. This has certiainly been my impression, also from following it way to closely. Those are the motivating factors- the excess seats in the West when Reed comes on line, and the seat deficit in the East (where Key is). But they are trying to come up with criteria and be disciplined about the whole thing- they are trying to make sure they are not accidently missing something.

So then what do you think the potential moves are? I can't imagine they will actually move more than two schools because of the cost.

I think Immersion to ATS and ATS to Nottingham. ATS has the longest wait list, so it is the most likely to fill up no matter where it is actually placed in the county.

But are they adding on to the ATS building? Because there are over 700 students at Key now, and I think the majority would follow the school. I thin it would be bad to move a bigger school into a smaller building, right? Don't they need a closer match?

Apparently ATS can grow to 750 with trailers per the reports and the site is more accessible to Spanish speakers than ASFS or Nottingham.

Growing ATS or any option school to 750 gradually and as needed is different than moving a program from a building that mostly houses your school into a field of trailers overnight.

I understand your point, but it's a choice to go to the program. What is your recommendation for the immersion program and why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AT$ and Claremont stay as-is
Immersion to ASFS
Expeditionary learning to Nottingham. They have to put something there and at least it has that "exploration courtyard". But nature center partnership is a problem.

But key zone still hasn’t over capacity problem b/c of lottery only change.

So will SB make both Key ASFS neighborhood school, move immersion to ATS site, and Traditional to Nottingham

OR

The plan above, and bleed off excess students from Key to Glebe, Taylor, and Long Branch?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t see the point of switching Carlin springs and Campbell. Both are small schools. Carlin springs is not much bigger than Campbell

Carlin Springs if 585 capacity v. Campbell's 436. I'd consider 150 students significant. Plus, there is a lot of open green space on the Kenmore site.........

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montessori may not move next year or 2020 but by 2023 it will have too. The career center is happening. Seats are going there for H.S. regardless of how it’s developed. hSchools need 3000 + seats. Demand for Montessori is down, it may bump slightly with the Fleet move but not enough to justify it taking the only realistic space for more H School seats and a 4th Comprehensive High School. There are lots of moving pieces and it’s not just elementary boundaries that are being debated and drawn right now.

It's never going to be a comprehensive HS. Stop trying to make Fetch happen.

Comprehensive school or not, if another 2000 secondary seats are needed, that's where they will ultimately go. SB doesn't have the guts to fight Glencarlyn to put a comprehensive high school at Kenmore. So, if that many secondary students are at the Career Center site, Montessori needs to move. Comprehensive or not, the working group has pretty broad agreement that 3,000 high school students need to have recreational facilities; so fields will be needed and the Henry building will need to make way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What neighborhood does talento live in? She cited concerns about traffic patterns that sounded like a personal agenda.

I think she lives by W&L. I think she was very swayed by the Glen Carlin Neighborhood and their traffic concerns surrounding the use of the Kenmore site. She brings this up a lot and has really internalized it.
I tend to agree with Nancy V-D on this one- its a congested community, all sites in Arlington are going to have trouble with a new school.

Tannia T. will use any excuse possible to prevent ANY changes to the Carlin Springs community. But at least some degree of sense is going to have to win out at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:600 kids are not walking to Reed. Fake News. Look at report. 310 kids are walking to Reed. 415 are riding a bus. That's 7 buses. Not that walkable friends.

You consider more than 40% walkers "not that walkable?"!!!!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Campbell would lose 60 percent of its student or more if moved that far north. No longer title I. No nature center curriculum. It would be a total waste of a school. I have a kid there and without the wetland and nature center the curriculum would be trashed. Aps might as well eliminate the program if they move it. I would pull my kid because it would have no value as an option school. I know others would too, and not just the majority of low income families. The wealthier families chose the school for a reason.

What about moving it to Carlin Springs? Serious question. Isn't that still a 'walking' field trip to Long Branch nature center?

Other problem that no one seems to be addressing is that the Campbell building is tiny! To reach a capacity similar to what Carlin Springs has you would have to cover the field space with trailers!!

Given that this would largely be moving the Carlin Springs neighborhood to Campbell- Carlin Springs currently has a population of about 600. Campbell's 'optimization' suggests it can go to 628.

Incidentally- given the lack of space to expand is what is sinking Campbell is an option site. The Staff thinks option sites need to be able to go to 750.

This. Campbell can go to 628 students per APS and Carlin Springs to 928 - per APS!!

But there aren't 900 kids wanting to go to Campbell, are there? There aren't even 750, and I think they stated they considered growing this program up to around 650, not 750. Or did they change that?

No, there aren’t. Of the 5 option programs the demand is the second lowest. If you eliminated the people fleeing Carlin Springs attendance zone (180?) it would be even less...

There are like 52 and 56 kids per grade in the upper grades at Campbell. Although APS has made it a new requirement that all option schools can grow to 750, the demand is just not there for Campbell (and Montessori).

A good portion of Campbell is taken by multiple VPI classes. If there were fewer preschool classes, they could provide more classes per grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montessori may not move next year or 2020 but by 2023 it will have too. The career center is happening. Seats are going there for H.S. regardless of how it’s developed. hSchools need 3000 + seats. Demand for Montessori is down, it may bump slightly with the Fleet move but not enough to justify it taking the only realistic space for more H School seats and a 4th Comprehensive High School. There are lots of moving pieces and it’s not just elementary boundaries that are being debated and drawn right now.

It's never going to be a comprehensive HS. Stop trying to make Fetch happen.

Comprehensive school or not, if another 2000 secondary seats are needed, that's where they will ultimately go. SB doesn't have the guts to fight Glencarlyn to put a comprehensive high school at Kenmore. So, if that many secondary students are at the Career Center site, Montessori needs to move. Comprehensive or not, the working group has pretty broad agreement that 3,000 high school students need to have recreational facilities; so fields will be needed and the Henry building will need to make way.

I truly can not wait for Glen Carly to be rezoned to Wakefield. F them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Campbell would lose 60 percent of its student or more if moved that far north. No longer title I. No nature center curriculum. It would be a total waste of a school. I have a kid there and without the wetland and nature center the curriculum would be trashed. Aps might as well eliminate the program if they move it. I would pull my kid because it would have no value as an option school. I know others would too, and not just the majority of low income families. The wealthier families chose the school for a reason.

What about moving it to Carlin Springs? Serious question. Isn't that still a 'walking' field trip to Long Branch nature center?

Other problem that no one seems to be addressing is that the Campbell building is tiny! To reach a capacity similar to what Carlin Springs has you would have to cover the field space with trailers!!

Given that this would largely be moving the Carlin Springs neighborhood to Campbell- Carlin Springs currently has a population of about 600. Campbell's 'optimization' suggests it can go to 628.

Incidentally- given the lack of space to expand is what is sinking Campbell is an option site. The Staff thinks option sites need to be able to go to 750.

This. Campbell can go to 628 students per APS and Carlin Springs to 928 - per APS!!

But there aren't 900 kids wanting to go to Campbell, are there? There aren't even 750, and I think they stated they considered growing this program up to around 650, not 750. Or did they change that?

No, there aren’t. Of the 5 option programs the demand is the second lowest. If you eliminated the people fleeing Carlin Springs attendance zone (180?) it would be even less...

There are like 52 and 56 kids per grade in the upper grades at Campbell. Although APS has made it a new requirement that all option schools can grow to 750, the demand is just not there for Campbell (and Montessori).

A good portion of Campbell is taken by multiple VPI classes. If there were fewer preschool classes, they could provide more classes per grade level.

They have already said every option school will have VPI classes. That's part of the policy and is not changing, AFAIK.

It's also a reason why many kids that live in the current Campbell walk zone are already students at Campbell, and always will be students at any school on that site, even if it is an option school.