6 Baltimore public schools where not a single student tested "proficient"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Really - no one? Work under the table selling prescription pills, weed, selling stolen loot out of their car, lawn care, babysitting, etc.. If there is no documentation of work, they are considered unemployed. You can make as much money as you want under the table and still get assisted housing, stamps, and more. Most new developments have to set aside about 10-15% low income housing. The apartments are very nice. Stripped of all the upgrades yes, but still new.

That's in Montgomery County -- it's a county program. It's the Moderately-Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) program. If you're poor, you don't qualify for it.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are you Eligible?

And again -- I'm putting it in all caps to stand out -- MOST POOR FAMILIES DO NOT GET HOUSING ASSISTANCE.

Now, if the argument is that it's possible to have undeclared income -- well, that goes for everybody, doesn't it? Rich, middle-class, and poor. I've paid plenty of middle-class people in cash. I haven't asked whether they declare the income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really - no one? Work under the table selling prescription pills, weed, selling stolen loot out of their car, lawn care, babysitting, etc.. If there is no documentation of work, they are considered unemployed. You can make as much money as you want under the table and still get assisted housing, stamps, and more. Most new developments have to set aside about 10-15% low income housing. The apartments are very nice. Stripped of all the upgrades yes, but still new.

That's in Montgomery County -- it's a county program. It's the Moderately-Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) program. If you're poor, you don't qualify for it.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are you Eligible?

And again -- I'm putting it in all caps to stand out -- MOST POOR FAMILIES DO NOT GET HOUSING ASSISTANCE.

Now, if the argument is that it's possible to have undeclared income -- well, that goes for everybody, doesn't it? Rich, middle-class, and poor. I've paid plenty of middle-class people in cash. I haven't asked whether they declare the income.

You need to expand your horizons.

In Alexandria City, we have plenty of public housing. Not Section 8 but actual public housing.
We also have Section 8.

Arlington Co has affordable housing. Fairfax Co does as well.

Statistically speaking, the report may be accurate that many poor families do not get the housing assistance for themselves but very often they live with someone who does. Grandma has a housing voucher, and she has a couple of her kids and their kids living with her. Doesn't matter that it is a 1 BR or maybe if they are a luck a 2BR and doesn't matter if it violates the rules. It happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really - no one? Work under the table selling prescription pills, weed, selling stolen loot out of their car, lawn care, babysitting, etc.. If there is no documentation of work, they are considered unemployed. You can make as much money as you want under the table and still get assisted housing, stamps, and more. Most new developments have to set aside about 10-15% low income housing. The apartments are very nice. Stripped of all the upgrades yes, but still new.

That's in Montgomery County -- it's a county program. It's the Moderately-Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) program. If you're poor, you don't qualify for it.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are you Eligible?

And again -- I'm putting it in all caps to stand out -- MOST POOR FAMILIES DO NOT GET HOUSING ASSISTANCE.

Now, if the argument is that it's possible to have undeclared income -- well, that goes for everybody, doesn't it? Rich, middle-class, and poor. I've paid plenty of middle-class people in cash. I haven't asked whether they declare the income.

You need to expand your horizons.

In Alexandria City, we have plenty of public housing. Not Section 8 but actual public housing.
We also have Section 8.

Arlington Co has affordable housing. Fairfax Co does as well.

Statistically speaking, the report may be accurate that many poor families do not get the housing assistance for themselves but very often they live with someone who does. Grandma has a housing voucher, and she has a couple of her kids and their kids living with her. Doesn't matter that it is a 1 BR or maybe if they are a luck a 2BR and doesn't matter if it violates the rules. It happens all the time.

The data about housing assistance applies to households, not individuals. Plus the argument was that girls have babies and then get free housing -- so Grandma, two kids, and their kids in a one-bedroom apartment wouldn't be relevant anyway.

But if you want to disregard the data, ok.

You can look up the comparable data for Virginia, or disregard it too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really - no one? Work under the table selling prescription pills, weed, selling stolen loot out of their car, lawn care, babysitting, etc.. If there is no documentation of work, they are considered unemployed. You can make as much money as you want under the table and still get assisted housing, stamps, and more. Most new developments have to set aside about 10-15% low income housing. The apartments are very nice. Stripped of all the upgrades yes, but still new.

That's in Montgomery County -- it's a county program. It's the Moderately-Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) program. If you're poor, you don't qualify for it.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are you Eligible?

And again -- I'm putting it in all caps to stand out -- MOST POOR FAMILIES DO NOT GET HOUSING ASSISTANCE.

Now, if the argument is that it's possible to have undeclared income -- well, that goes for everybody, doesn't it? Rich, middle-class, and poor. I've paid plenty of middle-class people in cash. I haven't asked whether they declare the income.

DP and this is OT, but who are you paying in cash?? Maybe an occasional babysitter, I guess? Daycare and aftercare have a Tax ID number so it's all above board. Our lawn service has an online system. Our friends who have nannies use an online Nanny Pay system.

If you work for the government or a contractor I always thought you could get in trouble for paying under the table. Do people really do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really - no one? Work under the table selling prescription pills, weed, selling stolen loot out of their car, lawn care, babysitting, etc.. If there is no documentation of work, they are considered unemployed. You can make as much money as you want under the table and still get assisted housing, stamps, and more. Most new developments have to set aside about 10-15% low income housing. The apartments are very nice. Stripped of all the upgrades yes, but still new.

That's in Montgomery County -- it's a county program. It's the Moderately-Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) program. If you're poor, you don't qualify for it.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are you Eligible?

And again -- I'm putting it in all caps to stand out -- MOST POOR FAMILIES DO NOT GET HOUSING ASSISTANCE.

Now, if the argument is that it's possible to have undeclared income -- well, that goes for everybody, doesn't it? Rich, middle-class, and poor. I've paid plenty of middle-class people in cash. I haven't asked whether they declare the income.

You need to expand your horizons.

In Alexandria City, we have plenty of public housing. Not Section 8 but actual public housing.
We also have Section 8.

Arlington Co has affordable housing. Fairfax Co does as well.

Statistically speaking, the report may be accurate that many poor families do not get the housing assistance for themselves but very often they live with someone who does. Grandma has a housing voucher, and she has a couple of her kids and their kids living with her. Doesn't matter that it is a 1 BR or maybe if they are a luck a 2BR and doesn't matter if it violates the rules. It happens all the time.

The data about housing assistance applies to households, not individuals. Plus the argument was that girls have babies and then get free housing -- so Grandma, two kids, and their kids in a one-bedroom apartment wouldn't be relevant anyway.

But if you want to disregard the data, ok.

You can look up the comparable data for Virginia, or disregard it too.

That is not the argument being made. I was pointing out that girls living in poverty who are on the cusp of young adulthood face choices that in my upper middle class lifestyle I nor my children will ever have to consider.

These young women are going to be expected to get a job to help start supporting whatever family they are living with. That part time job at Burger King is expected to pay household expenses. That's way different than my child getting a retail job where the money he/she earns would go towards whatever my kid wanted.

When they are looking at adulthood and choices, how do they afford an apartment on min wage? How do they afford to feed themselves?

It's not about getting free housing, it's about having to make choices that will give them basic needs. Can you imagine how scary it must be to realize that you are almost 18, your parents are pretty much saying you need to get out and support yourself, you have no idea how to do that or what it entails so you looks around to your friends and they start telling you how they did it and you suddenly see a way out of your predicament.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't think that housed, fed, non-poor kids would do better in school -- however you measure it, including test scores -- than kids in families housing insecurity or homelessness, food insecurity, and a chronic lack of money for needed things?

You don't think that people would be better parents if they didn't have to deal with housing insecurity or homeless, food insecurity, and a chronic lack of money for needed things?

The research isn't clear. There's an old study in MoCo that placed families entering the homeless systems into housing in two areas: a good area, and a not so good area. The families that were housed in the better area fared better overall (shocking, right?). But don't forget: the other families were housed, provided income support, job training, etc. too...but their kids didn't actually do better. Why? Bad neighborhood. Which translates into expectations and cultural norms. So, how do you fix the Baltimore situation...when the problems are endemic to most of the city and generations old? It's not as simple as providing housing vouchers and food stamps...which many of the students already have.

+1
It feels like a hopeless issue to solve. There are so many smart, bright kids who get mixed up with the 'wrong crowd' and there is a lot of 'wrong crowd' people so where to go from there?

[Anonymous]

Most of the bright kids are recognized by teachers, etc and are funneled into better schools (Poly, City, etc) or the Ingenuity Project.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really - no one? Work under the table selling prescription pills, weed, selling stolen loot out of their car, lawn care, babysitting, etc.. If there is no documentation of work, they are considered unemployed. You can make as much money as you want under the table and still get assisted housing, stamps, and more. Most new developments have to set aside about 10-15% low income housing. The apartments are very nice. Stripped of all the upgrades yes, but still new.

That's in Montgomery County -- it's a county program. It's the Moderately-Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) program. If you're poor, you don't qualify for it.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are you Eligible?

And again -- I'm putting it in all caps to stand out -- MOST POOR FAMILIES DO NOT GET HOUSING ASSISTANCE.

Now, if the argument is that it's possible to have undeclared income -- well, that goes for everybody, doesn't it? Rich, middle-class, and poor. I've paid plenty of middle-class people in cash. I haven't asked whether they declare the income.

You need to expand your horizons.

In Alexandria City, we have plenty of public housing. Not Section 8 but actual public housing.
We also have Section 8.

Arlington Co has affordable housing. Fairfax Co does as well.

Statistically speaking, the report may be accurate that many poor families do not get the housing assistance for themselves but very often they live with someone who does. Grandma has a housing voucher, and she has a couple of her kids and their kids living with her. Doesn't matter that it is a 1 BR or maybe if they are a luck a 2BR and doesn't matter if it violates the rules. It happens all the time.

The data about housing assistance applies to households, not individuals. Plus the argument was that girls have babies and then get free housing -- so Grandma, two kids, and their kids in a one-bedroom apartment wouldn't be relevant anyway.

But if you want to disregard the data, ok.

You can look up the comparable data for Virginia, or disregard it too.

That is not the argument being made. I was pointing out that girls living in poverty who are on the cusp of young adulthood face choices that in my upper middle class lifestyle I nor my children will ever have to consider.

These young women are going to be expected to get a job to help start supporting whatever family they are living with. That part time job at Burger King is expected to pay household expenses. That's way different than my child getting a retail job where the money he/she earns would go towards whatever my kid wanted.

When they are looking at adulthood and choices, how do they afford an apartment on min wage? How do they afford to feed themselves?

It's not about getting free housing, it's about having to make choices that will give them basic needs. Can you imagine how scary it must be to realize that you are almost 18, your parents are pretty much saying you need to get out and support yourself, you have no idea how to do that or what it entails so you looks around to your friends and they start telling you how they did it and you suddenly see a way out of your predicament.

DP and I agree that this is not at all the argument being made here - that girls have babies and then get free housing.

The argument is that these girls see that if they do have more babies, they get more money for their households. They are making the decision based on the result that they are going see immediately. They're not thinking about how having extra babies will lead to more stress and more difficulty later.

That's why I feel so strongly that it's important to make it more attractive in these girls' eyes to NOT have more babies than it is to have more babies.

The fact that poor, unmarried, teenage girls are having multiple babies that they can't support does not benefit anyone. It makes their own lives harder. It makes the lives of their kids' harder. It means less resources at the schools, which makes the lives of their entire communities harder. It makes it more expensive for middle class taxpayers who are watching their own schools getting more and more overcrowded and who start to resent public assistance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really - no one? Work under the table selling prescription pills, weed, selling stolen loot out of their car, lawn care, babysitting, etc.. If there is no documentation of work, they are considered unemployed. You can make as much money as you want under the table and still get assisted housing, stamps, and more. Most new developments have to set aside about 10-15% low income housing. The apartments are very nice. Stripped of all the upgrades yes, but still new.

That's in Montgomery County -- it's a county program. It's the Moderately-Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) program. If you're poor, you don't qualify for it.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are you Eligible?

And again -- I'm putting it in all caps to stand out -- MOST POOR FAMILIES DO NOT GET HOUSING ASSISTANCE.

Now, if the argument is that it's possible to have undeclared income -- well, that goes for everybody, doesn't it? Rich, middle-class, and poor. I've paid plenty of middle-class people in cash. I haven't asked whether they declare the income.

You need to expand your horizons.

In Alexandria City, we have plenty of public housing. Not Section 8 but actual public housing.
We also have Section 8.

Arlington Co has affordable housing. Fairfax Co does as well.

Statistically speaking, the report may be accurate that many poor families do not get the housing assistance for themselves but very often they live with someone who does. Grandma has a housing voucher, and she has a couple of her kids and their kids living with her. Doesn't matter that it is a 1 BR or maybe if they are a luck a 2BR and doesn't matter if it violates the rules. It happens all the time.

The data about housing assistance applies to households, not individuals. Plus the argument was that girls have babies and then get free housing -- so Grandma, two kids, and their kids in a one-bedroom apartment wouldn't be relevant anyway.

But if you want to disregard the data, ok.

You can look up the comparable data for Virginia, or disregard it too.

That is not the argument being made. I was pointing out that girls living in poverty who are on the cusp of young adulthood face choices that in my upper middle class lifestyle I nor my children will ever have to consider.

These young women are going to be expected to get a job to help start supporting whatever family they are living with. That part time job at Burger King is expected to pay household expenses. That's way different than my child getting a retail job where the money he/she earns would go towards whatever my kid wanted.

When they are looking at adulthood and choices, how do they afford an apartment on min wage? How do they afford to feed themselves?

It's not about getting free housing, it's about having to make choices that will give them basic needs. Can you imagine how scary it must be to realize that you are almost 18, your parents are pretty much saying you need to get out and support yourself, you have no idea how to do that or what it entails so you looks around to your friends and they start telling you how they did it and you suddenly see a way out of your predicament.

Not to mention, that many of these girls are molested and sexualized early on. It is a sad, sad circumstance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The data about housing assistance applies to households, not individuals. Plus the argument was that girls have babies and then get free housing -- so Grandma, two kids, and their kids in a one-bedroom apartment wouldn't be relevant anyway.

But if you want to disregard the data, ok.

You can look up the comparable data for Virginia, or disregard it too.

That is not the argument being made. I was pointing out that girls living in poverty who are on the cusp of young adulthood face choices that in my upper middle class lifestyle I nor my children will ever have to consider.

These young women are going to be expected to get a job to help start supporting whatever family they are living with. That part time job at Burger King is expected to pay household expenses. That's way different than my child getting a retail job where the money he/she earns would go towards whatever my kid wanted.

When they are looking at adulthood and choices, how do they afford an apartment on min wage? How do they afford to feed themselves?

It's not about getting free housing, it's about having to make choices that will give them basic needs. Can you imagine how scary it must be to realize that you are almost 18, your parents are pretty much saying you need to get out and support yourself, you have no idea how to do that or what it entails so you looks around to your friends and they start telling you how they did it and you suddenly see a way out of your predicament.


The PP you're quoting seems to have no clue as to what life is actually like for these girls and what kinds of choices they are making. Statistics are fine, but they never tell the whole picture.

What we're doing now is obviously not working for anyone, but the PP's solution is to simply throw more money at the issue in the hopes that somehow that will make things different for the communities involved.

[Anonymous]

Lead poisoning is a huge issue in poor Baltimore areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lead poisoning is a huge issue in poor Baltimore areas.

That can't possibly account for all of it though. Children used to have much higher levels of lead in their blood ("one survey has shown that the mean blood lead concentration in children has dropped from 13.7 mg/l in 1976 to 3.2 mg/l in 1994 [Pirkle et al., 1994, cited by Needleman, 1998b]" from http://rachel.org/files/document/Lead_Poisoning_in_Historical_Perspective.pdf).

What we now consider high levels used to be pretty much nothing. Certainly it causes issues, but it's in combination with everything else the children in Baltimore have to deal with that it leads to such dire outcomes.

[Anonymous]

You can't teach kids who are -
*absent
*overweight and diabetic and thus, lethargic and falling asleep in class
*neglected
*abused
*in a gang for protection

Tell us, gurus, how teachers are expected to address the ills of society.

If anyone has an answer for us, please share.

[Anonymous]

This is why I send my kids to a school with very low FARMS rate. I pay extra for this neighborhood and we fight at the slightest attemp to change the borders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's so obvious that many posters here have no idea what life is like for these people. It is not like TV. Many women have babies bc they get more money. They push to have their children diagnosed with things like ADD bc they get more money every month- a significant amount that actually would make a difference to my family. And, yes, doctors diagnose things. Many of the kids are wild bc they do t know any better. Their parents sleep all day and the kids fend for themselves with no discipline. When I would work with these children in their homes the parents did not care. The fathers were not present or sleeping on the couch. The mothers were screaming at their other children or off somewhere else in the house. They did not want me there to try to help their children.

I've also worked with kids from this environment and this poster is sPOT ON. Not all families work this way, but too many.

It's terrible for kids and it's terrible for us because it truly feels like no matter what you do, this poor kid will never have a chance because the parents just can't do what they should be doing.

Yes, the moms have more babies because it means more funds. And yes they push for diagnoses.

Unfortunately no good solutions, but I do wish we would work harder to disincentivize lower income families from having more and more kids. Right now the system makes it seem like it's lucrative to have more and more kids.

Another poster who has worked with low income families here and I also agree but I will add this:
I have personally witnessed a mother telling a young daughter (11-13 year old) that she should get pregnant soon so they could get additional money every month. It's all about the money and not even a little bit about the kids. It's very sad.