How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we don't have to worry about sin then why did Jesus have to be crucified? We are all sinners. Homosexual acts are sin as are premarital sex and extramarital sex... Selfishness ... Lying...stealing, gossiping, swearing with Gods name . We all probably sin at least 10 times a day. Having a homosexual wedding ceremony probably takes it to outright rebellion levels against God similar to having a satanic wedding ceremony , but I'm sure those people probably don't care .

Of course sin is an issue. Yes, of course, we all agree that murder and greed and adultery and fighting (even fighting your enemy) are all "sins" that Jesus clearly defines in the gospels.

The problem here is that YOU are trying to define "sin" to include homosexuality, in a way that the rest of us don't find scriptural support for.
Jesus is NOT recorded as having talked about homosexuality, your reference to Leviticus seems hypocritical (put down that shellfish) and out of step with Jesus' own attitude to that book, and your attempt to take Paul as God's literal words is inconsistent with the poor man's own representation of himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who is ignoring the rest? Someone asked about a passage directly on homosexuality. They got it. Just b/c Jesus's death washes away the sins of the old testament doesn't mean he condones them. It doesn't give believers a free pass to sin as they want. It just means we are not condemned by them.

YOU are ignoring the rest of Leviticus. Do you eat shellfish? Do you wear wool-cotton blends? Then you're ignoring the rest of Leviticus and cherry-picking the anti-homosexual stuff. Why is this so hard? Have you read Leviticus?

How does what your saying disagree with my statements? Do you understand the meaning of Jesus? I don't mean this to be consending. I would be happy to explain then Jesus's meaning means to regarding the laws and ways of the Old Testament.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we don't have to worry about sin then why did Jesus have to be crucified? We are all sinners. Homosexual acts are sin as are premarital sex and extramarital sex... Selfishness ... Lying...stealing, gossiping, swearing with Gods name . We all probably sin at least 10 times a day. Having a homosexual wedding ceremony probably takes it to outright rebellion levels against God similar to having a satanic wedding ceremony , but I'm sure those people probably don't care .

Of course sin is an issue. Yes, of course, we all agree that murder and greed and adultery and fighting (even fighting your enemy) are all "sins" that Jesus clearly defines in the gospels.

The problem here is that YOU are trying to define "sin" to include homosexuality, in a way that the rest of us don't find scriptural support for.
Jesus is NOT recorded as having talked about homosexuality, your reference to Leviticus seems hypocritical (put down that shellfish) and out of step with Jesus' own attitude to that book, and your attempt to take Paul as God's literal words is inconsistent with the poor man's own representation of himself.

"ALL scripture is inspired by God." That includes Paul's incredible letters that he wrote in his missions to the new Christian churches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:P.S. Arguing with you feels exactly like arguing with Muslima.

Cherry-picking scripture? Check

Claiming "it's all about context" while seeming determined to ignore the actual context? Check

Deliberately missing the big picture, the broad message, of Jesus' words, so long as it conflicts with your position on a narrow issue? Check

And some people only like to hear the feel-good God is love sermon and don't like to hear about sins and facing them. Yes, Jesus was mostly about love and compassion. That doesn't mean Christians should ignore our sinful ways.

Haha. "Mostly."

Thank God -- truly, I thank Him -- for mainline Protestant reformed faiths that have moved beyond literalism and fundamentalism. God bless those churches whose doors are open to ALL, as Jesus intends.

+1. God's spirit is in these liberal churches, I truly believe that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we don't have to worry about sin then why did Jesus have to be crucified? We are all sinners. Homosexual acts are sin as are premarital sex and extramarital sex... Selfishness ... Lying...stealing, gossiping, swearing with Gods name . We all probably sin at least 10 times a day. Having a homosexual wedding ceremony probably takes it to outright rebellion levels against God similar to having a satanic wedding ceremony , but I'm sure those people probably don't care .

See... as someone who wasn't raised Christian, I never understood why Jesus has to be crucified in the first place. How does Jesus dying translate to forgiveness of sins? Couldn't God just forgive your sins himself? Why the son/middleman? What about all the thousands of other human beings who were crucified on a cross? Why did they have to die? What was the value in their suffering? Was their suffering less than Jesus, even though they underwent the same horrendous torture?

God came to earth as man. Jesus was the God-man. His first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding ( I love that). In the old covenant between God and man , God required sacrifices from his people in repentance for breaking the Ten Commandments . He doesn't just forgive because he wants people to care enough about him to want to obey him. People failed so much that God being a loving God and not wanting everyone to go to hell gave the gift of himself as a one time brutal sacrifice for all the sin of the world . All he asked was to believe in him and care enough to know how desperate your situation is. That's the cut off... If you don't care enough about God to even accept a free gift of salvation , then you are screwed when you die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we don't have to worry about sin then why did Jesus have to be crucified? We are all sinners. Homosexual acts are sin as are premarital sex and extramarital sex... Selfishness ... Lying...stealing, gossiping, swearing with Gods name . We all probably sin at least 10 times a day. Having a homosexual wedding ceremony probably takes it to outright rebellion levels against God similar to having a satanic wedding ceremony , but I'm sure those people probably don't care .

Of course sin is an issue. Yes, of course, we all agree that murder and greed and adultery and fighting (even fighting your enemy) are all "sins" that Jesus clearly defines in the gospels.

The problem here is that YOU are trying to define "sin" to include homosexuality, in a way that the rest of us don't find scriptural support for.
Jesus is NOT recorded as having talked about homosexuality, your reference to Leviticus seems hypocritical (put down that shellfish) and out of step with Jesus' own attitude to that book, and your attempt to take Paul as God's literal words is inconsistent with the poor man's own representation of himself.

"ALL scripture is inspired by God." That includes Paul's incredible letters that he wrote in his missions to the new Christian churches.

"Inspired" is very different from being the "literal word" of God. I hope you can see the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we don't have to worry about sin then why did Jesus have to be crucified? We are all sinners. Homosexual acts are sin as are premarital sex and extramarital sex... Selfishness ... Lying...stealing, gossiping, swearing with Gods name . We all probably sin at least 10 times a day. Having a homosexual wedding ceremony probably takes it to outright rebellion levels against God similar to having a satanic wedding ceremony , but I'm sure those people probably don't care .

See... as someone who wasn't raised Christian, I never understood why Jesus has to be crucified in the first place. How does Jesus dying translate to forgiveness of sins? Couldn't God just forgive your sins himself? Why the son/middleman? What about all the thousands of other human beings who were crucified on a cross? Why did they have to die? What was the value in their suffering? Was their suffering less than Jesus, even though they underwent the same horrendous torture?

Ok, this is a theologically complex question, but my understanding is that "sin" has a cost. It is like gravity in that it is part of the reality that God created us in. God could just magically erase sin, I guess, and God could also let us zoom around like Superman but that is not the reality we live in. God could also just make us love him and be perfect, but that is also not the reality we live in- we would just be robots in that case. We have free will, and one of the results of that is sin, and the cost of that sin is death and judgment. Jesus took on that penalty for us. Suffering is the cost of free will and sin. The world we live in is imperfect, which is why there can be great suffering all around us. But our suffering is trivial in the larger scheme of things- that eventually we will live in Heaven with God forever, if we believe in Jesus.

[Anonymous]

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

What part of this is not clear to some of you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we don't have to worry about sin then why did Jesus have to be crucified? We are all sinners. Homosexual acts are sin as are premarital sex and extramarital sex... Selfishness ... Lying...stealing, gossiping, swearing with Gods name . We all probably sin at least 10 times a day. Having a homosexual wedding ceremony probably takes it to outright rebellion levels against God similar to having a satanic wedding ceremony , but I'm sure those people probably don't care .

Of course sin is an issue. Yes, of course, we all agree that murder and greed and adultery and fighting (even fighting your enemy) are all "sins" that Jesus clearly defines in the gospels.

The problem here is that YOU are trying to define "sin" to include homosexuality, in a way that the rest of us don't find scriptural support for.
Jesus is NOT recorded as having talked about homosexuality, your reference to Leviticus seems hypocritical (put down that shellfish) and out of step with Jesus' own attitude to that book, and your attempt to take Paul as God's literal words is inconsistent with the poor man's own representation of himself.

Not homosexuality ...homosexual sodomy is the sin . As is premarital sex, extramarital sex, sodomy , lying, saying G.. Damn it, treating others less than you treat yourself..

[Anonymous]

Here comes the "shell fish" argument again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who is ignoring the rest? Someone asked about a passage directly on homosexuality. They got it. Just b/c Jesus's death washes away the sins of the old testament doesn't mean he condones them. It doesn't give believers a free pass to sin as they want. It just means we are not condemned by them.

YOU are ignoring the rest of Leviticus. Do you eat shellfish? Do you wear wool-cotton blends? Then you're ignoring the rest of Leviticus and cherry-picking the anti-homosexual stuff. Why is this so hard? Have you read Leviticus?

How does what your saying disagree with my statements? Do you understand the meaning of Jesus? I don't mean this to be consending. I would be happy to explain then Jesus's meaning means to regarding the laws and ways of the Old Testament.

Thanks, but I don't think you have a clue about Jesus' relationship to the Old Testament. Do you understand why the Pharisees hated him? Why he was crucified? Because he overthrew nearly everything they stood for, all the rituals and customs they were in charge of interpreting and enforcing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

But what exactly is it, that makes it a sin? Is it the non-procreative sex? Is it two people sharing the same chromosomes being in a close, intimate, but non-sexual relationship? If so, lots of close friendships among same-sex friends may be called into question.

Or, the non-procreative sex of heterosexual couples. What exactly is the sin line?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we don't have to worry about sin then why did Jesus have to be crucified? We are all sinners. Homosexual acts are sin as are premarital sex and extramarital sex... Selfishness ... Lying...stealing, gossiping, swearing with Gods name . We all probably sin at least 10 times a day. Having a homosexual wedding ceremony probably takes it to outright rebellion levels against God similar to having a satanic wedding ceremony , but I'm sure those people probably don't care .

Of course sin is an issue. Yes, of course, we all agree that murder and greed and adultery and fighting (even fighting your enemy) are all "sins" that Jesus clearly defines in the gospels.

The problem here is that YOU are trying to define "sin" to include homosexuality, in a way that the rest of us don't find scriptural support for.
Jesus is NOT recorded as having talked about homosexuality, your reference to Leviticus seems hypocritical (put down that shellfish) and out of step with Jesus' own attitude to that book, and your attempt to take Paul as God's literal words is inconsistent with the poor man's own representation of himself.

You keep talking about how unimportant Paul is, but your characterization is not consistent with the Bible. You just keep saying it over and over without proving that it is true. Where does the Bible say that we do not have to take Paul literally?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:P.S. Arguing with you feels exactly like arguing with Muslima.

Cherry-picking scripture? Check

Claiming "it's all about context" while seeming determined to ignore the actual context? Check

Deliberately missing the big picture, the broad message, of Jesus' words, so long as it conflicts with your position on a narrow issue? Check

And some people only like to hear the feel-good God is love sermon and don't like to hear about sins and facing them. Yes, Jesus was mostly about love and compassion. That doesn't mean Christians should ignore our sinful ways.

Haha. "Mostly."

Thank God -- truly, I thank Him -- for mainline Protestant reformed faiths that have moved beyond literalism and fundamentalism. God bless those churches whose doors are open to ALL, as Jesus intends.

+1. God's spirit is in these liberal churches, I truly believe that

Okay, so why are they declining so quickly? Why have they lost a third of their membership in just 20 years, while Conservative denominations/non-denominational churches have grown?