How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same reason I don't think eating shrimp is a sin.

OP here- have you read the Bible? Eating shrimp and homosexuality are surely not equivalent. It is clearly written in the New Testament that you can eat what you want:

‘Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” (Acts 10:13-15)

‘(hypocritical liars)… order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.’ (1 Timothy 4:2-5)

But homosexuality is different:

Romans 1:18-27New International Version (NIV)

God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

‘It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honourable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. (1 Thessalonians 4:3-7)

You guys comparing homosexuality to blended fabrics and shrimp have missed the issue here.

Your quotes are from Paul again. Some think Paul was divinely inspired. But he most definitely was not Jesus, in fact he's not even counted as a "prophet" (he called himself a disciple). Taking his every word literally is elevating him to a status that he didn't claim for himself.

PS, I think you've missed the point. Jesus lifted most Old Testament bans--yes, including shellfish and blended fabrics. So we're starting over; the ground has totally shifted; and it's not necessarily OK to assume that everything in the Old Testament is still valid. Jesus cared enough about adultery to condemn it, but he never mentioned homosexuality.

Jesus' focus was on peace, loving your enemy, sharing your worldly goods, and so on. That's a focus that's meaningful to me, instead of worrying about who's sleeping with who. As others here have said, Jesus got away from all the bean counting and to a larger message of acceptance and love.

[Anonymous]

I agree with those who don't believe it is a sin at all. Buy even among those who believe that "a sin is a sin is a sin," every sin may be equally a sin, but the Bible taken as a whole shows that God is much more concerned about some sins than others. For example, Jesus says nothing at all about homosexuality, quite a bit about adultery, and a TON about money. In the Old Testament, it's a TON about idolatry, which most modern day folks aren't really all that concerned with...we might talk about "what's an idol in your life" every now and then but we certainly don't give it the same emphasis as the Old Testament does. And churches certainly talk about money during stewardship campaigns and a few other times but not nearly as much as Jesus does in the Gospels. So even if you DO believe that homosexuality is a sin, I just don't think you can claim that God cares as much about it as a few other sins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same reason I don't think eating shrimp is a sin.

OP here- have you read the Bible? Eating shrimp and homosexuality are surely not equivalent. It is clearly written in the New Testament that you can eat what you want:

‘Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” (Acts 10:13-15)

‘(hypocritical liars)… order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.’ (1 Timothy 4:2-5)

But homosexuality is different:

Romans 1:18-27New International Version (NIV)

God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

‘It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honourable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. (1 Thessalonians 4:3-7)

You guys comparing homosexuality to blended fabrics and shrimp have missed the issue here.

Your quotes are from Paul again. Some think Paul was divinely inspired. But he most definitely was not Jesus, in fact he's not even counted as a "prophet" (he called himself a disciple). Taking his every word literally is elevating him to a status that he didn't claim for himself.

PS, I think you've missed the point. Jesus lifted most Old Testament bans--yes, including shellfish and blended fabrics. So we're starting over; the ground has totally shifted; and it's not necessarily OK to assume that everything in the Old Testament is still valid. Jesus cared enough about adultery to condemn it, but he never mentioned homosexuality.

Jesus' focus was on peace, loving your enemy, sharing your worldly goods, and so on. That's a focus that's meaningful to me, instead of worrying about who's sleeping with who. As others here have said, Jesus got away from all the bean counting and to a larger message of acceptance and love.

+1. A lovely way to put this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with those who don't believe it is a sin at all. Buy even among those who believe that "a sin is a sin is a sin," every sin may be equally a sin, but the Bible taken as a whole shows that God is much more concerned about some sins than others. For example, Jesus says nothing at all about homosexuality, quite a bit about adultery, and a TON about money. In the Old Testament, it's a TON about idolatry, which most modern day folks aren't really all that concerned with...we might talk about "what's an idol in your life" every now and then but we certainly don't give it the same emphasis as the Old Testament does. And churches certainly talk about money during stewardship campaigns and a few other times but not nearly as much as Jesus does in the Gospels. So even if you DO believe that homosexuality is a sin, I just don't think you can claim that God cares as much about it as a few other sins.

Yes, some sins are greater than others, and I liken sexual sins to something like losing your temper easily, both of which people have a hard time overcoming. However, just because Jesus didn't address homosexuality directly, and just because Jesus came to nullify the rules of the OT, it doesn't mean that all of the OT rules are invalid, like the 10 commandments.

Jesus had three short years to teach, so yes, he focused on the most important things like love, forgiveness and compassion. But, again, it doesn't mean that things he didn't address directly are not sins.

[Anonymous]

Jesus talks about homosexuality indirectly:

Matthew 19:4–6
"4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

Matthew 15:19–20:
"19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Notice that "adultery" and "sexual immorality" are separated. In this case, what does "sexual immorality" refer to? Who was Jesus addressing at the time?
In Matthew 15, Jesus was addressing the Pharisees, and to them homosexuality was immoral. So, one can conclude that "sexual immorality" here does include homosexuality.

Again, folks, you have to read the Bible versus within its context, who He was addressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian, but I genuinely do not feel that homosexuality is wrong. I just never have. I do see that homosexual acts are condemned by the Bible. I go to a very conservative church that will never perform gay marriages, for example. But in my heart, in my conscience, I just really do not feel homosexuality is wrong. I do not see anything immoral about it. If you have felt similar and found a way to reconcile this, I would love to know! I have been thinking about it for awhile.

OP, what you have to understand as a Christian is that it is not your opinion that matters. What if I don't believe that dishonoring my parents is wrong? Or lying? You can't pick and choose. The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is a sin. God didn't ask for your opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with those who don't believe it is a sin at all. Buy even among those who believe that "a sin is a sin is a sin," every sin may be equally a sin, but the Bible taken as a whole shows that God is much more concerned about some sins than others. For example, Jesus says nothing at all about homosexuality, quite a bit about adultery, and a TON about money. In the Old Testament, it's a TON about idolatry, which most modern day folks aren't really all that concerned with...we might talk about "what's an idol in your life" every now and then but we certainly don't give it the same emphasis as the Old Testament does. And churches certainly talk about money during stewardship campaigns and a few other times but not nearly as much as Jesus does in the Gospels. So even if you DO believe that homosexuality is a sin, I just don't think you can claim that God cares as much about it as a few other sins.

Yes, some sins are greater than others, and I liken sexual sins to something like losing your temper easily, both of which people have a hard time overcoming. However, just because Jesus didn't address homosexuality directly, and just because Jesus came to nullify the rules of the OT, it doesn't mean that all of the OT rules are invalid, like the 10 commandments.

Jesus had three short years to teach, so yes, he focused on the most important things like love, forgiveness and compassion. But, again, it doesn't mean that things he didn't address directly are not sins.

That's arguing straw men, isn't it? Jesus didn't talk about social media either, and I wouldn't presume to know God's views on it one way or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jesus talks about homosexuality indirectly:

Matthew 19:4–6
"4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

Matthew 15:19–20:
"19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Notice that "adultery" and "sexual immorality" are separated. In this case, what does "sexual immorality" refer to? Who was Jesus addressing at the time?
In Matthew 15, Jesus was addressing the Pharisees, and to them homosexuality was immoral. So, one can conclude that "sexual immorality" here does include homosexuality.

Again, folks, you have to read the Bible versus within its context, who He was addressing.

"Sexual immorality" could easily be pre-marital sex or pedophelia. The Pharisees thought these were immoral too. It would be a big leap to conclude that that passage is only or even partially about homosexuality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian, but I genuinely do not feel that homosexuality is wrong. I just never have. I do see that homosexual acts are condemned by the Bible. I go to a very conservative church that will never perform gay marriages, for example. But in my heart, in my conscience, I just really do not feel homosexuality is wrong. I do not see anything immoral about it. If you have felt similar and found a way to reconcile this, I would love to know! I have been thinking about it for awhile.

OP, what you have to understand as a Christian is that it is not your opinion that matters. What if I don't believe that dishonoring my parents is wrong? Or lying? You can't pick and choose. The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is a sin. God didn't ask for your opinion.

I agree that God is the ultimate judge. How many times did Jesus say exactly that? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and so on. To me, that's yet another reason why it's none of our business who is sleeping with whom.

I disagree completely that the Bible--the New Testament--is "very clear" on homosexuality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your quotes are from Paul again. Some think Paul was divinely inspired. But he most definitely was not Jesus, in fact he's not even counted as a "prophet" (he called himself a disciple). Taking his every word literally is elevating him to a status that he didn't claim for himself.

PS, I think you've missed the point. Jesus lifted most Old Testament bans--yes, including shellfish and blended fabrics. So we're starting over; the ground has totally shifted; and it's not necessarily OK to assume that everything in the Old Testament is still valid. Jesus cared enough about adultery to condemn it, but he never mentioned homosexuality.

Jesus' focus was on peace, loving your enemy, sharing your worldly goods, and so on. That's a focus that's meaningful to me, instead of worrying about who's sleeping with who. As others here have said, Jesus got away from all the bean counting and to a larger message of acceptance and love.

OP here. I don't know, a casual dismissal of the apostle Paul strikes me as more like exploiting some sort of Biblical loophole. Paul wrote half the New Testament and is largely responsible for Christianity in all of its forms. Paul is elevated, at least in my church, as equal to the disciples. Paul is a big deal.

Further, I'm not engaging in bean counting or being judgmental. I don't personally feel strongly about homosexuality, which is why I posted. But I do believe that is it is a serious matter to accept something that has been unaccepted by the church for 2000 years. A sin is something that misses the mark, that pulls you farther away from God. Christians are not supposed to condemn others, but they also cannot accept sin in their midst. You can love a person and accept that person but you cannot accept sin. For example, if homosexual behavior is a sin, then the church cannot legitimize it by having gay weddings, or a gay pastor/priest who is not celibate. No, Jesus did not mention homosexuality, but he also did not condone it, or any other sexual behavior that is considered "impure" by the church. It is not like homosexuality was a completely foreign concept to people at that time, the Romans engaged in homosexual acts in their society. So... yeah, this is where I struggle. I don't really think it is right to dismiss Paul or be like "aw everybody sins but Jesus is about acceptance." Yes, of course we love and accept people as they are, but we cannot accept sins.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't go to church or call myself a Christian if I were expected to believe that being gay is a sin. How can you read what Jesus (not Paul) said about loving our neighbors and still think that He would want us to judge and condemn something that is (1) inborn and (2) harmless?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus talks about homosexuality indirectly:

Matthew 19:4–6
"4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

Matthew 15:19–20:
"19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Notice that "adultery" and "sexual immorality" are separated. In this case, what does "sexual immorality" refer to? Who was Jesus addressing at the time?
In Matthew 15, Jesus was addressing the Pharisees, and to them homosexuality was immoral. So, one can conclude that "sexual immorality" here does include homosexuality.

Again, folks, you have to read the Bible versus within its context, who He was addressing.

"Sexual immorality" could easily be pre-marital sex or pedophelia. The Pharisees thought these were immoral too. It would be a big leap to conclude that that passage is only or even partially about homosexuality.

It's not a leap. I stated it includes homosexuality, not that "sexual immorality" only = homosexuality. Pharisees were Jews, and they knew that homosexuality was condemned, just as yes, beastiality was condemned, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your quotes are from Paul again. Some think Paul was divinely inspired. But he most definitely was not Jesus, in fact he's not even counted as a "prophet" (he called himself a disciple). Taking his every word literally is elevating him to a status that he didn't claim for himself.

PS, I think you've missed the point. Jesus lifted most Old Testament bans--yes, including shellfish and blended fabrics. So we're starting over; the ground has totally shifted; and it's not necessarily OK to assume that everything in the Old Testament is still valid. Jesus cared enough about adultery to condemn it, but he never mentioned homosexuality.

Jesus' focus was on peace, loving your enemy, sharing your worldly goods, and so on. That's a focus that's meaningful to me, instead of worrying about who's sleeping with who. As others here have said, Jesus got away from all the bean counting and to a larger message of acceptance and love.

OP here. I don't know, a casual dismissal of the apostle Paul strikes me as more like exploiting some sort of Biblical loophole. Paul wrote half the New Testament and is largely responsible for Christianity in all of its forms. Paul is elevated, at least in my church, as equal to the disciples. Paul is a big deal.

Further, I'm not engaging in bean counting or being judgmental. I don't personally feel strongly about homosexuality, which is why I posted. But I do believe that is it is a serious matter to accept something that has been unaccepted by the church for 2000 years. A sin is something that misses the mark, that pulls you farther away from God. Christians are not supposed to condemn others, but they also cannot accept sin in their midst. You can love a person and accept that person but you cannot accept sin. For example, if homosexual behavior is a sin, then the church cannot legitimize it by having gay weddings, or a gay pastor/priest who is not celibate. No, Jesus did not mention homosexuality, but he also did not condone it, or any other sexual behavior that is considered "impure" by the church. It is not like homosexuality was a completely foreign concept to people at that time, the Romans engaged in homosexual acts in their society. So... yeah, this is where I struggle. I don't really think it is right to dismiss Paul or be like "aw everybody sins but Jesus is about acceptance." Yes, of course we love and accept people as they are, but we cannot accept sins.

TL; DR, but it sounds like you are trying really hard to justify homophobia even though you know in your heart that it's okay to be gay. Good luck with that. I recommend visiting an Episcopalian or Presbyterian church and talking with their priest or pastor. They are usually more highly educated in theology than conservative evangelical ministers, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't go to church or call myself a Christian if I were expected to believe that being gay is a sin. How can you read what Jesus (not Paul) said about loving our neighbors and still think that He would want us to judge and condemn something that is (1) inborn and (2) harmless?

You can love your neighbor without loving their sin. If we were to only love people that don't sin, regardless of what kind of sin, we would love nobody on this earth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus talks about homosexuality indirectly:

Matthew 19:4–6
"4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

Matthew 15:19–20:
"19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Notice that "adultery" and "sexual immorality" are separated. In this case, what does "sexual immorality" refer to? Who was Jesus addressing at the time?
In Matthew 15, Jesus was addressing the Pharisees, and to them homosexuality was immoral. So, one can conclude that "sexual immorality" here does include homosexuality.

Again, folks, you have to read the Bible versus within its context, who He was addressing.

"Sexual immorality" could easily be pre-marital sex or pedophelia. The Pharisees thought these were immoral too. It would be a big leap to conclude that that passage is only or even partially about homosexuality.

Or bestiality. Some Christian denominations don't tolerate masturbation.