3 killed in crash on River Road

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter knows this family and is incredibly distraught.

She says that this is very much like the plot of her favorite book/movie, "If I Stay".

Oh my god, that was my daughter's initial reaction too. Honestly, I thought her's was an odd reaction, but hearing that other kids are "going there" mentioning the book/movie too makes me think this may be an age-appropriate way of wrapping their heads around something so tragic. This community will need to come together to support this seriously injured girl…and to help the other students absorb what has happened.

Glad Whitman will have counselors on site on Monday. Lots of pain.

PP here. I think that this is definitely their way of working through things - they can connect the strange emotions they're feeling right now to the characters that they like. It's a safe and comforting way for them to work through things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that putting on your flashers indicates a disabled car, thus suggesting the car behind doesn't have a choice but to make a dangerous maneuver. Bad idea and an inappropriate one even with an annoying driver pressuring you to make the turn. Just ignore them.

+1

If you engage your flashers when there is no need, you can be found at fault for causing an accident. Think before you drive.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Folks, let's leave the investigation to the investigators. Because posters have chosen to include the BMW driver's name here, this thread will come up in future Google searches for his name (unless I remove the thread which I hope to avoid doing). It is unfair to him to create a damaging electronic record when he has not been determined to have done anything wrong in this case.

+1

Very wise. This could become extremely messy, and more people dragged into legalities. Speculation is one thing, naming names (or otherwise identifying) is quite another. Sometimes, guilty people try to circumvent legalities. (!!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is heartbreaking.

+1

The finger pointing is ridiculous and uneducated. Learn when to shut your mouths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess you don't understand how terribly violent a car crash is . . .

No actually I don't, that is why I asked.....

Force equals mass x acceleration

4000 lbs x 60mph is a lot of force. Being hit broadside, your head snaps with enough force to break your neck. Even with airbags, it is common to hit your head on a pillar. Seatbelt keep you in your seat, but break bones and crush internal organs. And that's just the beginning.

To believe you are safe in a car that crashes even with seatbelt and airbags is a false sense of security. The help, sure. But that's all they do . . . help.

+1

Apply physics and you have your answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the BMW driver has a bad record, it still does not mean that he or she was in the wrong. The simple fact is that the Volt driver did NOT have the right of way. The witnesses have said that he paused when he should have gone, and bolted out when he should have yeilded.

I drove a volt for a while. Not a fan. Sounds like the driver could have hit the gas, and the car took too long to respond.

I wondered about that.

Looking online there is a history of a delay in acceleration happening with volts going from idle to movement.

Isn't this a general problem with hybrid cars? My husband rented one once and complained about this when it switched from idle to moving.

The westbound traffic crests a hill just east of the impact. I've made that turn many times and it's not really possible to see over that hill. At 45 mph you see the oncoming car for about 8s before it would hit you if you were in the intersection. It probably takes 2-3 s to cross both lanes. It's certainly possible that a small lag from the hybrid system switching modes, combined with a significantly greater closing speed from the westbound car, would eat up the entire margin of safety engineered in by MSHA (for non locals River is a state maintained road).

Given all of this I wish powers would stop blaming the Volt driver at least until the accident reconstruction is complete. Even if they misjudged, the outcome should not be three fatalities and another critical.

[Anonymous]

Powers -> posters obviously

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I make that left turn five days a week and if a car is in front of you turning left on to Braeburn Parkway as was the case in this accident, YOU CANNOT SEE oncoming traffic. It is so dangerous for both experienced and inexperienced drivers. It unfortunately was a tragic you waiting to happen.

If you can't see, you don't go. Period. You don't guess, or hope, or make a run for it. You sit there until you can see. I make a daily left turn off Route 28 that is similarly hopeless in terms of line of sight if a car is waiting to turn left from the other side, and I have sat there for upwards of 5 minutes before, waiting to be able to see a gap. It's annoying as all get-out, but when traffic is coming toward you at 50+ mph (speed limit is 40 but is routinely ignored), you can't afford to guess.

+1

Common sense, people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the BMW driver has a bad record, it still does not mean that he or she was in the wrong. The simple fact is that the Volt driver did NOT have the right of way. The witnesses have said that he paused when he should have gone, and bolted out when he should have yeilded.

I drove a volt for a while. Not a fan. Sounds like the driver could have hit the gas, and the car took too long to respond.

I wondered about that.

Looking online there is a history of a delay in acceleration happening with volts going from idle to movement.

Isn't this a general problem with hybrid cars? My husband rented one once and complained about this when it switched from idle to moving.

The westbound traffic crests a hill just east of the impact. I've made that turn many times and it's not really possible to see over that hill. At 45 mph you see the oncoming car for about 8s before it would hit you if you were in the intersection. It probably takes 2-3 s to cross both lanes. It's certainly possible that a small lag from the hybrid system switching modes, combined with a significantly greater closing speed from the westbound car, would eat up the entire margin of safety engineered in by MSHA (for non locals River is a state maintained road).

Given all of this I wish powers would stop blaming the Volt driver at least until the accident reconstruction is complete. Even if they misjudged, the outcome should not be three fatalities and another critical.

+1

I am wondering how negligence is decided in MD if both parties are technically at fault (assuming both speed on one part, and bad acceleration or something on the other part)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can search his name here if you want to see all the past traffic incidents.

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/casesearch/

One incident for speeding on 495 and one incident that was dismissed... Really that is it... Sorry but he was the victim.

You're looking at the wrong record:

In April 2015 at 6:45 pm, going 85 in a 55 mph zone.
Also charged with changing lanes when unsafe and reckless driving (wanton and willful disregard for safety of persons and property

In Sept. 2015, negligent driving, failure to drive vehicle on right half of roadway when required, failure to obey properly placed traffic control device, and following vehicle closer than reasonable and prudent.

In Oct. 2013, driver spinning wheels,

In Aug. 2013, negligent driving.

In June 2014, possession of marijuana.

Just to clarify, the first in your list should actually say "April 2013". The Sept. 2015 tickets were dismissed. The Aug. 2013 is the same as the April 2013 violation. He appeared in both traffic and criminal courts. So, a more accurate list would be:

In April 2013 at 6:45 pm, going 85 in a 55 mph zone.
Also charged with changing lanes when unsafe and reckless driving (wanton and willful disregard for safety of persons and property

In Sept. 2015, negligent driving, failure to drive vehicle on right half of roadway when required, failure to obey properly placed traffic control device, and following vehicle closer than reasonable and prudent. All dismissed in court.

In Oct. 2013, driver spinning wheels,

In June 2014, possession of marijuana.

How old is this person?

Reports indicate that he is 20

He is 20, driving for 4 years... 1 speeding ticket, 1 spinning wheels.

I guess you think negligent driving is not a big deal. I've been driving for nearly 30 years and have never plead guilty to negligent driving. He likely needed the lawyer to get the charges knocked down to keep his license.
Can't believe an insurance company would cover him and if they did I can't imagine it would be cheap.

You also forgot the speeding ticket in Arlington.

You do a lot of imagining that is for sure.

Is there a point to this comment?

[Anonymous]

There's a petition asking MSHA to install traffic signals at this intersection. Please sign.
https://www.change.org/p/maryland-state-highway-administration-install-traffic-signal-at-intersection-of-river-rd-braeburn-pkwy-pyle-rd-near-whitman-hs

[Anonymous]

Why are people so concerned with what happened and how? What does assigning blame even do now -- 3 people paid with their life and this poor teen girl is now an orphan. If her dad misjudged -- well he and his family paid the ultimate price. If the BMW driver was at fault -- well that still doesn't bring this family back together again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are people so concerned with what happened and how? What does assigning blame even do now -- 3 people paid with their life and this poor teen girl is now an orphan. If her dad misjudged -- well he and his family paid the ultimate price. If the BMW driver was at fault -- well that still doesn't bring this family back together again.

Because either way a lesson need to be learned and hopefully we can all don our best not to let this happen again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can search his name here if you want to see all the past traffic incidents.

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/casesearch/

One incident for speeding on 495 and one incident that was dismissed... Really that is it... Sorry but he was the victim.

You're looking at the wrong record:

In April 2015 at 6:45 pm, going 85 in a 55 mph zone.
Also charged with changing lanes when unsafe and reckless driving (wanton and willful disregard for safety of persons and property

In Sept. 2015, negligent driving, failure to drive vehicle on right half of roadway when required, failure to obey properly placed traffic control device, and following vehicle closer than reasonable and prudent.

In Oct. 2013, driver spinning wheels,

In Aug. 2013, negligent driving.

In June 2014, possession of marijuana.

Just to clarify, the first in your list should actually say "April 2013". The Sept. 2015 tickets were dismissed. The Aug. 2013 is the same as the April 2013 violation. He appeared in both traffic and criminal courts. So, a more accurate list would be:

In April 2013 at 6:45 pm, going 85 in a 55 mph zone.
Also charged with changing lanes when unsafe and reckless driving (wanton and willful disregard for safety of persons and property

In Sept. 2015, negligent driving, failure to drive vehicle on right half of roadway when required, failure to obey properly placed traffic control device, and following vehicle closer than reasonable and prudent. All dismissed in court.

In Oct. 2013, driver spinning wheels,

In June 2014, possession of marijuana.

How old is this person?

Reports indicate that he is 20

He is 20, driving for 4 years... 1 speeding ticket, 1 spinning wheels.

I guess you think negligent driving is not a big deal. I've been driving for nearly 30 years and have never plead guilty to negligent driving. He likely needed the lawyer to get the charges knocked down to keep his license.
Can't believe an insurance company would cover him and if they did I can't imagine it would be cheap.

You also forgot the speeding ticket in Arlington.

You do a lot of imagining that is for sure.

Is there a point to this comment?

It seems like the lawyer for the me driver is already defending his case on here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can search his name here if you want to see all the past traffic incidents.

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/casesearch/

One incident for speeding on 495 and one incident that was dismissed... Really that is it... Sorry but he was the victim.

You're looking at the wrong record:

In April 2015 at 6:45 pm, going 85 in a 55 mph zone.
Also charged with changing lanes when unsafe and reckless driving (wanton and willful disregard for safety of persons and property

In Sept. 2015, negligent driving, failure to drive vehicle on right half of roadway when required, failure to obey properly placed traffic control device, and following vehicle closer than reasonable and prudent.

In Oct. 2013, driver spinning wheels,

In Aug. 2013, negligent driving.

In June 2014, possession of marijuana.

Good thing his parents kept giving him the high priced fast sports car. Good thing.