Entering Oyster as Spanish-dominant -- Spanish proficiency test?

[Anonymous]

What about children who speak multiple languages?

Ask the school, this has been debated ad nauseam in this thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about children who speak multiple languages?

There's always a dominant language, the one they speak the best. It would be unusual for a child to be equally fluent in more than one language, although it could conceivably happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight. We bombed on the LAMB lottery and my child is too young for Oyster.

But I do hate it when people misuse data and that is what I feel is going on here in comparing these scores point blank. See the current Hardy thread on a 'dispassioned' evaluation of Hardy for a better analysis. But here is my crude analysis looking into the data on LAMB vs. Oyster.

2014 Test Scores - students scoring proficient or advanced
LAMB:
Math - 69.64
Reading - 73.21
Composition - 83.33
Science - 83.33

Oyster:
Math - 79.59
Reading - 79.8
Composition - 78.05
Science - 78.47

Oyster scores better in key areas of math and reading. Interestingly, though, LAMB scores better in composition and science. It is probably differences in curriculum and approach that account for that.

Now, more importantly than the face value test scores, let's look at the median growth percentile (MGP) for both schools. MGP is a better measure of school performance because it shows how much the kids are learning at school rather than how high of an income they have. High income brings up test scores across the board. (Again, see Hardy thread for an explanation of this). See http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/18970/heres-the-dc-school-ranking-you-should-be-looking-at/.

MGP Math:
Oyster - 51 (2014)
LAMB - 61 (2013)
*Same year data was not available.

MGP Reading:
Oyster - 52 (2014)
LAMB - 59 (2013)
*Again same year data not available.

So, while Oyster kids are scoring higher on the tests in math and reading, LAMB kids are improving more each year. This could indicate that LAMB kids are learning more in school compared to Oyster kids. Looking over time, these trends seem to have continued for several years with Oyster having higher overall scores and LAMB having higher MPGs. For comparable information from a couple of years back, see http://osse.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/osse/release_content/attachments/DC%20Schoolwide%20Growth%20Data%20Report_0.pdf.

Why would LAMB students score lower on the tests when they appear to be improving more on average each year? There could be a variety of reasons. One reason could be demographics since LAMB has a slight higher FARMs percentage and perhaps a more diverse population since you don't have to buy a million dollar home to get in, just win a school lottery (equally hard?). Another reason could perhaps be different teaching methods - it would be interesting to see how other Montessori schools stack up and whether Montessori teaching methods may play a role in the different scores. Finally, there are more ELL students at LAMB which could bring down their scores in the early years with some catch up to play in the later years.

All I want to point out here is that you have to look more deeply into the data when comparing schools rather than just look at straight up test scores. Beyond the analysis above, it is also useful to disaggregate by subgroup.

Regardless of all of this discussion, both LAMB and Oyster are great schools and I would give my left arm for my child to be accepted at either one of them.

As you said, the key scores are math and reading...on pretty much every standardized test (not just DC CAS). So it's nice that LAMB's students have done well in composition and science, but it really doesn't matter much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue of dominant language is pretty straight-forward and leaves little room for interpretation: if your child's first language is Spanish, meaning that they speak Spanish at age level, and English at some lower level or not at all, then they are Spanish-dominant. If the opposite is true, then they are English-dominant. It's not about being fluent enough to lie their way through the test. They could be very fluent in Spanish (good for them!), but if their native tongue is English and they speak English at home, they are English-dominant. We are immigrants and speak Spanish at home. Our daughter, who was born here, speaks Spanish at home and at her Spanish-immersion daycare. She speaks a few words in English that she picked up from her classmates, but only Spanish at age-level. She is the poster child for Spanish dominance, and that's how we applied to Oyster. We are waitlisted, and we hope that a space that should go to her is not taken by someone who lied on their application.

I really hope that your daughter gets in too! Parents should be ashamed of themselves for stealing seats at Oyster from their intended students. The definition of a native Spanish speaker isn't hard to understand...unless you're being willfully ignorant.

[Anonymous]

As you said, the key scores are math and reading...on pretty much every standardized test (not just DC CAS). So it's nice that LAMB's students have done well in composition and science, but it really doesn't matter much.

I am at Oyster, I think all these scores matter. In any case, the point of bringing up the scores (not me that brought them up) is to show that Oyster is in the same league as Deal and LAMB. It does not make sense to argue over a few % points. That's what the JKLM boosters do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As you said, the key scores are math and reading...on pretty much every standardized test (not just DC CAS). So it's nice that LAMB's students have done well in composition and science, but it really doesn't matter much.

I am at Oyster, I think all these scores matter. In any case, the point of bringing up the scores (not me that brought them up) is to show that Oyster is in the same league as Deal and LAMB. It does not make sense to argue over a few % points. That's what the JKLM boosters do.

Excellent point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As you said, the key scores are math and reading...on pretty much every standardized test (not just DC CAS). So it's nice that LAMB's students have done well in composition and science, but it really doesn't matter much.

I am at Oyster, I think all these scores matter. In any case, the point of bringing up the scores (not me that brought them up) is to show that Oyster is in the same league as Deal and LAMB. It does not make sense to argue over a few % points. That's what the JKLM boosters do.

I don't think that LAMB is in Oyster's league (but LAMB parents may claim otherwise). I also don't think that you're an Oyster parent. A 5% and 10% difference in key scores is significant. We disagree, and that's ok.

[Anonymous]

I don't think that LAMB is in Oyster's league (but LAMB parents may claim otherwise). I also don't think that you're an Oyster parent. A 5% and 10% difference in key scores is significant. We disagree, and that's ok.

Of course it is OK to disagree. What is not OK is to immediately start suspecting other posters. What is the point you are trying to make by soiling the thread again? We probably know each other from Oyster, so please keep it civil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are black, white or Asians not of hispanic origin, but natively fluent in Spanish welcome? By this thread it seems they are not.

They are most certainly welcome to apply as English-dominant, unless their Spanish is better than their English.

[Anonymous]

Estos no se cansan de seguir preguntando lo mismo, una y otra vez. En fin, les mando una cancion para comenzar el dia con algo mas alegre


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qm1rH8D0pg



Cada loco con su tema,
contra gustos no hay disputas:
artefactos, bestias, hombres y mujeres,
cada uno es como es,
cada quién es cada cual
y baja las escaleras como quiere.

Pero, puestos a escoger, soy partidario
de las voces de la calle
más que del diccionario,
me privan más los barrios
que el centro de la ciudad
y los artesanos más que la factoría,
la razón que la fuerza,
el instinto que la urbanidad
y un sioux más que el Séptimo de Caballería.

Prefiero los caminos a las fronteras
y una mariposa al Rockefeller Center
y el farero de Capdepera
al vigía de Occidente.

Prefiero querer a poder,
palpar a pisar,
ganar a perder,
besar a reñir,
bailar a desfilar
y disfrutar a medir.

Prefiero volar a correr,
hacer a pensar,
amar a querer,
tomar a pedir.
Antes que nada soy
partidario de vivir.

Cada loco con su tema,
que contra gustos no hay ni puede haber disputas:
artefactos, bestias, hombres y mujeres,
cada uno es como es,
cada quién es cada cual
y baja las escaleras como quiere.

Pero, puestos a escoger, prefiero
un buen polvo a un rapapolvo
y un bombero a un bombardero,
crecer a sentar cabeza, prefiero
la carne al metal
y las ventanas a las ventanillas,
un lunar de tu cara
a la Pinacoteca Nacional
y la revolución a las pesadillas.

Prefiero, el tiempo al oro,
la vida al sueño,
el perro al collar,
las nueces al ruido
y al sabio por conocer
a los locos conocidos.

Music
"Cada Loco Con Su Tema" by Joan Manuel Serrat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue of dominant language is pretty straight-forward and leaves little room for interpretation: if your child's first language is Spanish, meaning that they speak Spanish at age level, and English at some lower level or not at all, then they are Spanish-dominant. If the opposite is true, then they are English-dominant. It's not about being fluent enough to lie their way through the test. They could be very fluent in Spanish (good for them!), but if their native tongue is English and they speak English at home, they are English-dominant. We are immigrants and speak Spanish at home. Our daughter, who was born here, speaks Spanish at home and at her Spanish-immersion daycare. She speaks a few words in English that she picked up from her classmates, but only Spanish at age-level. She is the poster child for Spanish dominance, and that's how we applied to Oyster. We are waitlisted, and we hope that a space that should go to her is not taken by someone who lied on their application.

I really hope that your daughter gets in too! Parents should be ashamed of themselves for stealing seats at Oyster from their intended students. The definition of a native Spanish speaker isn't hard to understand...unless you're being willfully ignorant.

It actually is more complicated than that. It sounds like both parents here are Spanish speaking, so that's easy. But if one parent is native Spanish and the other native English, and languages spoken at home are 50/50, then perfectly bilingual children are quite possible. I know several. It is just that these "biracial" (not really, more like "bilingual") marriages are still statistically less common than people marrying within their own ethnicity, as PP has done. So people are more accustomed to seeing clearly Spanish or English dominant.

[Anonymous]

It is just that these "biracial" (not really, more like "bilingual") marriages are still statistically less common than people marrying within their own ethnicity, as PP has done. So people are more accustomed to seeing clearly Spanish or English dominant.

There are several families like this at Oyster, the most common cases are of course English + Spanish, but we also have Non-English/Non-Spanish (Scandinavian, French, Portuguese, etc) + Spanish
They are all welcome and many were accepted as OOB Spanish dominant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Estos no se cansan de seguir preguntando lo mismo, una y otra vez. En fin, les mando una cancion para comenzar el dia con algo mas alegre


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qm1rH8D0pg



Cada loco con su tema,
contra gustos no hay disputas:
artefactos, bestias, hombres y mujeres,
cada uno es como es,
cada quién es cada cual
y baja las escaleras como quiere.

Pero, puestos a escoger, soy partidario
de las voces de la calle
más que del diccionario,
me privan más los barrios
que el centro de la ciudad
y los artesanos más que la factoría,
la razón que la fuerza,
el instinto que la urbanidad
y un sioux más que el Séptimo de Caballería.

Prefiero los caminos a las fronteras
y una mariposa al Rockefeller Center
y el farero de Capdepera
al vigía de Occidente.

Prefiero querer a poder,
palpar a pisar,
ganar a perder,
besar a reñir,
bailar a desfilar
y disfrutar a medir.

Prefiero volar a correr,
hacer a pensar,
amar a querer,
tomar a pedir.
Antes que nada soy
partidario de vivir.

Cada loco con su tema,
que contra gustos no hay ni puede haber disputas:
artefactos, bestias, hombres y mujeres,
cada uno es como es,
cada quién es cada cual
y baja las escaleras como quiere.

Pero, puestos a escoger, prefiero
un buen polvo a un rapapolvo
y un bombero a un bombardero,
crecer a sentar cabeza, prefiero
la carne al metal
y las ventanas a las ventanillas,
un lunar de tu cara
a la Pinacoteca Nacional
y la revolución a las pesadillas.

Prefiero, el tiempo al oro,
la vida al sueño,
el perro al collar,
las nueces al ruido
y al sabio por conocer
a los locos conocidos.

Music
"Cada Loco Con Su Tema" by Joan Manuel Serrat

Genial cancion, pero cuidado. Vivimos en el pais del Séptimo de Caballería (y voluntariamente)...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is just that these "biracial" (not really, more like "bilingual") marriages are still statistically less common than people marrying within their own ethnicity, as PP has done. So people are more accustomed to seeing clearly Spanish or English dominant.

There are several families like this at Oyster, the most common cases are of course English + Spanish, but we also have Non-English/Non-Spanish (Scandinavian, French, Portuguese, etc) + Spanish
They are all welcome and many were accepted as OOB Spanish dominant.

It seems like the Oyster boosters crying foul of families testing in with Spanish dominance are more tolerant of people who speak several languages and also Spanish than speak English fluently and also Spanish.

[Anonymous]

It seems like the Oyster boosters crying foul of families testing in with Spanish dominance are more tolerant of people who speak several languages and also Spanish than speak English fluently and also Spanish.

Mi Dios, hasta cuando seguimos con estos planteos...

I just said above that most cases are English + Spanish and we love them all