Entering Oyster as Spanish-dominant -- Spanish proficiency test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, I didn't say anything about Deal because I have heard Oyster parents compare the school to Deal. I think that Oyster is best for students whose priority is attending a top-notch immersion school (as it is for us). Deal may be best for students who are struggling with the Spanish immersion curriculum, or desire a larger school with more extracurricular activities.



OK, so now that we are through with validating my credentials as a bonafide Oyster parent we can talk about more important stuff. Like what in your view sets Oyster apart from LAMB? It can't just be the scores, because that can be correlated with the quality / SES level of students going to each school.

Let me rephrase this last question since I am not interested in starting another pissing contest. What can we do at Oyster to make it better? Is there anything we can learn from other schools? How can we prevent having students struggle with Spanish leaving Oyster (as you or others always bring up) ? Imagine if the same was said of math or English, that students leave because they can't keep up? Who is failing then, the students or the school?

Thank you—this is a much more constructive question. My answers address Oyster specifically, but my responses apply to most immersion schools. I have friends with children in several DCPS and DCPCS, and this issue seems to be universal.

1. Oyster does a pretty good job of offering Spanish language resources (i.e., free Spanish tutoring for struggling students, Yabla, the bilingual book fair, etc.). However, I think that the school does a lousy job of emphasizing how important it is for English-speaking (ES) parents to support the language outside the home. I can’t tell you how many ES parents I have encountered who think that they will drop their child off at Oyster in PK or K, and pick-up a fully bilingual and biliterate child in 8th grade. Oyster does not tell parents that you must spend large amounts of time, energy and money to support the language outside of school or your child will probably struggle as they move up. Sure, there are ES children who do just fine without outside support, but they are the exception, not the rule (and why risk it?). Plus, those same children will probably do even better with additional support. In the few years that I have been at Oyster, I personally know of four ES families that have left (before the 3rd grade) because their children were really having a hard time with Spanish, and they were beginning to hate school. Every one of these parents, without exception, expressed surprise at the suggestion that they should do anything outside of school to support the language.

2. Oyster should have more instruction time in Spanish, especially in the primary grades. Why is it that only Spanish language arts and math are in Spanish? Why can’t science also be in Spanish? There are 4 specials (library, music, art and P.E.), and at least 2 (preferably 3) of those specials should be exclusively in Spanish. Three out of 4 of my child’s specials teachers (including the librarian) are native Spanish speakers or bilingual; so why does he only have 1½ specials in Spanish (library is half and half)? These kids, especially the ES children need more exposure to the language, not less.

3. Oyster should offer more Spanish language options in OCA. Why are there only 2 or 3 Spanish options every quarter? While the aftercare options, generally, are quite robust; they should have more variety in the target language. I know that OCA is supposed to be conducted in Spanish every other day; however, I’m not sure how strictly that’s implemented.

Long story short: I don’t think that Oyster is failing students who end up struggling in Spanish in the upper grades. However, Oyster needs to do a much better job of informing ES parents of the Herculean task that lies ahead. In addition, the school can and should do better to provide more instruction in the target language. However, parents are ultimately responsible. No one should care more about your child’s education than you. I do not expect any school to bear the full responsibility for educating my children. Any gaps that I detect are my responsibility to address; either with Oyster or with outside help.

Does anyone else have anything to add? What else can Oyster do to improve the school?

[Anonymous]

Does anyone else have anything to add? What else can Oyster do to improve the school?

I agree with PP that more time should be dedicated to Spanish. But we have to remember that dual immersion is not symmetrical, English is the dominant language in this culture and it rapidly becomes the dominant language for all students, regardless of their linguistic background. To achieve better Spanish for all, including those from Spanish speaking families, more attention should be given to the formal aspects of the language as is mentioned in the document from the Center for Applied Linguistics.

More can be also done to improve math education. Some have suggested having 4th and 5th grades structured more similar to the MS grades, where students have the same dedicated math teacher and a separate dedicated Spanish teacher. At Oyster the more difficult subjects (Spanish and Math) fall on the same teacher. Separating these might help both Spanish and math learning. In grades 1-3 teaching math in both English and Spanish could help both the ED and SD students, and allow all parents to feel comfortable helping their kids with math homework.

Anyone else would like to share theirs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Does anyone else have anything to add? What else can Oyster do to improve the school?

I agree with PP that more time should be dedicated to Spanish. But we have to remember that dual immersion is not symmetrical, English is the dominant language in this culture and it rapidly becomes the dominant language for all students, regardless of their linguistic background. To achieve better Spanish for all, including those from Spanish speaking families, more attention should be given to the formal aspects of the language as is mentioned in the document from the Center for Applied Linguistics.

More can be also done to improve math education. Some have suggested having 4th and 5th grades structured more similar to the MS grades, where students have the same dedicated math teacher and a separate dedicated Spanish teacher. At Oyster the more difficult subjects (Spanish and Math) fall on the same teacher. Separating these might help both Spanish and math learning. In grades 1-3 teaching math in both English and Spanish could help both the ED and SD students, and allow all parents to feel comfortable helping their kids with math homework.

Anyone else would like to share theirs?

Are there plans to make algebra in 7th grade the standard in order to match Deal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, I didn't say anything about Deal because I have heard Oyster parents compare the school to Deal. I think that Oyster is best for students whose priority is attending a top-notch immersion school (as it is for us). Deal may be best for students who are struggling with the Spanish immersion curriculum, or desire a larger school with more extracurricular activities.

OK, so now that we are through with validating my credentials as a bonafide Oyster parent we can talk about more important stuff. Like what in your view sets Oyster apart from LAMB? It can't just be the scores, because that can be correlated with the quality / SES level of students going to each school.

You first. Why do you think that LAMB is "in the same league" as Oyster. Btw, I am well aware of the connection between SES and test scores. Oyster and LAMB have about the same percentage of FARMS students--about 25% and 26%, respectively. However, there is a 10% gap in math scores and a 5% gap in reading scores, in Oyster's favor. I should note that Oyster's scores have always been higher than other DC immersion schools, even when they had an almost 40% FARMS rate and were a Title I school only a few years ago. So, despite the fact that both schools have about the same levels of poverty, Oyster's students consistently achieve higher key test scores.

I have other reasons, but as I said earlier, you first.

You should compare apples to apples here.

Here is the 2013-14 DC CAS Data for NON-FARM test takers at each school (3rd-5th):

Oyster:
# NON FARM tested 167
81.44% prof/adv in math
86.23% prof/adv in reading

LAMB:
# NON FARM tested 38
78.95% prof/adv in math
78.95% prof/adv in reading

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link. Enjoy.

http://www.cal.org/twi/pdfs/guiding-principles.pdf

Thank you! There are still some helpful people on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Una de critica muy buena
https://vimeo.com/83136262

Es muy buena, pero la version que pusiste esta truncada. La de abajo es como la recuerdo con la enumeracion de paises al final.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUV5nGvWgBM

[Anonymous]

For those that don't speak spanish, these losers are commenting on various YouTube clips, none of which I would click on. I dont know what you're trying to prove or do by posting on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those that don't speak spanish, these losers are commenting on various YouTube clips, none of which I would click on. I dont know what you're trying to prove or do by posting on here.

My dear anti-Spanish Nazi,

What a nice surprise to meet you here!

It looks like you realize you are a lost cause, but perhaps there's hope for your children to become bilingual?

Yours,

A bilingual citizen who's enjoyed the brief exchange of songs above (safe and fun)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those that don't speak spanish, these losers are commenting on various YouTube clips, none of which I would click on. I dont know what you're trying to prove or do by posting on here.

My dear anti-Spanish Nazi,

What a nice surprise to meet you here!

It looks like you realize you are a lost cause, but perhaps there's hope for your children to become bilingual?

Yours,

A bilingual citizen who's enjoyed the brief exchange of songs above (safe and fun)

Mi tambien! Signed an American with very poor Spanish language skills, but loves the language and culture and raising two bilingual kids

[Anonymous]

For those that don't speak spanish, these losers are commenting on various YouTube clips, none of which I would click on. I dont know what you're trying to prove or do by posting on here.

What kind of self-hating monolingual are you spending your time on the bilingual threads? And why are you annoyed by some great music? I hope you start your therapy soon, ma cherie, but I am sure she will recommend for you trilingual immersion in a menage a trois with lots of french kissing y sexo ardiente. Buena suerte, querida.

[Anonymous]

these losers are commenting on various YouTube clips, none of which I would click on

What do fear that you don't click a Youtube link? Catching an STD? You can't even get a computer virus on Youtube. So, it is you that is losing out on some music and fun.

[Anonymous]

We are discussing schools here, not music videos. This is a thread about improving oyster. And you can actually get a virus etc from clicking on a link. It's rude to speak in a language not everyone speaks.

These are basic social niceties. Please respect them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are discussing schools here, not music videos. This is a thread about improving oyster. And you can actually get a virus etc from clicking on a link. It's rude to speak in a language not everyone speaks.

These are basic social niceties. Please respect them.

Oy vey...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are discussing schools here, not music videos. This is a thread about improving oyster. And you can actually get a virus etc from clicking on a link. It's rude to speak in a language not everyone speaks.

These are basic social niceties. Please respect them.

Oy vey...

She would pass a Crazy dominant test, no doubt. Any song to cheer her up?

[Anonymous]

I think most of the music links and weird responses are from the same Oyster lunatic.