Do you believe in Hell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian. Yes I believe in hell. It terrifies me, I worry about it all the time. Probably the biggest reason I won't have kids. The thought of my own child burning in hell and being on fire forever is too much for me.

Well, do I have some good news for you! There is no such thing as hell! No way that he'll exists! I wish I could convince you. How terrible it must be to live your life in fear. And for that fear to prevent you even from having children! I am so sad for you.

I have better news for you. You can have forgiveness of sins and eternal life through faith in Christ. With faith in Christ, we are free. Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly. John 10:10. Put your trust in Christ, and leave your fears with Him. Hebrews 12 says we "have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

This is far, far better news. God bless.

It's good news for her, if she believes it, but it won't help her children unless they believe it too -- and there's no telling what they'll be like. She can take wonderful care of them and teach them all about the Bible, but they will have their own free will that god gives to everyone, individually, and who know what they will do with it?

It's unfair of you to not point this out to her -- or do you just care about her soul and not her children's?

I feel for anyone who lets their fears about religion interfere with their decision to have kids, but if you subscribe to religious beliefs that include heaven and hell and free will, then, as a parent, you accept that any children you have can use their gift of free will, given with love and great sacrifice by God and His son, Jesus Christ, to reject God.

Statistics show that young people are the least likely to be affiliated with a religion - 30%. This means that even though some of them might be "spiritual" or believe in God, they don't follow the tenets of any organized religion. This number has been growing for decades and doesn't look like it's going to reverse any time soon, or ever. It's a phenomenon in all developed countries, with the US increase trailing many others. So any children born now are statistically less likely than earlier generations to follow Christianity. Any parent who firmly believes in the concept of Hell for people who use their free will to deny Christ, should be aware of that. Seems like their choices are to change their beliefs, or to take the chance that any kids they have will use their free will wisely, accept Christ and avoid hell.

This goes against the deepest idea of faith. That we would give in to fear about what may happen to our children so we reject God himself. Anyway, how would that lead to saving our children?

Fear is the enemy here, not God.

It goes against some ideas of faith but fits in perfectly with others. The free will argument is real and has been made eloquently and repeatedly right here on DCUM. Fear is used regularly in some faiths to encourage people to believe in god and specifically to accept Jesus Christ, or risk eternal punishment or separation from God.

Yes, but you asserted that the parent has to make a choice to change their beliefs based on the possibility that their child may go to hell. Why would a parent have to do that? Of course through free will a child (or anyone) can reject God. I guess I don't understand why a parent would rethink an entire belief system based on the fear of another person's choices.

They don't have to, but the pp said that was her fear about having children -- and she's right -- a mother ultimately can't control a child's free will to accept Christ or not. Her future kids -- or anyone's kids -- might burn in hell if they refuse Christ.

If you believe in the concept and consequences of free will, then you accept that it's a gift that god gives each person individually, irrespective of their parents beliefs or even if they are raised in a country where where they are unlikely to learn about Christ and the free will that God gave them through His sacrifice.

If the prospective parent changes her beliefs, then she could proceed with having children without this fear.

For pp who refuses to have children based on a fear of hell I would suggest she see a therapist for anxiety. It's obviously affecting her life is a destructive way.

And yes, as a parent I accept that my child will not adopt the same viewpoints that I have. That's part of parenting.

We have five children - four of them are adults and one is an older teen. My oldest is 25 and married. They attend a Unitarian Universalist Church. My second is 22. He is Catholic. My third is 21. She attends a Unity Church but was Wicca for a while and still sort of identifies with the Wiccan faith. Our fourth is 20. She is Buddhist. Our youngest is in high school and is an atheist..today. Our kids were raised in Christian churches, however all of those churches were very progressive and encouraged spiritual questioning and exploration. I think that's far healthier than the way I was raised. I truly believe I was harmed by my very southern baptist upbringing. I hear that fear in the previous poster's words. For me it took a lot of therapy and a lot (I mean a whole lot) of soul work to get past what I believe was religious abuse.

Funny how raising your children in a "progressive" church led to:
A Unitarian, which is basically an ethical society
A Wiccan
A Buddhist
An Atheist

The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

I say this with as much kindness as I can - You are spiritually immature. That is not a character flaw. It just is. I have 100% confidence that my children will find their own spiritual path. "Christ" (You do realize that Jesus' last name was not Christ, right?) lives and dwells in each and every one of us. We all have that Christ light. It is my hope that my children will never stop exploring their spirituality. It is what they were meant to do. Our Creator gave us these amazing minds along with the desire to explore. I don't believe God wants sheep that mindlessly gobble up whatever their most recent pastor feeds them. There is a whole big world full of all kinds of different beliefs. None of them are "the right one". The difference between those who are more spiritually mature and those who are not is that spiritually mature people don't have to make others wrong in order to be right. If it is your belief that the only way to salvation is through Jesus the Christ, then that's great. But you should know that simply because you believe it to be true does not make it so. You are no more worthy of "salvation" or of God's love than any other person walking around on this planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian. Yes I believe in hell. It terrifies me, I worry about it all the time. Probably the biggest reason I won't have kids. The thought of my own child burning in hell and being on fire forever is too much for me.

Well, do I have some good news for you! There is no such thing as hell! No way that he'll exists! I wish I could convince you. How terrible it must be to live your life in fear. And for that fear to prevent you even from having children! I am so sad for you.

I have better news for you. You can have forgiveness of sins and eternal life through faith in Christ. With faith in Christ, we are free. Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly. John 10:10. Put your trust in Christ, and leave your fears with Him. Hebrews 12 says we "have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

This is far, far better news. God bless.

It's good news for her, if she believes it, but it won't help her children unless they believe it too -- and there's no telling what they'll be like. She can take wonderful care of them and teach them all about the Bible, but they will have their own free will that god gives to everyone, individually, and who know what they will do with it?

It's unfair of you to not point this out to her -- or do you just care about her soul and not her children's?

I feel for anyone who lets their fears about religion interfere with their decision to have kids, but if you subscribe to religious beliefs that include heaven and hell and free will, then, as a parent, you accept that any children you have can use their gift of free will, given with love and great sacrifice by God and His son, Jesus Christ, to reject God.

Statistics show that young people are the least likely to be affiliated with a religion - 30%. This means that even though some of them might be "spiritual" or believe in God, they don't follow the tenets of any organized religion. This number has been growing for decades and doesn't look like it's going to reverse any time soon, or ever. It's a phenomenon in all developed countries, with the US increase trailing many others. So any children born now are statistically less likely than earlier generations to follow Christianity. Any parent who firmly believes in the concept of Hell for people who use their free will to deny Christ, should be aware of that. Seems like their choices are to change their beliefs, or to take the chance that any kids they have will use their free will wisely, accept Christ and avoid hell.

This goes against the deepest idea of faith. That we would give in to fear about what may happen to our children so we reject God himself. Anyway, how would that lead to saving our children?

Fear is the enemy here, not God.

It goes against some ideas of faith but fits in perfectly with others. The free will argument is real and has been made eloquently and repeatedly right here on DCUM. Fear is used regularly in some faiths to encourage people to believe in god and specifically to accept Jesus Christ, or risk eternal punishment or separation from God.

Yes, but you asserted that the parent has to make a choice to change their beliefs based on the possibility that their child may go to hell. Why would a parent have to do that? Of course through free will a child (or anyone) can reject God. I guess I don't understand why a parent would rethink an entire belief system based on the fear of another person's choices.

They don't have to, but the pp said that was her fear about having children -- and she's right -- a mother ultimately can't control a child's free will to accept Christ or not. Her future kids -- or anyone's kids -- might burn in hell if they refuse Christ.

If you believe in the concept and consequences of free will, then you accept that it's a gift that god gives each person individually, irrespective of their parents beliefs or even if they are raised in a country where where they are unlikely to learn about Christ and the free will that God gave them through His sacrifice.

If the prospective parent changes her beliefs, then she could proceed with having children without this fear.

For pp who refuses to have children based on a fear of hell I would suggest she see a therapist for anxiety. It's obviously affecting her life is a destructive way.

And yes, as a parent I accept that my child will not adopt the same viewpoints that I have. That's part of parenting.

We have five children - four of them are adults and one is an older teen. My oldest is 25 and married. They attend a Unitarian Universalist Church. My second is 22. He is Catholic. My third is 21. She attends a Unity Church but was Wicca for a while and still sort of identifies with the Wiccan faith. Our fourth is 20. She is Buddhist. Our youngest is in high school and is an atheist..today. Our kids were raised in Christian churches, however all of those churches were very progressive and encouraged spiritual questioning and exploration. I think that's far healthier than the way I was raised. I truly believe I was harmed by my very southern baptist upbringing. I hear that fear in the previous poster's words. For me it took a lot of therapy and a lot (I mean a whole lot) of soul work to get past what I believe was religious abuse.

Funny how raising your children in a "progressive" church led to:
A Unitarian, which is basically an ethical society
A Wiccan
A Buddhist
An Atheist

The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

You think that God prefers we come to him because we have refused to question what we were taught as children? Better to have questioned and found your path to him willingly and with real love, not fear of damnation.

[Anonymous]

^^

I'm not sure where anyone said that "Christ" was Jesus's last name. It means "anointed one" or "chosen of God." And Jesus means "salvation is from the LORD." So the name of Jesus Christ means that He is the chosen one to bring salvation. I'm not sure how anyone who denies Christ has the spirit of Christ in him or her. But those who trust in Christ as their savior very much do have the Holy Spirit inside to guide them into greater and greater spiritual maturity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian. Yes I believe in hell. It terrifies me, I worry about it all the time. Probably the biggest reason I won't have kids. The thought of my own child burning in hell and being on fire forever is too much for me.

Well, do I have some good news for you! There is no such thing as hell! No way that he'll exists! I wish I could convince you. How terrible it must be to live your life in fear. And for that fear to prevent you even from having children! I am so sad for you.

I have better news for you. You can have forgiveness of sins and eternal life through faith in Christ. With faith in Christ, we are free. Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly. John 10:10. Put your trust in Christ, and leave your fears with Him. Hebrews 12 says we "have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

This is far, far better news. God bless.

It's good news for her, if she believes it, but it won't help her children unless they believe it too -- and there's no telling what they'll be like. She can take wonderful care of them and teach them all about the Bible, but they will have their own free will that god gives to everyone, individually, and who know what they will do with it?

It's unfair of you to not point this out to her -- or do you just care about her soul and not her children's?

I feel for anyone who lets their fears about religion interfere with their decision to have kids, but if you subscribe to religious beliefs that include heaven and hell and free will, then, as a parent, you accept that any children you have can use their gift of free will, given with love and great sacrifice by God and His son, Jesus Christ, to reject God.

Statistics show that young people are the least likely to be affiliated with a religion - 30%. This means that even though some of them might be "spiritual" or believe in God, they don't follow the tenets of any organized religion. This number has been growing for decades and doesn't look like it's going to reverse any time soon, or ever. It's a phenomenon in all developed countries, with the US increase trailing many others. So any children born now are statistically less likely than earlier generations to follow Christianity. Any parent who firmly believes in the concept of Hell for people who use their free will to deny Christ, should be aware of that. Seems like their choices are to change their beliefs, or to take the chance that any kids they have will use their free will wisely, accept Christ and avoid hell.

This goes against the deepest idea of faith. That we would give in to fear about what may happen to our children so we reject God himself. Anyway, how would that lead to saving our children?

Fear is the enemy here, not God.

It goes against some ideas of faith but fits in perfectly with others. The free will argument is real and has been made eloquently and repeatedly right here on DCUM. Fear is used regularly in some faiths to encourage people to believe in god and specifically to accept Jesus Christ, or risk eternal punishment or separation from God.

Yes, but you asserted that the parent has to make a choice to change their beliefs based on the possibility that their child may go to hell. Why would a parent have to do that? Of course through free will a child (or anyone) can reject God. I guess I don't understand why a parent would rethink an entire belief system based on the fear of another person's choices.

They don't have to, but the pp said that was her fear about having children -- and she's right -- a mother ultimately can't control a child's free will to accept Christ or not. Her future kids -- or anyone's kids -- might burn in hell if they refuse Christ.

If you believe in the concept and consequences of free will, then you accept that it's a gift that god gives each person individually, irrespective of their parents beliefs or even if they are raised in a country where where they are unlikely to learn about Christ and the free will that God gave them through His sacrifice.

If the prospective parent changes her beliefs, then she could proceed with having children without this fear.

For pp who refuses to have children based on a fear of hell I would suggest she see a therapist for anxiety. It's obviously affecting her life is a destructive way.

And yes, as a parent I accept that my child will not adopt the same viewpoints that I have. That's part of parenting.

We have five children - four of them are adults and one is an older teen. My oldest is 25 and married. They attend a Unitarian Universalist Church. My second is 22. He is Catholic. My third is 21. She attends a Unity Church but was Wicca for a while and still sort of identifies with the Wiccan faith. Our fourth is 20. She is Buddhist. Our youngest is in high school and is an atheist..today. Our kids were raised in Christian churches, however all of those churches were very progressive and encouraged spiritual questioning and exploration. I think that's far healthier than the way I was raised. I truly believe I was harmed by my very southern baptist upbringing. I hear that fear in the previous poster's words. For me it took a lot of therapy and a lot (I mean a whole lot) of soul work to get past what I believe was religious abuse.

Funny how raising your children in a "progressive" church led to:
A Unitarian, which is basically an ethical society
A Wiccan
A Buddhist
An Atheist

The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

You think that God prefers we come to him because we have refused to question what we were taught as children? Better to have questioned and found your path to him willingly and with real love, not fear of damnation.

AMEN!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian. Yes I believe in hell. It terrifies me, I worry about it all the time. Probably the biggest reason I won't have kids. The thought of my own child burning in hell and being on fire forever is too much for me.

Well, do I have some good news for you! There is no such thing as hell! No way that he'll exists! I wish I could convince you. How terrible it must be to live your life in fear. And for that fear to prevent you even from having children! I am so sad for you.

I have better news for you. You can have forgiveness of sins and eternal life through faith in Christ. With faith in Christ, we are free. Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly. John 10:10. Put your trust in Christ, and leave your fears with Him. Hebrews 12 says we "have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

This is far, far better news. God bless.

It's good news for her, if she believes it, but it won't help her children unless they believe it too -- and there's no telling what they'll be like. She can take wonderful care of them and teach them all about the Bible, but they will have their own free will that god gives to everyone, individually, and who know what they will do with it?

It's unfair of you to not point this out to her -- or do you just care about her soul and not her children's?

I feel for anyone who lets their fears about religion interfere with their decision to have kids, but if you subscribe to religious beliefs that include heaven and hell and free will, then, as a parent, you accept that any children you have can use their gift of free will, given with love and great sacrifice by God and His son, Jesus Christ, to reject God.

Statistics show that young people are the least likely to be affiliated with a religion - 30%. This means that even though some of them might be "spiritual" or believe in God, they don't follow the tenets of any organized religion. This number has been growing for decades and doesn't look like it's going to reverse any time soon, or ever. It's a phenomenon in all developed countries, with the US increase trailing many others. So any children born now are statistically less likely than earlier generations to follow Christianity. Any parent who firmly believes in the concept of Hell for people who use their free will to deny Christ, should be aware of that. Seems like their choices are to change their beliefs, or to take the chance that any kids they have will use their free will wisely, accept Christ and avoid hell.

This goes against the deepest idea of faith. That we would give in to fear about what may happen to our children so we reject God himself. Anyway, how would that lead to saving our children?

Fear is the enemy here, not God.

It goes against some ideas of faith but fits in perfectly with others. The free will argument is real and has been made eloquently and repeatedly right here on DCUM. Fear is used regularly in some faiths to encourage people to believe in god and specifically to accept Jesus Christ, or risk eternal punishment or separation from God.

Yes, but you asserted that the parent has to make a choice to change their beliefs based on the possibility that their child may go to hell. Why would a parent have to do that? Of course through free will a child (or anyone) can reject God. I guess I don't understand why a parent would rethink an entire belief system based on the fear of another person's choices.

They don't have to, but the pp said that was her fear about having children -- and she's right -- a mother ultimately can't control a child's free will to accept Christ or not. Her future kids -- or anyone's kids -- might burn in hell if they refuse Christ.

If you believe in the concept and consequences of free will, then you accept that it's a gift that god gives each person individually, irrespective of their parents beliefs or even if they are raised in a country where where they are unlikely to learn about Christ and the free will that God gave them through His sacrifice.

If the prospective parent changes her beliefs, then she could proceed with having children without this fear.

For pp who refuses to have children based on a fear of hell I would suggest she see a therapist for anxiety. It's obviously affecting her life is a destructive way.

And yes, as a parent I accept that my child will not adopt the same viewpoints that I have. That's part of parenting.

We have five children - four of them are adults and one is an older teen. My oldest is 25 and married. They attend a Unitarian Universalist Church. My second is 22. He is Catholic. My third is 21. She attends a Unity Church but was Wicca for a while and still sort of identifies with the Wiccan faith. Our fourth is 20. She is Buddhist. Our youngest is in high school and is an atheist..today. Our kids were raised in Christian churches, however all of those churches were very progressive and encouraged spiritual questioning and exploration. I think that's far healthier than the way I was raised. I truly believe I was harmed by my very southern baptist upbringing. I hear that fear in the previous poster's words. For me it took a lot of therapy and a lot (I mean a whole lot) of soul work to get past what I believe was religious abuse.

Funny how raising your children in a "progressive" church led to:
A Unitarian, which is basically an ethical society
A Wiccan
A Buddhist
An Atheist

The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

You think that God prefers we come to him because we have refused to question what we were taught as children? Better to have questioned and found your path to him willingly and with real love, not fear of damnation.

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

[Anonymous]

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

And it's going to get harder. People are leaving fundamental Christian churches and for good reason. I am a Church Administrator in a progressive Christian church. Our new members' classes are literally doubling in size every time we offer them. Most of the new members are coming from the Southern Baptist and Catholic churches (nothing against the Catholics. I love the direction the Catholic Church seems to be taking!). Millennials especially are sick of divisive, exclusionary places of worship. They value diversity and acceptance. They want to be in a place where spiritual exploration and questioning are encouraged. They want a variety of classes and workshops that feed their mind and their body. They don't need to be told that one path is the "right" one and everyone else is destined for hell. That's not the loving God (Goddess, Creator, Universal Good, Allah, I Am, Spirit...whatever) they have grown to know.

And most of all - They have outgrown fears of eternal damnation for daring to question. God is bigger than that. He doesn't need to hold the threat of hell over people's heads in order to get them to listen to Him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

And it's going to get harder. People are leaving fundamental Christian churches and for good reason. I am a Church Administrator in a progressive Christian church. Our new members' classes are literally doubling in size every time we offer them. Most of the new members are coming from the Southern Baptist and Catholic churches (nothing against the Catholics. I love the direction the Catholic Church seems to be taking!). Millennials especially are sick of divisive, exclusionary places of worship. They value diversity and acceptance. They want to be in a place where spiritual exploration and questioning are encouraged. They want a variety of classes and workshops that feed their mind and their body. They don't need to be told that one path is the "right" one and everyone else is destined for hell. That's not the loving God (Goddess, Creator, Universal Good, Allah, I Am, Spirit...whatever) they have grown to know.

And most of all - They have outgrown fears of eternal damnation for daring to question. God is bigger than that. He doesn't need to hold the threat of hell over people's heads in order to get them to listen to Him.

You work in a Christian church, and you don't even know what to call God?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

And it's going to get harder. People are leaving fundamental Christian churches and for good reason. I am a Church Administrator in a progressive Christian church. Our new members' classes are literally doubling in size every time we offer them. Most of the new members are coming from the Southern Baptist and Catholic churches (nothing against the Catholics. I love the direction the Catholic Church seems to be taking!). Millennials especially are sick of divisive, exclusionary places of worship. They value diversity and acceptance. They want to be in a place where spiritual exploration and questioning are encouraged. They want a variety of classes and workshops that feed their mind and their body. They don't need to be told that one path is the "right" one and everyone else is destined for hell. That's not the loving God (Goddess, Creator, Universal Good, Allah, I Am, Spirit...whatever) they have grown to know.

And most of all - They have outgrown fears of eternal damnation for daring to question. God is bigger than that. He doesn't need to hold the threat of hell over people's heads in order to get them to listen to Him.

You work in a Christian church, and you don't even know what to call God?

I work in a Christian church that acknowledges that people have many names for God. It's all the same God. Have you read the Bible? El, Yahweh, Father, Jehovah, Holy Spirit, Abba, Kyrios, ...to name just a very few. Do you think God, the loving Creator of all that is, gives a damn how we use our vocal chords to pronounce His name? Seriously? You don't think God is a little above a combination of letters? Maybe He's a little bigger than language? Allah is the God that Abraham knew. I could call him %$#@* and it would still be God.

That's what I mean by spiritually immature. At some point you outgrow the need to put "God" on a throne with a white beard and a book with a naughty list. God is the loving source of all that is. You could replace "God" with any name and it wouldn't change the nature of God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

And it's going to get harder. People are leaving fundamental Christian churches and for good reason. I am a Church Administrator in a progressive Christian church. Our new members' classes are literally doubling in size every time we offer them. Most of the new members are coming from the Southern Baptist and Catholic churches (nothing against the Catholics. I love the direction the Catholic Church seems to be taking!). Millennials especially are sick of divisive, exclusionary places of worship. They value diversity and acceptance. They want to be in a place where spiritual exploration and questioning are encouraged. They want a variety of classes and workshops that feed their mind and their body. They don't need to be told that one path is the "right" one and everyone else is destined for hell. That's not the loving God (Goddess, Creator, Universal Good, Allah, I Am, Spirit...whatever) they have grown to know.

And most of all - They have outgrown fears of eternal damnation for daring to question. God is bigger than that. He doesn't need to hold the threat of hell over people's heads in order to get them to listen to Him.

You work in a Christian church, and you don't even know what to call God?

I take it that all those names were not what pp calls God but what the newcomers to her church came with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

And it's going to get harder. People are leaving fundamental Christian churches and for good reason. I am a Church Administrator in a progressive Christian church. Our new members' classes are literally doubling in size every time we offer them. Most of the new members are coming from the Southern Baptist and Catholic churches (nothing against the Catholics. I love the direction the Catholic Church seems to be taking!). Millennials especially are sick of divisive, exclusionary places of worship. They value diversity and acceptance. They want to be in a place where spiritual exploration and questioning are encouraged. They want a variety of classes and workshops that feed their mind and their body. They don't need to be told that one path is the "right" one and everyone else is destined for hell. That's not the loving God (Goddess, Creator, Universal Good, Allah, I Am, Spirit...whatever) they have grown to know.

And most of all - They have outgrown fears of eternal damnation for daring to question. God is bigger than that. He doesn't need to hold the threat of hell over people's heads in order to get them to listen to Him.

You work in a Christian church, and you don't even know what to call God?

I work in a Christian church that acknowledges that people have many names for God. It's all the same God. Have you read the Bible? El, Yahweh, Father, Jehovah, Holy Spirit, Abba, Kyrios, ...to name just a very few. Do you think God, the loving Creator of all that is, gives a damn how we use our vocal chords to pronounce His name? Seriously? You don't think God is a little above a combination of letters? Maybe He's a little bigger than language? Allah is the God that Abraham knew. I could call him %$#@* and it would still be God.

That's what I mean by spiritually immature. At some point you outgrow the need to put "God" on a throne with a white beard and a book with a naughty list. God is the loving source of all that is. You could replace "God" with any name and it wouldn't change the nature of God.

Wow. It sounds like you don't even feel you need to give God any respect. Yes, the Bible records many names for God, but they're all His name for Himself. He tells us; we don't tell Him. I Timothy 6:16 says God "dwells in unapproachable light" and "to Him be honor and might forever." Moses had to take his sandals off when standing on the same mountain. His glory is unsurpassed and unimaginable. The Third Commandment says we are not to take His name in vain. Clearly, His name means something to Him. I'm sure you think you can call him whatever you want, but I'm also sure that if you start any of your prayers, "Hey, *&%#@!, give me..." He won't be answering those.

It's amazing a self-professed Christian has that cavalier an attitude toward the LORD who made you. You wouldn't speak like that to a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

And it's going to get harder. People are leaving fundamental Christian churches and for good reason. I am a Church Administrator in a progressive Christian church. Our new members' classes are literally doubling in size every time we offer them. Most of the new members are coming from the Southern Baptist and Catholic churches (nothing against the Catholics. I love the direction the Catholic Church seems to be taking!). Millennials especially are sick of divisive, exclusionary places of worship. They value diversity and acceptance. They want to be in a place where spiritual exploration and questioning are encouraged. They want a variety of classes and workshops that feed their mind and their body. They don't need to be told that one path is the "right" one and everyone else is destined for hell. That's not the loving God (Goddess, Creator, Universal Good, Allah, I Am, Spirit...whatever) they have grown to know.

And most of all - They have outgrown fears of eternal damnation for daring to question. God is bigger than that. He doesn't need to hold the threat of hell over people's heads in order to get them to listen to Him.

You work in a Christian church, and you don't even know what to call God?

I work in a Christian church that acknowledges that people have many names for God. It's all the same God. Have you read the Bible? El, Yahweh, Father, Jehovah, Holy Spirit, Abba, Kyrios, ...to name just a very few. Do you think God, the loving Creator of all that is, gives a damn how we use our vocal chords to pronounce His name? Seriously? You don't think God is a little above a combination of letters? Maybe He's a little bigger than language? Allah is the God that Abraham knew. I could call him %$#@* and it would still be God.

That's what I mean by spiritually immature. At some point you outgrow the need to put "God" on a throne with a white beard and a book with a naughty list. God is the loving source of all that is. You could replace "God" with any name and it wouldn't change the nature of God.

Wow. It sounds like you don't even feel you need to give God any respect. Yes, the Bible records many names for God, but they're all His name for Himself. He tells us; we don't tell Him. I Timothy 6:16 says God "dwells in unapproachable light" and "to Him be honor and might forever." Moses had to take his sandals off when standing on the same mountain. His glory is unsurpassed and unimaginable. The Third Commandment says we are not to take His name in vain. Clearly, His name means something to Him. I'm sure you think you can call him whatever you want, but I'm also sure that if you start any of your prayers, "Hey, *&%#@!, give me..." He won't be answering those.

It's amazing a self-professed Christian has that cavalier an attitude toward the LORD who made you. You wouldn't speak like that to a child.

Well I don't typically pray "Hey God, give me....." because like most spiritual people, I've grown beyond seeing God as a magic genie granting wishes to those he favors. Prayer and meditation are huge parts of my life. I've been a prayer chaplain for years. When I pray, I seek guidance and wisdom. I pray for peace and clarity. I affirm wholeness, health, love, abundance, and the fact that Christ lives in every person on this planet. "Give me...." just isn't in my pray life. But again, if it works for you, then it works for you. I don't think God cares what we call Him, assuming of course that we speak from our hearts. I don't believe God can be fully expressed by any word we have. I think God is above language and definitely above religion.

Do you not understand that *&%#@ means nothing? It's a bunch of random keys on a keyboard. God is bigger than that, my friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian. Yes I believe in hell. It terrifies me, I worry about it all the time. Probably the biggest reason I won't have kids. The thought of my own child burning in hell and being on fire forever is too much for me.

Well, do I have some good news for you! There is no such thing as hell! No way that he'll exists! I wish I could convince you. How terrible it must be to live your life in fear. And for that fear to prevent you even from having children! I am so sad for you.

I have better news for you. You can have forgiveness of sins and eternal life through faith in Christ. With faith in Christ, we are free. Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly. John 10:10. Put your trust in Christ, and leave your fears with Him. Hebrews 12 says we "have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

This is far, far better news. God bless.

It's good news for her, if she believes it, but it won't help her children unless they believe it too -- and there's no telling what they'll be like. She can take wonderful care of them and teach them all about the Bible, but they will have their own free will that god gives to everyone, individually, and who know what they will do with it?

It's unfair of you to not point this out to her -- or do you just care about her soul and not her children's?

I feel for anyone who lets their fears about religion interfere with their decision to have kids, but if you subscribe to religious beliefs that include heaven and hell and free will, then, as a parent, you accept that any children you have can use their gift of free will, given with love and great sacrifice by God and His son, Jesus Christ, to reject God.

Statistics show that young people are the least likely to be affiliated with a religion - 30%. This means that even though some of them might be "spiritual" or believe in God, they don't follow the tenets of any organized religion. This number has been growing for decades and doesn't look like it's going to reverse any time soon, or ever. It's a phenomenon in all developed countries, with the US increase trailing many others. So any children born now are statistically less likely than earlier generations to follow Christianity. Any parent who firmly believes in the concept of Hell for people who use their free will to deny Christ, should be aware of that. Seems like their choices are to change their beliefs, or to take the chance that any kids they have will use their free will wisely, accept Christ and avoid hell.

This goes against the deepest idea of faith. That we would give in to fear about what may happen to our children so we reject God himself. Anyway, how would that lead to saving our children?

Fear is the enemy here, not God.

It goes against some ideas of faith but fits in perfectly with others. The free will argument is real and has been made eloquently and repeatedly right here on DCUM. Fear is used regularly in some faiths to encourage people to believe in god and specifically to accept Jesus Christ, or risk eternal punishment or separation from God.

Yes, but you asserted that the parent has to make a choice to change their beliefs based on the possibility that their child may go to hell. Why would a parent have to do that? Of course through free will a child (or anyone) can reject God. I guess I don't understand why a parent would rethink an entire belief system based on the fear of another person's choices.

They don't have to, but the pp said that was her fear about having children -- and she's right -- a mother ultimately can't control a child's free will to accept Christ or not. Her future kids -- or anyone's kids -- might burn in hell if they refuse Christ.

If you believe in the concept and consequences of free will, then you accept that it's a gift that god gives each person individually, irrespective of their parents beliefs or even if they are raised in a country where where they are unlikely to learn about Christ and the free will that God gave them through His sacrifice.

If the prospective parent changes her beliefs, then she could proceed with having children without this fear.

For pp who refuses to have children based on a fear of hell I would suggest she see a therapist for anxiety. It's obviously affecting her life is a destructive way.

And yes, as a parent I accept that my child will not adopt the same viewpoints that I have. That's part of parenting.

We have five children - four of them are adults and one is an older teen. My oldest is 25 and married. They attend a Unitarian Universalist Church. My second is 22. He is Catholic. My third is 21. She attends a Unity Church but was Wicca for a while and still sort of identifies with the Wiccan faith. Our fourth is 20. She is Buddhist. Our youngest is in high school and is an atheist..today. Our kids were raised in Christian churches, however all of those churches were very progressive and encouraged spiritual questioning and exploration. I think that's far healthier than the way I was raised. I truly believe I was harmed by my very southern baptist upbringing. I hear that fear in the previous poster's words. For me it took a lot of therapy and a lot (I mean a whole lot) of soul work to get past what I believe was religious abuse.

Funny how raising your children in a "progressive" church led to:
A Unitarian, which is basically an ethical society
A Wiccan
A Buddhist
An Atheist

The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

You think that God prefers we come to him because we have refused to question what we were taught as children? Better to have questioned and found your path to him willingly and with real love, not fear of damnation.

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

Are you a stealth atheist, trying to convince people to abandon Christianity by making it sound very unattractive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

And it's going to get harder. People are leaving fundamental Christian churches and for good reason. I am a Church Administrator in a progressive Christian church. Our new members' classes are literally doubling in size every time we offer them. Most of the new members are coming from the Southern Baptist and Catholic churches (nothing against the Catholics. I love the direction the Catholic Church seems to be taking!). Millennials especially are sick of divisive, exclusionary places of worship. They value diversity and acceptance. They want to be in a place where spiritual exploration and questioning are encouraged. They want a variety of classes and workshops that feed their mind and their body. They don't need to be told that one path is the "right" one and everyone else is destined for hell. That's not the loving God (Goddess, Creator, Universal Good, Allah, I Am, Spirit...whatever) they have grown to know.

And most of all - They have outgrown fears of eternal damnation for daring to question. God is bigger than that. He doesn't need to hold the threat of hell over people's heads in order to get them to listen to Him.

Next stop, pantheism and humanism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think God wants us to believe Him and accept His son. A Christian church should teach the faith, not encourage people to go wandering off in any direction. It's hard enough to get people in the door in the first place.

And it's going to get harder. People are leaving fundamental Christian churches and for good reason. I am a Church Administrator in a progressive Christian church. Our new members' classes are literally doubling in size every time we offer them. Most of the new members are coming from the Southern Baptist and Catholic churches (nothing against the Catholics. I love the direction the Catholic Church seems to be taking!). Millennials especially are sick of divisive, exclusionary places of worship. They value diversity and acceptance. They want to be in a place where spiritual exploration and questioning are encouraged. They want a variety of classes and workshops that feed their mind and their body. They don't need to be told that one path is the "right" one and everyone else is destined for hell. That's not the loving God (Goddess, Creator, Universal Good, Allah, I Am, Spirit...whatever) they have grown to know.

And most of all - They have outgrown fears of eternal damnation for daring to question. God is bigger than that. He doesn't need to hold the threat of hell over people's heads in order to get them to listen to Him.

You work in a Christian church, and you don't even know what to call God?

I work in a Christian church that acknowledges that people have many names for God. It's all the same God. Have you read the Bible? El, Yahweh, Father, Jehovah, Holy Spirit, Abba, Kyrios, ...to name just a very few. Do you think God, the loving Creator of all that is, gives a damn how we use our vocal chords to pronounce His name? Seriously? You don't think God is a little above a combination of letters? Maybe He's a little bigger than language? Allah is the God that Abraham knew. I could call him %$#@* and it would still be God.

That's what I mean by spiritually immature. At some point you outgrow the need to put "God" on a throne with a white beard and a book with a naughty list. God is the loving source of all that is. You could replace "God" with any name and it wouldn't change the nature of God.

Wow. It sounds like you don't even feel you need to give God any respect. Yes, the Bible records many names for God, but they're all His name for Himself. He tells us; we don't tell Him. I Timothy 6:16 says God "dwells in unapproachable light" and "to Him be honor and might forever." Moses had to take his sandals off when standing on the same mountain. His glory is unsurpassed and unimaginable. The Third Commandment says we are not to take His name in vain. Clearly, His name means something to Him. I'm sure you think you can call him whatever you want, but I'm also sure that if you start any of your prayers, "Hey, *&%#@!, give me..." He won't be answering those.

It's amazing a self-professed Christian has that cavalier an attitude toward the LORD who made you. You wouldn't speak like that to a child.

Well I don't typically pray "Hey God, give me....." because like most spiritual people, I've grown beyond seeing God as a magic genie granting wishes to those he favors. Prayer and meditation are huge parts of my life. I've been a prayer chaplain for years. When I pray, I seek guidance and wisdom. I pray for peace and clarity. I affirm wholeness, health, love, abundance, and the fact that Christ lives in every person on this planet. "Give me...." just isn't in my pray life. But again, if it works for you, then it works for you. I don't think God cares what we call Him, assuming of course that we speak from our hearts. I don't believe God can be fully expressed by any word we have. I think God is above language and definitely above religion.

Do you not understand that *&%#@ means nothing? It's a bunch of random keys on a keyboard. God is bigger than that, my friend.

Christ lives in Jews? Buddhists? How would you know such a thing? perhaps you mean you believe that goodness resides in all of us?