If AP is more popular/better/more flexible, why does FCPS put IB in all the lower-ranked schools?

[Anonymous]

The only high schools I've heard that's benefitted from IB is Marshall and that's because it's near Falls Church. Marshall kids though often opt for McLean or Madison so perhaps it's a wash. The rest seem to have more transfers out of the IB schools than in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whether many of the people upset about the increased cost of IB are merely complaining because they see it as money being spent at schools in the county that they already look down upon and would rather see the money spent on their child's better regarded school - after all, no increased amount of money is going to help those lesser regarded schools. Cue the deeply offended parent who swears they could care less about such things and only want to see money spent efficiently district wide.

Bingo!

Great point -- hadn't thought of that

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

I think you forget the title of this posting. Why does FCPS put IB in all the lower ranking schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

Not that poster. But, the IB program costs significantly more than the AP--and serves far fewer kids in FCPS. Coordinators alone cost close to 1M$

And not only that, but the kids that IB serves are where all the FARMs and ESL kids in the county are. We all know those kids will likely amount to nothing no matter how much money we throw at their schools.

[Anonymous]

Another potential solution no one seems to discuss would be to stop allowing transfers between IB and AP schools. I suspect many of these transfers are parent initiated to get their kid to a "better" school and that their kid could care less which one they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another potential solution no one seems to discuss would be to stop allowing transfers between IB and AP schools. I suspect many of these transfers are parent initiated to get their kid to a "better" school and that their kid could care less which one they do.

This is exactly what's happening. The difference in programs just gives these parents an excuse to send their child to a neighboring better performing school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

Not that poster. But, the IB program costs significantly more than the AP--and serves far fewer kids in FCPS. Coordinators alone cost close to 1M$

And not only that, but the kids that IB serves are where all the FARMs and ESL kids in the county are. We all know those kids will likely amount to nothing no matter how much money we throw at their schools.

It's not that they won't amount to anything, but it does seems like the program isn't necessarily helping them since you have parents transferring their kids out of the lower performing schools using AP as an excuse. Is there any data that shows similar low performing AP and IB schools and which one has more children taking and passing high level courses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

Not that poster. But, the IB program costs significantly more than the AP--and serves far fewer kids in FCPS. Coordinators alone cost close to 1M$

And not only that, but the kids that IB serves are where all the FARMs and ESL kids in the county are. We all know those kids will likely amount to nothing no matter how much money we throw at their schools.

Turning this around, what do you think about the IB program works to help these children and the property values of the neighborhoods they live in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

Not that poster. But, the IB program costs significantly more than the AP--and serves far fewer kids in FCPS. Coordinators alone cost close to 1M$

And not only that, but the kids that IB serves are where all the FARMs and ESL kids in the county are. We all know those kids will likely amount to nothing no matter how much money we throw at their schools.

Some of them are...but Marshall, Robinson, and South Lakes don't fit that demographic.

[Anonymous]

Another potential solution no one seems to discuss would be to stop allowing transfers between IB and AP schools. I suspect many of these transfers are parent initiated to get their kid to a "better" school and that their kid could care less which one they do.

Agree. Get rid of the program and it won't be a problem. Plus, it will save money and provide more flexibility. That money could be better used.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

Not that poster. But, the IB program costs significantly more than the AP--and serves far fewer kids in FCPS. Coordinators alone cost close to 1M$

And not only that, but the kids that IB serves are where all the FARMs and ESL kids in the county are. We all know those kids will likely amount to nothing no matter how much money we throw at their schools.

It's not that they won't amount to anything, but it does seems like the program isn't necessarily helping them since you have parents transferring their kids out of the lower performing schools using AP as an excuse. Is there any data that shows similar low performing AP and IB schools and which one has more children taking and passing high level courses?

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table10.pdf

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table11.pdf

It looks like over 10% of the graduating class at Falls Church were AP Scholars and less than 5% at Annandale got IB diplomas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

Not that poster. But, the IB program costs significantly more than the AP--and serves far fewer kids in FCPS. Coordinators alone cost close to 1M$

And not only that, but the kids that IB serves are where all the FARMs and ESL kids in the county are. We all know those kids will likely amount to nothing no matter how much money we throw at their schools.

It's not that they won't amount to anything, but it does seems like the program isn't necessarily helping them since you have parents transferring their kids out of the lower performing schools using AP as an excuse. Is there any data that shows similar low performing AP and IB schools and which one has more children taking and passing high level courses?

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table10.pdf

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table11.pdf

It looks like over 10% of the graduating class at Falls Church were AP Scholars and less than 5% at Annandale got IB diplomas.

Need to amend this, because you can become an AP Scholar, etc. before you are a senior. You can't tell from the tables how many of the 86 Falls Church students recognized by AP for their exam performance in 2013 were seniors. You can say that the 26 Annandale students who got IB diplomas were seniors.

It's interesting that, while the IB apparently has some type of "certificate" for students who don't pursue a diploma, that hasn't been reported separately.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't it stand to reason that kids from disadvantaged backgrounds might be less willing/able to earn the full IB degree, but perhaps better able to earn SOME credits through the AP programs?

Seems like those with less support at home or less advantages in life would be better suited to taking one or two AP classes (that last one year each) rather than taking a bunch of IB classes that last two years and have more substantive writing requirements. Just seems backwards to me -- the lower performing schools/students NEED AP more than they need IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

Not that poster. But, the IB program costs significantly more than the AP--and serves far fewer kids in FCPS. Coordinators alone cost close to 1M$

And not only that, but the kids that IB serves are where all the FARMs and ESL kids in the county are. We all know those kids will likely amount to nothing no matter how much money we throw at their schools.

It's not that they won't amount to anything, but it does seems like the program isn't necessarily helping them since you have parents transferring their kids out of the lower performing schools using AP as an excuse. Is there any data that shows similar low performing AP and IB schools and which one has more children taking and passing high level courses?

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table10.pdf

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table11.pdf

It looks like over 10% of the graduating class at Falls Church were AP Scholars and less than 5% at Annandale got IB diplomas.

AP scholar is in no way comparable to an IB diploma. An IB diploma candidate requires one to take 13 classes, in a variety of subjects, pass 6 exams, writes and extended essay, and do significant community service.

An AP scholar is someone who passed 3 exams. You can be an AP scholar with 3 classes in the same or similar disciplines (e.g. You could take AP Stats, AB Calc and BC Calc and make AP scholar, without even an honors level English, foreign language, history or science, or you could be like my kid who will likely take English Language, English Lit and AP Government, and graduate with very basic math and science).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster in particular who pops up on every IB thread and starts venting about how much IB costs the county and how she feels it isn't worth it. Sour grapes. She's bitter that other kids are benefitting from that funding and she wants the program eliminated.

Not that poster. But, the IB program costs significantly more than the AP--and serves far fewer kids in FCPS. Coordinators alone cost close to 1M$

And not only that, but the kids that IB serves are where all the FARMs and ESL kids in the county are. We all know those kids will likely amount to nothing no matter how much money we throw at their schools.

It's not that they won't amount to anything, but it does seems like the program isn't necessarily helping them since you have parents transferring their kids out of the lower performing schools using AP as an excuse. Is there any data that shows similar low performing AP and IB schools and which one has more children taking and passing high level courses?

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table10.pdf

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table11.pdf

It looks like over 10% of the graduating class at Falls Church were AP Scholars and less than 5% at Annandale got IB diplomas.

AP scholar is in no way comparable to an IB diploma. An IB diploma candidate requires one to take 13 classes, in a variety of subjects, pass 6 exams, writes and extended essay, and do significant community service.

An AP scholar is someone who passed 3 exams. You can be an AP scholar with 3 classes in the same or similar disciplines (e.g. You could take AP Stats, AB Calc and BC Calc and make AP scholar, without even an honors level English, foreign language, history or science, or you could be like my kid who will likely take English Language, English Lit and AP Government, and graduate with very basic math and science).

Be that as it may, the tables underscore that fewer students at IB schools have anything that they can point to (or that FCPS considers worth highlighting) to suggest that they benefitted from attending an IB school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't it stand to reason that kids from disadvantaged backgrounds might be less willing/able to earn the full IB degree, but perhaps better able to earn SOME credits through the AP programs?

Seems like those with less support at home or less advantages in life would be better suited to taking one or two AP classes (that last one year each) rather than taking a bunch of IB classes that last two years and have more substantive writing requirements. Just seems backwards to me -- the lower performing schools/students NEED AP more than they need IB.

I would agree, but the primary impetus for IB was not to benefit students from disadvantaged backgrounds, but to retain students from more advantaged backgrounds at schools with higher levels of low-income students. It hasn't worked, with one or two arguable exceptions.