If AP is more popular/better/more flexible, why does FCPS put IB in all the lower-ranked schools?

[Anonymous]

Very true. We live in the Marshall district and have heard most people say the IB program there is not as preferred as the AP program at McLean or Madison. I just think Marshall is lucky in that it straddles two very wealthy areas in McLean and Vienna plus draws kids who don't want to go to Falls Church for it's IB program. There are kids who want IB, just not as many as the ones who want AP. And Marshall has a fantastic academy program which is probably more of a draw than its IB program. Some of the children attending Marshall are happy to have some advanced classes while being able to take advantage of a great academy program not offered anywhere else close by. They also offer more Chinese than any of the other schools nearby I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very true. We live in the Marshall district and have heard most people say the IB program there is not as preferred as the AP program at McLean or Madison. I just think Marshall is lucky in that it straddles two very wealthy areas in McLean and Vienna plus draws kids who don't want to go to Falls Church for it's IB program. There are kids who want IB, just not as many as the ones who want AP. And Marshall has a fantastic academy program which is probably more of a draw than its IB program. Some of the children attending Marshall are happy to have some advanced classes while being able to take advantage of a great academy program not offered anywhere else close by. They also offer more Chinese than any of the other schools nearby I think.

This. Think of the math. Assume Marshall is IB and has 60 kids who want AP. 20 pupil place to each of Madison and McLean and the other 20 suck it up because they don't want to transfer to Falls Church. Outflow: 40 kids.

Assume Langley, McLean, Madison and Falls Church each has 30 kids who want IB, and that Marshall is the IB option for 1/2 the kids at Langley, Madison and Falls Church (the rest would go to either South Lakes or Stuart) and all the kids at McLean. Assume another 20 kids at Falls Church transfer just so they can attend a newly renovated school with higher test scores, and that 5 more transfer because they don't want to take a bus from their base school for an Academy course. Inflow: 100 kids.

The result: Marshall gets a net influx of 60 students, even though AP is more popular than IB. This is more or less how the math now works out at Marshall and South Lakes, another IB school surrounded by AP schools. Put IB in a bunch of lower-performing schools that are close to each other, however, and the math works in the opposite direction, which is why schools like Annandale, Lee and Mount Vernon usually see large net pupil placements out of the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very true. We live in the Marshall district and have heard most people say the IB program there is not as preferred as the AP program at McLean or Madison. I just think Marshall is lucky in that it straddles two very wealthy areas in McLean and Vienna plus draws kids who don't want to go to Falls Church for it's IB program. There are kids who want IB, just not as many as the ones who want AP. And Marshall has a fantastic academy program which is probably more of a draw than its IB program. Some of the children attending Marshall are happy to have some advanced classes while being able to take advantage of a great academy program not offered anywhere else close by. They also offer more Chinese than any of the other schools nearby I think.

The schools in that area are close enough to one another that it's easy for students who want AP to attend an AP school and take a bus (either in the morning or at mid-day) for an Academy course at Marshall. Falls Church also has some excellent Academy courses in the health sciences area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very true. We live in the Marshall district and have heard most people say the IB program there is not as preferred as the AP program at McLean or Madison. I just think Marshall is lucky in that it straddles two very wealthy areas in McLean and Vienna plus draws kids who don't want to go to Falls Church for it's IB program. There are kids who want IB, just not as many as the ones who want AP. And Marshall has a fantastic academy program which is probably more of a draw than its IB program. Some of the children attending Marshall are happy to have some advanced classes while being able to take advantage of a great academy program not offered anywhere else close by. They also offer more Chinese than any of the other schools nearby I think.

I know Honors and AP/IB classes get an extra .5 and 1.0 added to the grade. Is a non-AP or non-IB Academy class at Marshall, Falls Church, etc. also weighted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you live in an IB school district, you can transfer to an AP school - and vice versa. It is nice to have options.


Our AP option is a much lower performing school. My kids will be sticking with IB.

That is very rarely the case in FCPS. Maybe if you are zoned for Marshall and Falls Church is your only AP option. Otherwise the AP schools are usually more sought after. Look at all the transfers out of Annandale, Lee and Mount Vernon.

You nailed it. We're zoned for Marshall and definitely don't want Falls Church. We're about a half mile closer to Falls Church than we are to McLean. We're fortunate that Marshall is a great school, but I wish we had a better AP option.

The irony here is that Marshall became known as a much better school AFTER it introduced the IB program.

Actually, it is your comment that is ironical. The reason Marshall is now known as being better is because of the scenario above: Falls Church HS is widely thought to be sub-par, and many people would rather send their kids somewhere else. When Marshall became IB, that gave families an option to avoid Falls Church HS: they could pupil-place at Marshall for IB instead. That has helped channel some of the better students away from Falls Church and toward Marshall. That's why Marshall's standing has improved, not because of the IB program.

Marshall's reputation improved as the neighborhoods that feed into it rose in price. I graduated from Marshall in the mid 90s and it was a great school. I had some of the most dedicated and passionate teachers I have ever encountered and it was an overall great experience. At the time, the media was hell bent on portraying it as a gang-ridden school for some reason, but that simply wasn't true. There were several wannabe gang types that liked to graffiti gang names and act tough, and one fight in my four years there that some claimed was "gang related" but it lasted about 30 seconds before the admin broke it up and no one was even notably injured.
As people started tearing down pimmit hills ramblers to build their McMansions, tysons became more developed, and the area began to draw a more affluent crowd, the reputation of Marshall began to improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you live in an IB school district, you can transfer to an AP school - and vice versa. It is nice to have options.


Our AP option is a much lower performing school. My kids will be sticking with IB.

That is very rarely the case in FCPS. Maybe if you are zoned for Marshall and Falls Church is your only AP option. Otherwise the AP schools are usually more sought after. Look at all the transfers out of Annandale, Lee and Mount Vernon.

You nailed it. We're zoned for Marshall and definitely don't want Falls Church. We're about a half mile closer to Falls Church than we are to McLean. We're fortunate that Marshall is a great school, but I wish we had a better AP option.

The irony here is that Marshall became known as a much better school AFTER it introduced the IB program.

Actually, it is your comment that is ironical. The reason Marshall is now known as being better is because of the scenario above: Falls Church HS is widely thought to be sub-par, and many people would rather send their kids somewhere else. When Marshall became IB, that gave families an option to avoid Falls Church HS: they could pupil-place at Marshall for IB instead. That has helped channel some of the better students away from Falls Church and toward Marshall. That's why Marshall's standing has improved, not because of the IB program.

Marshall's reputation improved as the neighborhoods that feed into it rose in price. I graduated from Marshall in the mid 90s and it was a great school. I had some of the most dedicated and passionate teachers I have ever encountered and it was an overall great experience. At the time, the media was hell bent on portraying it as a gang-ridden school for some reason, but that simply wasn't true. There were several wannabe gang types that liked to graffiti gang names and act tough, and one fight in my four years there that some claimed was "gang related" but it lasted about 30 seconds before the admin broke it up and no one was even notably injured.
As people started tearing down pimmit hills ramblers to build their McMansions, tysons became more developed, and the area began to draw a more affluent crowd, the reputation of Marshall began to improve.

There was a gang-related murder of a teenager in the Marshall parking lot in 1998. The victim was a former Marshall student then attending Pimmit Hills Alternative and, ironically, it happened at Marshall because he'd thought he'd be safer on the school grounds. I don't think you can blame the press for covering that incident.

We had a child at Marshall who graduated several years ago. Jay Pearson gets the credit in our book for turning the place around. He literally cleaned the place up and held the teachers, some of whom were just going through the motions and waiting to retire, to higher standards. We moved, and I don't know much about his successor, but hopefully he will maintain Jay's high standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say pare it down to one IB HS per region. 5 regions would mean 5 high schools

Region I: South Lakes
Region II: Annandale, Marshall or Stuart
Region III: Edison, Lee or Mount Vernon
Region IV: Robinson
Region V: does not have one currently: which should switch to IB: Chantilly, Westfield or Woodson (Fairfax not a contender because of Fairfax City)

Regions II and III are too heavily IB.


None of those schools in Region V want IB. Chantilly and Westfield are in high-tech territory; those folks heavily prefer AP. In addition, Chantilly is largely Asian, and those communities also tend to prefer the structure of AP over IB, which requires a ton of essay writing. FCPS tried to introduce IB to Woodson years ago and the parents rebelled. I think that battle has been fought and lost.

I tend to agree four IB schools is enough - would keep it at South Lakes, Marshall, Lee and Robinson. Edison has an Academy, and Mount Vernon has some special programs associated with being the school for families on base at Ft. Belvoir. Limiting IB in that area to Lee might increase the number of pupil placements to that school.

So how do we get FCPS to get on board with this pairing down of the IB program. Seems like a good year to make the change. They could say they're using the savings on providing busing for high schools to start later.

It will be hard since they are continuing to go all in on IB by adding IB in elementary schools. I'm guessing IB won't get removed from the high schools if they are spending all that money on new IB elementary programmes. For that reason, Stuart, for example, is stuck with IB.

That's too bad. The PYP and MYP are a big joke.

What's your basis for saying that? My kids go to Belvedere (the only PYP school in FCPS) and they LOVE the PYP units. It seems to be a really engaging curriculum and IMHO is a great option for giving different learning opportunities to kids who aren't in AAP. I hope FCPS adds it in more elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

Here is how it works

If you put an IB school the middle of a bunch of AP schools,all the kids who want IB in the AP schools will transfer there.

If you put an AP school the middle of a bunch of IB schools,all the kids who want AP in the IB schools will transfer there.

[Anonymous]

Ib used to be inferior to ap until colleges allowed ib credits. Now they are both the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ib used to be inferior to ap until colleges allowed ib credits. Now they are both the same.

Depends upon the program at a specific college. The treatment of IB HL and AP credits is not necessarily the same.

[Anonymous]

I think they thought IB would be more sought after than it has turned out to be and thought that it would attract kids to the lower-ranked schools.

Years ago, when the closest IB school had less than a stellar rep, they made a big push to get advanced kids from my daughter's middle school. It didn't work.

[Anonymous]

When one wants to transfer from an IB school to an AP school, are you allowed to do that in 9th grade even if you aren't taking AP classes in 9th grade? Do you have to take an AP class every semester to remain at the AP school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When one wants to transfer from an IB school to an AP school, are you allowed to do that in 9th grade even if you aren't taking AP classes in 9th grade? Do you have to take an AP class every semester to remain at the AP school?

Yes.

http://www.fcps.edu/dss/osp/StudentRegistration/student-transfer/hs.shtml

A student who requests a transfer for the AP or IB program must commit to the advanced academic program for grades
9, 10, 11, and 12:
a. Each student is expected to pursue a schedule of prerequisite courses for each program in the ninth and
tenth grade years.
b. Each student must take a minimum of four AP or IB classes over the four years, with at least three by the
end of the junior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When one wants to transfer from an IB school to an AP school, are you allowed to do that in 9th grade even if you aren't taking AP classes in 9th grade? Do you have to take an AP class every semester to remain at the AP school?

Yes.

http://www.fcps.edu/dss/osp/StudentRegistration/student-transfer/hs.shtml

A student who requests a transfer for the AP or IB program must commit to the advanced academic program for grades
9, 10, 11, and 12:
a. Each student is expected to pursue a schedule of prerequisite courses for each program in the ninth and
tenth grade years.
b. Each student must take a minimum of four AP or IB classes over the four years, with at least three by the
end of the junior year.

Wrong - the "prerequisite courses" do not have to be AP courses. In 9th grade, Honors English, for example, might be considered a prerequisite for taking AP English in 11th or 12th grade.

There are a lot of students who pupil place out of IB schools and take AP World History, AP US History and AP Psychology by the end of their junior year to satisfy the transfer requirement, in whole or in part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you live in an IB school district, you can transfer to an AP school - and vice versa. It is nice to have options.


Our AP option is a much lower performing school. My kids will be sticking with IB.

That is very rarely the case in FCPS. Maybe if you are zoned for Marshall and Falls Church is your only AP option. Otherwise the AP schools are usually more sought after. Look at all the transfers out of Annandale, Lee and Mount Vernon.

You nailed it. We're zoned for Marshall and definitely don't want Falls Church. We're about a half mile closer to Falls Church than we are to McLean. We're fortunate that Marshall is a great school, but I wish we had a better AP option.

The irony here is that Marshall became known as a much better school AFTER it introduced the IB program.

Actually, it is your comment that is ironical. The reason Marshall is now known as being better is because of the scenario above: Falls Church HS is widely thought to be sub-par, and many people would rather send their kids somewhere else. When Marshall became IB, that gave families an option to avoid Falls Church HS: they could pupil-place at Marshall for IB instead. That has helped channel some of the better students away from Falls Church and toward Marshall. That's why Marshall's standing has improved, not because of the IB program.

Marshall's reputation improved as the neighborhoods that feed into it rose in price. I graduated from Marshall in the mid 90s and it was a great school. I had some of the most dedicated and passionate teachers I have ever encountered and it was an overall great experience. At the time, the media was hell bent on portraying it as a gang-ridden school for some reason, but that simply wasn't true. There were several wannabe gang types that liked to graffiti gang names and act tough, and one fight in my four years there that some claimed was "gang related" but it lasted about 30 seconds before the admin broke it up and no one was even notably injured.
As people started tearing down pimmit hills ramblers to build their McMansions, tysons became more developed, and the area began to draw a more affluent crowd, the reputation of Marshall began to improve.

There was a gang-related murder of a teenager in the Marshall parking lot in 1998. The victim was a former Marshall student then attending Pimmit Hills Alternative and, ironically, it happened at Marshall because he'd thought he'd be safer on the school grounds. I don't think you can blame the press for covering that incident.

We had a child at Marshall who graduated several years ago. Jay Pearson gets the credit in our book for turning the place around. He literally cleaned the place up and held the teachers, some of whom were just going through the motions and waiting to retire, to higher standards. We moved, and I don't know much about his successor, but hopefully he will maintain Jay's high standards.

I grew up in a neighborhood zoned for Marshall and yes, the neighborhood kids used to talk about how "dangerous" it was as if it gave them street cred in our totally normal, upper middle class neighborhood. It was all talk though. I graduated in mid 2000 and never saw anything untoward. I also did IB and feel like it prepared me incredibly well for the rigor of college. It's only getting better and better as a school.