If not Basis or Latin, where?
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Anonymous
| Regarding APs, it should be pointed out that many of the vaunted schools in the burbs put a heavy emphasis on APs, with 8,9, and 10 AP courses becoming the expectation there. But I think one key difference where it comes to BASIS is that they start learning material geared toward the APs a lot earlier in the curriculum, and while yes, they may end up taking a lot of APs, it's able to be more spread out at BASIS as opposed to just being a huge stressful cram of APs in the junior and senior years as it is in the other schools. |
Anonymous
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I am not so sure about the extent of the cramming for AP exams at BASIS since the curriculum appears to be well thought out. For example, if a student starts in 5th grade, they have classics which encompasses ancient history. For 6th, they have US History. For 7th, world history and for many in 8th AP world history. BASIS tries to lay the foundation and build on it from 5th grade on so that they are truly ready by the time they take the AP exam. Another example, is the sciences at BASIS in which the students have Biology, Chemistry, and Physics every year in some shape or form from 5th to 8th grade which lays the foundation for many AP science courses. Again, English seems to have a purposely thought out curricula to lay the foundation for AP English courses. So as you can see, BASIS has carefully planned for students to be ready for AP exams by coordinating curricula. Still don't buy it. The Basis Tuscon teacher talked about kids taking as many as 3 AP tests freshman year, and some juniors taking 8 or 9. So, that's what, ultimately at least a dozen, and maybe as many as 15 AP tests for the best students? No program could have planned well for that volume. My niece, who attends an average US embassy-sponsored international school abroad, was admited to Harvard and Brown (yesterday). She's still waiting to hear from Stanford. She did the full IB, the equivalent of 6 or 7 AP classes/tests, not a dozen. Her extra curriculars were very strong. The Basis HS approach doesn't sound balanced, or enjoyable for most by jr. or sr. year. Raise the bar, great, but why not along the line of privates, vs. European or Asian cram schools? My spouse, who has a PhD in social sciences and speaks four languages, went to an ordinary academic HS in Austria. He says the curriculum and approach was so punishing toward the end that he hated it. |
Anonymous
DEAR BASIS TUCSON TEACHER: please don't go just yet. We have really learned a lot from you. Truly. Sorry I slammed you so hard. And I still have some crucial questions I want your answers to if it is at all possible. You have to understand that we have a tween daughter at BASIS right now who is excited about algebra, learning more than she ever has in her life, actually getting some sleep every night, and making new friends. BASIS is her third school in three years. She had a terrible time her last year at our local elementary school (silly us for assuming that because we had never even heard of a bad teacher before (we have a few kids), the school was so good, and so was our daughter, that we didn't really have to worry). Had it not been for a nasty comment the teacher made on our daughter's last report card we would never have known that our poor child had spent her entire year sad and confused because she could not please this woman no matter how hard she tried. She is not a complainer, thought it was her own fault, and could tell that we were grappling with some fairly serious issues of our own. So she decided to keep it to herself and cope as best she could. But it absolutely shattered her self confidence and we had no idea she was so miserable until the year was basically over. My husband practically had to restrain me at our final parent teacher "conference" because all I wanted to do was get in her face and say how DARE you make my daughter feel like shit and doubt herself at this critical transition time in her educational career. The following fall the teacher did not return to the school. Fortunately for all of us, last year she had the good fortune to attend Washington Latin, where all of the teachers recognized her intelligence, nurtured her intellectual curiosity, applauded her work ethic, rewarded her academic performance, and wrote such sweet comments on her report cards that I will keep them forever. When we went to Parent Teacher conferences last fall all the teachers wanted to talk to us to tell us how much they loved our daughter, what a great kid we had, and the enormous potential they saw in her. She was always excited to go to school, and the positive reinforcement she got from them and from us provided the critical boost she needed to her self esteem before she went on to BASIS and went a long way towards preparing her academically for such a rigorous environment. As other parents have noted, Latin and Basis are completely different types of schools. At BASIS our daughter gets evaluated through tests and quizzes weekly in almost every subject, and whether she has difficulty with the homework determines how much time she needs to spend studying for tests and quizzes. Her CJ alerts us to any potential areas in which she might be struggling way before it becomes a crisis. On the other hand, we cannot just turn on a computer and find out when her tests are and what her homework is for the night the way parents can at Washington Latin. If she is not sufficiently organized, we cannot easily pick up the pieces and bail her out. 30 Algebra problems each night is a lot more work than I imagined/remembered, and I think it is excessive because some of the problems are basically redundant, and when they are covering new concepts sometimes it seems like they go too fast. We do not have that much contact with her teachers, and her report cards usually contain only grades and no comments. She gets public positive reinforcement for good academic performance at the awards ceremonies each grading period, and she appears to like most of her teachers and to feel comfortable asking them questions when she is confused. The organization required to do well on the precomprehensive and comprehensive exams varies from class to class. Some teachers really do a fantastic job of clearly stating exactly what you need to know in order to do well. Others either do not want to make the effort or feel the kids should be able to figure it out on their own. These exams have definitely caused even my high performing daughter some anxiety, but we try to remind her that in 6th grade her grades do not really matter, and that this is a marathon not a sprint. The key in these early years is to learn how to effectively study for these tests and how to have your performance accurately reflect your knowledge of the subject matter. I think it would be amazing if she started high school or even college no longer being afraid of midterms or finals. Imagine how freeing that would be. But obviously that takes dedication to studying how to effectively study in each class, which sometimes there is just no time for. Most of the tests are multiple choice, class participation is usually not required and does not really play a role in your final grade, and homework seems to matter only if you do not do it. If your child is not willing to work hard and stay organized, BASIS would definitely not be a good fit. Similarly there are basically no brownie points. I think my daughter feels that she knows and likes her teachers, and that the feeling is mutual. She definitely benefited from taking the classes that were offered to everyone during the spring after she was admitted, especially because it helped her get ahead in math. She also got to know some of the teachers before school started. The BOSS program, which is offered in the summer before the year starts, is really essential to figuring out how the school works, especially for someone who is not naturally completely organized. My assumption is that as more and more kids leave and the school becomes smaller, and it will feel less like an assembly line. But I definitely understand what the Tucson teacher is talking about in terms of the dangers of rapid expansion and becoming a brand rather than an individual school. However, if I am correct that DC is the only inner city school so far for BASIS, as Fagin says in Oliver Twist, "I think they're going to have to think it out again." I am NOT suggesting that they not try. Just that if the populations of the schools are different, educating that population may require a different approach. So here are my questions for BASIS TUCSON TEACHER: In the "about us" you posted the link to, I see BASIS Corp but the Board is headed by Barret (the former head of Intel) etc and I find no evidence of a for- profit management company - what am I missing and where can I find it? Most of these big wigs don't need to be extraordinarily compensated because they were successes in their previous lives, Stanford lawyers and then profs (the kind as I said above could always walk away.) Seems like a great group who could not possibly still be grubbing for money. As I said, if the Blocks make out like Beltway Bandits (the worthless wealthy K Street lobbyist lawyer slugs here who send their kids to private school) after slogging it out and perhaps slugging it out in the trenches for so long, THEY above anyone else have earned it. The kudos, the admiration AND the money because they took all the risks. In terms of your salaries and retaining good teachers, Olga said last year that most of you all only stay about 5 years and then go off to grad school. They seem to like your young enthusiasm kind of like Teach for America except you seem to have better teaching on actual teaching, and depending on what grades and classes you instruct you have the chance of actually teaching SOME kids who actually want to and can learn. And everyone who works for the federal government has not gotten a raise in three years - Obama has frozen our salaries too. Perhaps more importantly Michelle Rhee's new book is not your Bible (she is our former DC school superintendent who REALLY disappointed a lot of people) and the present one aint doin much better IMO but that is business as usual here - DC is different. When I went off to college I was the kid from the city where the mayor was a known coke addict who had just gotten caught on videotape smoking crack and banging a prostitute, and GUESS what Mr. Barry is doing now? He is back on the DC City council. I kid you not. We reelected our convicted felon because he redeemed himself somehow. You really have to try hard to find a more dysfunctional city and public school system. I see a VERY ambitious expansion plan in the next few years in other parts of AZ, but right now DC is the only non AZ school, which means they cannot let it fail, and they define failure not only as packing up and leaving but as lowering their standards - so what are they going to do? You said this for profit management company rents the building to the schools. I thought the school bought the building in DC. There is a big difference to us here because there are many charter schools, including Latin, that have been moving around for years and years trying to find permanent homes. And if they could raise the rent they could squeeze us although I don't see why they would want to... I see plans to open a school in San Antonio next year, which would make two outside of AZ, and I worry that San Antonio TX and DC are characterized as only "affiliated schools" instead of just additional BASIS schools on that website - any guess as to why? And I do think DC is going to keep the Blocks and others hands and plates full, and so this new Texas school in 2013 might be a mistake but it is already up there, so it seems a done deal I see a great idea that a k-4th will open in AZ soon, but don't want that to happen here right now - have you read about our pre 5th grade charter nightmares here? The hottest charter accepted 6% - a lower acceptance rate than Harvard University for undergrad? THAT is how desperate people are here for safe halfway decent schools So yes, the first 2 flagship schools started in 98 and 03, and in 11-13 you all are opening a lot more IN AZ. Are they in the same type of neighborhoods? I am surprised that they are opening some where they are admitting thru 10th - maybe these ones have overflow from the flagships? Are the lotteries for those 2 schools insane? Do those two schools have to turn lots of folks away like Latin this year - 900 apps for 100 slots? And remember, most of the Latin posters here state quite openly that they are not expecting or looking for Ivies. You can take a look at their acceptance and scholarship list, how much does that resemble the flagship schools (we heard that University of Arizona is a gut, but a real university) Are ANY of the AZ schools looking at a population like the DC public school population - primarily AA black, 2nd or 3rd or more generation who were stuck or stayed after the white flight after Brown v Board of Ed, major mortality, incarceration, pregnancy, permanent underclass? My husband went to school in the South Bronx in NYC and, with the exception of one child from his elementary school, the kids who did not get in to his Gifted and Talented program in 3rd grade for minority students - none of the kids were white anyway - which was the first step out, are dead, in jail, in gangs, or moms who had to drop out before graduating high school. He did not even try to guess who was not on drugs. We literally went thru his 3rd grade class picture this fall, and it was that bad.... Although a lot of those kids were Puerto Rican, which does not mean they weren't black as well, just not AA. But mostly they were very poor, and had no home support, and the gangs etc. Please tell me that you all are not in totally uncharted waters here, because if you were you would not be opening another school in Texas next year... Please tell me what they intend to do with our 7th and 8th graders who have been screwed until now. Someone talked to one teacher who said she had been reading one of his/her kids the questions in a science class all year out loud, and writing down the answers because the kid CANNOT READ. I assume that child will not be around next year, but THAT I find tragic. It is the 6th, but mostly 7th and 8th graders whose souls I worry about being crushed in this city. That poor child may have an undiagnosed learning disability, but even so, I do not believe that child has a real chance at BASIS, or LATIN, or maybe even a decent life because they are already in 7th or 8th grade. THAT is the kind of school I am talking about. THAT is the kind of school some of these kids are coming from. Social promotion and functional illiteracy and the TRAGEDY is that s/he was getting most of the science questions on the tests RIGHT because s/he was listening and understanding what was going on in class and could understand and remember it well enough to pass the tests and quizzes. Are you all seriously admitting 10th graders to one of your new AZ schools next year who might be like that, or is that just not possible because either everyone in AZ knows what BASIS is like now and no mom would knowingly do that to her kid, Finally, no matter how many kids initially get admitted, won't the attrition mean that you eventually end up with a small school that is not racially or economically at all like the city it is in? Remember, when you talk about options here, every charter high school, even the test in ones, are majority AA. That is also true for the best public high schools as well. What do you think is going to happen here? |
Anonymous
| pp why did you switch from Latin to Basis in 6th grade, if you don't mind.----would help those of us trying to decide between the two. |
Anonymous
The BASIS brochure notes that the average BASIS completes 8 or 9 AP courses by the time they graduate, not 12 to 15. |
Anonymous
The school bought a ton of new technology, but did no teacher training on how to use it most effectively in the classroom and the administration has been not willing to discuss the developmental implications of the technology they chose (which cannot be monitored by an outside user, like a parent or teacher, efficiently). The technology is not being used effectively in the classroom by more than a couple of people, but those teachers and those classes are always used as the example for what is going on in the whole school. There are a host of field trips, some multi-day, that do not have a connection to what is being done in the classroom. Follow up or preparation for these trips is minimal and the "service learning" is tangential at best. Schedule changes result in cancellation of classes, often without rescheduling, such that some sections have now met a week and a half less than their peers (but the pictures from the pep rally sure look good in the alumni brochure). Individual educational testing data is no longer shared with the teachers, which makes differentiation and accommodation for students impossible. Also, we are not supposed to discuss discipline issues, even amongst our colleagues. This last one really ties my hands because if something happens outside my classroom and I don't know about it, I cannot be proactive about preventing that from manifesting in my classroom. Now, most of the time classes run smoothly, so it's not a "problem", but I would like to think that the school where my kids are learning isn't waiting for the problem to happen, but is actively working to put every resource at the hand of their teachers to know them and educate them in the best way possible. Add that I'd be paying a significant amount of money, even with reduced tuition, and the current situation becomes unacceptable to me. I don't feel like I can know *all* my students, so I can't see how other teachers will truly know my kids. We are doing our research right now with regard to other private schools, but the value added doesn't seem worth the tuition at this point. There are good public options, and although the lottery systems seems not for the faint of heart, we are hearing many very positive stories from friends who have decided to keep their children in DCPS or DCPCS. |
Anonymous
Thomas Jefferson graduates average in excess of 7 AP exams per student, and as others have pointed out, several other top area schools also place heavy emphasis on APs, or the IB program which assesses on six subject areas (similar to 6 AP courses). But I think one difference as noted above is that BASIS starts going over the AP material earlier, allowing it to be spread out, as opposed to being a big intensive cram in that's primarily just in the junior and senior years as it is with many other schools. So apparently the suggestion is that TJ, George Marshall, George Mason, Winston Churchill and the other top schools in the burbs have also gotten it all very wrong, and apparently all of those Ivies and top universities in the nation that are accepting those students also have it all very wrong. And so the far better alternative in the area is what? |
Anonymous
Well no one has the answer to your last question... that is why we are all here! But I think you are placing a rather charitable spin on doing the 1st AP (World History) in 8th grade, up to 3 APs in 9th grade including Calc AB, etc. as "spreading out" the load. Isn't it just replacing a two year cram with a 4 year cram? (BASIS doesn't do APs in senior year). And what sacrifices are 8th and 9th graders making to accomplish this feat? But as long as the pros and cons from boosters and critics are on the table, each family can make an informed choice and that is the best we can hope for. |
Anonymous
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So you're admitting, there isn't a better option.
And you tell me, what sacrifices are they making - what was it that they were supposed to be doing instead, and are missing out on? The kids at BASIS will have already been exposed to world history since 5th grade - And in a way that beats having the same old disorganized, unstructured and substance-lacking (and often wrong) fluff about the pilgrims and the axe that chopped down the cherry tree repeated year after year as many schools have been doing. The "traditional" way is the reason why American kids have far less understanding of world history and geography than their peers in Europe and Asia do. BTW, doing the math, spreading 2 years out over 4 years is half the cram per year (if there are such units of measure) ;^) So, if you are worried about BASIS kids getting stressed out or burned out, consider that it works out to be twice as much intensity and pressure for the non-BASIS kids at those prestigious suburban schools. |
Anonymous
Well, your mind seems to be pretty made up for your kid, so I'll admit to you that there isn't a better option.  On the math issue, BASIS I think actually does a fantastic job getting math results because they work the kids incredibly hard from 5th grade on. But I don't see how starting with 7th grade math in 5th grade and getting to AP Calculus in 9th grade is less of a cram that the ordinary math track. And BASIS will tell you as much... their approach requires hard work every day for all but the most gifted of students. As a parent, I simply dont want my child to spend that energy getting to AB calculus by 9th grade (a feat I am not aware is attempted at any other school, suburban or otherwise), especially since I am pretty sure my 10 year old would not be ready to set that goal for herself. If your kid is up for the challenge and can keep a happy mindset and pursue a broad set of extracurricular activities at the same time then more power to you both!
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Anonymous
The overwhelming majority of kids will not be taking Calculus in 9th grade at BASIS. In fact, there are several pathways for math at BASIS and one includes Calculus for 11th and 12th grade. Also, not all students will take AP World History in 8th grade since there is an alternative World History as well. I think their goals is try to try and ready as many kids as possible, but knowing that this is not possible for every kid they do have different pathways. |
Anonymous
Don't be so sure your 10 yo isn't interested in setting high goals. Mine has surprised me this year at BASIS. Some have been just waiting for this kind of opportunity to prove to themselves and everyone else that they are up to the challenge. |
Anonymous
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[Yes, every 8th grader had to take history. The book used is a high school AP book.]
The overwhelming majority of kids will not be taking Calculus in 9th grade at BASIS. In fact, there are several pathways for math at BASIS and one includes Calculus for 11th and 12th grade. Also, not all students will take AP World History in 8th grade since there is an alternative World History as well. I think their goals is try to try and ready as many kids as possible, but knowing that this is not possible for every kid they do have different pathways. |
Anonymous
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From their posted course sequence it looks like there is an alternate path for 8th grade World History.
Also, I don't think anyone mentioned the senior-year project / capstone at BASIS, something most other schools don't offer. |
Anonymous
I also looked more carefully at the curriculum, and realized that the grade on the APs is usually a part of the grade for the course where an AP exam is an option. At my DC private, taking the APs was optional and had nothing to do with your grade - so they are "cramming" for the course, of which the AP is a part. Maybe Ivy Interviewer missed that critical info. I don't know whether this is par for the course these days, but it was not in mine. Olga also said at an open house last year that if you get a 5 on the AP you get an A for the year, no matter what your grade would be based on your other work in the class. She said that was to lower the possibility of arbitrariness if a teacher and a student were just not getting along and there was a risk that the student's grade might be affected. I LOVE that. I would be very curious to know from parents who have kids older than ours what AP's are like these days - when I went to school 25 some years ago the APs were easy in liberal arts - I got a 5 on all the ones I took - Latin, US History, and English. The classes were much harder. My spouse, a math and science guy, got the same but took what I consider to be impossible APs - calculus, physics, etc. I also think the option of leaving half way through 12th grade and doing an internship is an amazing opportunity offered only at BASIS so far as I know, and for the science/computer types it might actually lead to scholarship money and possible summer and permanent employment. In addition, if the spot is obtained before college apps are due, what a great thing to add to your profile. Most kids just slack off after the last grades the colleges see pre-admission decisions, so this may not only broaden their life experiences but keep them from wasting their time. What a great idea! |