Eliot-Hines Middle School

[Anonymous]

6:20, your point is? One event surely preceeded the other, plainly put one was the result of the other. A violation occured and a movement was created.

6:34, I think you do give a **** about the color. The color that you give a crap about is "green." I am not hating the player in you, but the games that people like you play is a nuisance.

Those who are hired to reform the school are not worth their weight unless the rich and educated from Capitol Hill provide their $$$ and expertise. I chuckle.

I suggest the next principal panel should require an entry fee or a college transcript submission for those willing to sit on the panel.

There's no win/win situation here as you can see the poor have moved out of the city and rich have moved in and there's still problems.


I don't think it is a move backwards, I just think it is plan to move those of us to the back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who are hired to reform the school are not worth their weight unless the rich and educated from Capitol Hill provide their $$$ and expertise.

Scratch "expertise", and II think you're right, actually. Because no one knows how to educate a homogeneously poor population of kids.

Look. Time for some real talk. Being poor is awful. Hopefully this isn't a surprise to anyone. That's why we want to alleviate poverty through social safety net, education, etc, etc... Why does being poor suck? Because it has all sorts of negative socioeconomic consequences. Poor kids are more likely to have developmental problems. Often poor kids are often malnourished. Poor kids' parents tend to be less involved in their kids' education, either because they're working 16 hour days, or because they're substance abusers. Any of this stuff ringing a bell?

These things are all unjust, and they're all incredibly corrosive, and they're not the fault of poor kids (or their parents, for the most part). Again, that's why ending poverty is something that we all want to do.

But because all of the above, a school with very high numbers of poor children just doesn't work.

There's no win/win situation here as you can see the poor have moved out of the city and rich have moved in and there's still problems.

The overwhelming percentage of kids in DCPS (and charters) are poor. With few exceptions, the DCPS schools in which the number of poor kids is below 50% are successful. The DCPS schools in which the number of poor kids is above 50% are not. So the solution to DC middle schools in general, and to any single DCPS middle school in particular, is to get to the point where at least a solid majority of the student population is middle-class, with all the benefits that entails. How you get there is the question.

And it has nothing to do with "the rich" being education experts. It has everything to do with *middle-class* families leading to positive social outcomes--and poverty leading to poor ones.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it is a move backwards, I just think it is plan to move those of us to the back.

One more thing: if you're concerned about poor kids "being left behind" the answer is to fight like mad to get as much market-rate housing built in DC as you can, and encourage middle-class families with kids to live here. Because poor kids are going to succeed to the extent that they're the minority in their schools (and not racial minority, but economic). If DC can't get to that point, the overwhelming majority of poor kids in DC are going to continue to fail.

(PS: Can't tell you how much I hate that "being left behind" crap, anyway. As a thought experiment: if you have a city with 100,000 residents, and none of them are above the poverty line, and you somehow manage to convince 100,000 middle- and upper-middle class non-residents to move in and become residents, the original 100,000 have not been "left behind". They are, in fact, significantly better off than they were.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alternative is to leave the city or take their copious $$$ out of the city or to private schools. Do you want to argue that is better for the umderprivileged kids of Dc? Talk about a move backwards.

Actually another alternative is to attend whatever school works best for your family rather than expect all families at Brent (or whatever) "Stick together" and attend Ellio Hine en masse. I'm talking about leaving the city. I'm talking about staying put and opening your eyes to all the other possiblities for middle school beyond Elliot hine. Elliot hine may work for some, but KIPP or LAtin or IT or DCPrep or BASIS or homeschooling or private will work for others. Setting aside what is best for the individual families, is it really best for the city if people subvert their own best interests just to bolster the success of one, struggling, school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alternative is to leave the city or take their copious $$$ out of the city or to private schools. Do you want to argue that is better for the umderprivileged kids of Dc? Talk about a move backwards.

Actually another alternative is to attend whatever school works best for your family rather than expect all families at Brent (or whatever) "Stick together" and attend Ellio Hine en masse. I'm talking about leaving the city. I'm talking about staying put and opening your eyes to all the other possiblities for middle school beyond Elliot hine. Elliot hine may work for some, but KIPP or LAtin or IT or DCPrep or BASIS or homeschooling or private will work for others. Setting aside what is best for the individual families, is it really best for the city if people subvert their own best interests just to bolster the success of one, struggling, school?

Oops! I hit the submit button on accident! I meant I'm NOT talking about leaving the city.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure where this conversation is headed but wanted to throw another piece in the mix: With few exceptions, colleges have dramatically shifted in their composition in even just the last two years, they are more diverse than ever, and I suspect many workplaces have too. And census data recently drove home the point that, with few exceptions, where people live it's more diverse all around. So I don't think we'd be doing any child a favor by sheltering them for that reality. If you feel moved "back to the bus" then speak up. say why, how, and what you feel can be done. Times do change, not always for the better, but it's important to question whether answers need to change too, that includes what (middle) schools look like and how they operate.

[Anonymous]

The advantage of everyone sticking together is to pool resources and improve the school making things better for all involved. If everyone works in their own self-interest, Elliot Hine is likely to remain the same under-enrolled, under-performing school it has been for a while. If children on the hill who are well-prepared for middle school thanks to their highly performing elementary schools decide as a group to attend Elliot Hine, there will be a bigger cohort of high performing students. The larger mass of students peforming at or above grade level will allow the school to offer more advanced offerings at earlier grades. The existing population that already chooses Elliot Hine would not be displaced as the school is currently well below capacity. Additionally, they would also have more opportunites and a stronger academic peer group which, according to existing research would help their education outcomes..

[Anonymous]

PP Here. I used the phrase $$$ and expertise. What I meant was not educational expertise, but rather the skills that can really support an individual school through the PTA and LSAT: fundraising, event planning, grant writing, sourcing enrichment activities, community organizing, lobbying public officials, public speaking, data management and interpretation, knowledge of facilities management, legal knowledge.

All of these skills can be brought to a school on a volunteer basis by professional parents who also often have flexibility to spend time at the school. This is an unquestionable benefit to ALL the kids in that particular school and by extension, school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The advantage of everyone sticking together is to pool resources and improve the school making things better for all involved. If everyone works in their own self-interest, Elliot Hine is likely to remain the same under-enrolled, under-performing school it has been for a while. If children on the hill who are well-prepared for middle school thanks to their highly performing elementary schools decide as a group to attend Elliot Hine, there will be a bigger cohort of high performing students. The larger mass of students peforming at or above grade level will allow the school to offer more advanced offerings at earlier grades. The existing population that already chooses Elliot Hine would not be displaced as the school is currently well below capacity. Additionally, they would also have more opportunites and a stronger academic peer group which, according to existing research would help their education outcomes..

In theory, I completely agree. And if you were starting from scratch, it would be easier, but as it stands, you need guinea pigs---alot of them. You need people who are ok traveling into an area where the prospect of crime is probably much higher than where they live, just a few blocks away. You need white people who are ok with their child going to a school that completely lacks diversity. I can't imagine it would be easy being white in an all-black DC middle school, especially when you likely come from a privileged background. (A few bad apples, etc., obviously, but it was by no means uncommon for me to see kids from the former Hine harrassing (white) passers-by.) My point is simply that people of all races are more likely to feel comfortable when they see people who look like them. You also need people to invest in improving a school even though it won't truly be a neighborhood school to them. People talk about Brent as an example of how quickly a school can change when you have committed parents, but it is much easier to commit when the school is in your backyard.

This is obviously not an option, but I would think a better approach would be to feed Brent, Logan, SWS, etc. into a new school (Van Ness, maybe) and then over time add the underperforming kids from EH and/or Jefferson.

[Anonymous]

The neighborhood around E-H is fine. I've lives two blocks from the school for the past 8 years. I think my kid would be safer walking to E-H than sitting on a bus to an from Latin for an hour a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: In theory, I completely agree. And if you were starting from scratch, it would be easier, but as it stands, you need guinea pigs---alot of them. You need people who are ok traveling into an area where the prospect of crime is probably much higher than where they live, just a few blocks away. You need white people who are ok with their child going to a school that completely lacks diversity. I can't imagine it would be easy being white in an all-black DC middle school, especially when you likely come from a privileged background. (A few bad apples, etc., obviously, but it was by no means uncommon for me to see kids from the former Hine harrassing (white) passers-by.) My point is simply that people of all races are more likely to feel comfortable when they see people who look like them. You also need people to invest in improving a school even though it won't truly be a neighborhood school to them. People talk about Brent as an example of how quickly a school can change when you have committed parents, but it is much easier to commit when the school is in your backyard.

I can but assume that you haven't taken the time to tour Eliot-Hine to portray it as something that needs to be gutted and shut down, even just figuratively. Before you make assumptions based on a few encounters with obnoxious teenagers from a school that closed years ago, maybe it's time to check it out, talk to some of the teachers there, check out the library, meet with the principal, take a tour and all, well, heck speak with some of the kids and ask them about those comments.
On the race piece: From having been that "pioneer", as someone called it euphemistically a few posts up, I know that the fear is real and belittling it and chastising people for bringing it up is of no use. Our city and school system have got to find tools to turn this into an asset rather than a contention. Meanwhile, let me tell you that if you had the courage, you will learn how little a deal that actually is. You'll learn to look closely and find that you have so much more in common with some people who don't look like you than you have with some people who do.

To your comment about a new school: For anyone absolutely eager to start a new school, go right ahead, there are several middle school projects all around the city being or about to be started up. I for one would be much more concerned about being a guinea pig of a start-up than of something that I can inspect and see that it actually works. Is all shiny and rosy? Of course not, or we wouldn't be having these conversations. But you may have experienced how actually really quite little it takes if everyone stopped even just undermining. Just imagine the limitless possibilities if we actually worked together, I mean everybody.

[Anonymous]

The "p" in DCPS stands for public and not poor. So the discussion about the poor being the down fall for all DCPS ill-fates. Then the notion that the rich and educated will be our salvation, is quite insulting. I'll say this there are not enough Capitol Hill parents with children to make any Ward 6 school gold mine. If the theory of having those with the same mind-set of having money and education being the winning ticket. Then we wouldn't be in dire straights as the old-adage of money talks and bullshit walks.

I know for a fact that it doesn't take a majority rule of people with money and education to get things done. Example the rich are not enrolled in Deal but the persistent are the ones roaming the hallways. Hope you noticed that I didn't use the other "p" word to describe the majority. Which would've been inappropiate.

I have hope that there are genuine white families who live within E-H school boundaries who will make the school flourish naturally. I hope there are no hidden agendas and undermining schemes to divide and conquer.

If one really wanted to be outlandish, I could say this is all an orchestrated plan by the white man to label us poor. Just kidding. No I am not, I have Al Sharpton on speed dial.

[Anonymous]

Oh my gosh, pp. Once again, no one is saying that people with money and education are the "salvation" of DCPS. But the "p" does stand for "public" which is "people" and should be all of them in a balanced society and school system.

Concentrations of poverty in any particular school are proven again and again to have a negative effect on the academic outcomes of students in those schools.

No one is trying to "divide and conquer" or "take over" or "push out", but merely to participate. I agree it needs to be in a respectful, balanced, cooperative and sensitive way. I think there are plenty of parents in the E-H boundaries who are genuine and who can pull this off in that way.

It would help if people are open and accepting and don't jump to conclusions about motives and secret plans.

[Anonymous]

As part of a family of "genuine white people" who live close to E-H and are considering sending our DS to the school, I find the "divide and conquer" comments are pretty discouraging. What would my nasty motivation be? You know what? I am motivated by having my son live near his school and wanting him to play football (because he wants to be a pro football player one day) - pretty dark and devious, huh? I also think he can get a decent education there - if they can't give him algebra 1 in 8th, we won't send him there.

[Anonymous]

The neighborhood around E-H is fine. I've lives two blocks from the school for the past 8 years. I think my kid would be safer walking to E-H than sitting on a bus to an from Latin for an hour a day.

yup. it's not the neighborhood, it's the stigma. i have a PK kid in E-H feeder school. i hope we go to E-H. it will really just depend on how many of our cohorts/schoolmates are there. it is indeed discouraging to hear someone question our motives if we do go to OUR inbound public school. what on earth could the motive be, other than to make the school great? isn't that a win-win?? i agree with a previous poster. there has to be algebra 1 in middle school, or we'll suck it up and look for a charter (cringe).