HB Woodlawn HS questions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one poster on an anonymous board who thinks HB has some advantages and disadvantages. It does make sense that 1) the less rigorous AP classes and 2) your school offering fewer AP classes so therefore a top student can carry a lower AP course load overall to be seen as taking the schools most rigorous path could be a potential advantage for college admissions in a test optional environment.

People who are denying this, it seems weird to me.

Overall though, most parents want their kids in a strong academic environment with good options. So I see what’s being described in this thread as a disadvantage more than an advantage.

As an HB parent, I agree that HB has advantages and disadvantages. I can't say though that the less rigorous classes and fewer AP classes are some sort of benefit in college admissions. First, I'm not a college admissions professional (but I do have some experience in this area both as a parent of multiple kids who applied to elite schools and as an interviewer for my own elite college). It doesn't strike me that the type of kid who applies successfully to top colleges is looking fro some easier hack to get in. the types of kids who get into Ivies, etc. take every opportunity available to them and then go find/make opportunities.

I'm not denying that HB has advantages and disadvantages. I find it reallly weird that some person (or more) is trying to spin HB as having only advantages. That's just not the case.

Every college admissions professional and even most parents who have just had to become an amateur admissions person will tell you kids are competing against kids at their own high school in college admissions. Do the math on what that means at an overall less rigorous high school. A kid does not need to do as much to excel and stand out as at a more rigorous high school. That is the "benefit" people are identifying, if they are inclined to view this as a benefit. It's basically saying it's an advantage to be able to do less and get the same result. I agree most normal people are not looking for some easier hack to get in and that is not why their children are at HB.

I don't think your logic holds up though in terms of outcomes. There are still enough very rigorous classes at HB for kids to differentiate themselves. A very small number take multivariable calculus for example. And the top kids who get into differentiate themselves in other ways by doing things outside of school such as academic summer programs, research, governor's school, etc. They still have to differentiate themselves to get into the top schools. But at HB, you may have to do it yourself outside of school because the school just doesn't have the same opportunities.

You think kids at the regular high schools don't have to do anything outside of school to get into top schools? Wrong.

Where did I say that?

Sure, they may do things too.

You just seem to be assuming that tons of kids at HB get into top colleges, just because there are fewer AP classes available. That's just not how it works.

I'm wondering if any of you would even admit there is a difference for UVA.

UVA is going to let in some percentage of the class every year from all the APS high schools. That is the holy grail for many VA families. A great school at a good price. The kids who get into UVA from the comprehensive high schools - it's all APs in all core subjects (including an AP language) for all the years offered and not the easier AP options either. Nearly all (but not all) the W-L kids will have been full IB. And these kids will have gotten all As in HARD classes. And yes, they are doing things outside of school too. The above is not enough for these kids. It is known how hard an admit UVA is from these top publics in NoVa.

HB has a lot of UVA admits. I believe the kids who got into UVA from HB had to do less in high school academically then a kid at one of the comprehensive high schools to get into UVA.

Thank you so much for posting this. I understand now. HB got a spot you think your kid would have gotten so the school is easier. Finally, I understand the hate. If your kid us UVA Special, they should devote themselves to getting every little thing they can out of the school the are at.

I am guessing you haven’t read Selingo’s most popular book. Go do that homework and then you can rejoin the discussion and actually understand and contribute.

[Anonymous]

The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, most of the AP's my kid took at HB were AP only - there wasn't a subsection of "regular" in the same room. And most seemed rigorous (AP Chem, AP Spanish, AP Env. Science, AP US History, AP Calc to name a few) for my kid, who did ok-to-well on exams.

There was one exception where they were mixed in with non-AP in the same room, explained to us as because they didn't have enough kids to make a non-AP section of the course but still wanted the non-AP kids to have a chance to be exposed to the material. Those kids had a different level of rigor and expectations in their assignments, according to the teacher, but they learned the AP curriculum alongside the AP kids, not the other way around.

The social science AP classes at HB are absolutely not rigorously taught and the math/science AP classes are not that rigorous, either. Yes, we've been told that a bunch of kids struggle in these classes, but that's not because of the the class, it's because those kids shouldn't be taking those classes but unfortunately, the default option for HB kids is to be "self-placed" into AP classes because the alternative doesn't exist in most cases for normal kids. Thus, the mixed (AP) Lang classrooms will be 80-90% AP enrolled for the entire grade (excepting some FL and sped kids), which obviously doesn't make sense for any school. One of the classes that one of our kids was enrolled in had only a few non-AP kids total.

I've had a kid at a regular high school and HB. The AP classes at HB are not as rigorous in my experience watching my kids.

Interesting. Which classes did you get a chance to compare?

I'm not going to give you the blow by blow for every class my one kid took AP World at regular high school (not even offered at HB). Very hard class and all the testing was the AP format of MCQs, DBQs, SAQs, and LEQs. Nightly reading and quizes in every class to be sure they're doing the reading. It is a difficult class. Most of them fail the first test. My kid did. They figure it out as the year goes on (and some of them don't).

They move on to APUSH which is the same AP test format and they keep on rolling and they are much better at the whole thing. My HB kid, APUSH junior year was...not that. The AP classes at the regular high schools from what I have seen, they are teaching to the AP exam all year. The kids get to the end and yes they have to review content but there is not a lot of "studying" for the AP exam they've been doing the AP exam over and over all year.

Ok, I was sort of wondering if this was self selection into easier classes. It sounds like your HB kid didn't take the hardest classes. AP Chem, AP Physics, DE Multi are quite difficult according to my kid. And no I don't think the classes were watered down based on their AP scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

AP classes have a prescribed curriculum. They can't be "less rigorous."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one poster on an anonymous board who thinks HB has some advantages and disadvantages. It does make sense that 1) the less rigorous AP classes and 2) your school offering fewer AP classes so therefore a top student can carry a lower AP course load overall to be seen as taking the schools most rigorous path could be a potential advantage for college admissions in a test optional environment.

People who are denying this, it seems weird to me.

Overall though, most parents want their kids in a strong academic environment with good options. So I see what’s being described in this thread as a disadvantage more than an advantage.

As an HB parent, I agree that HB has advantages and disadvantages. I can't say though that the less rigorous classes and fewer AP classes are some sort of benefit in college admissions. First, I'm not a college admissions professional (but I do have some experience in this area both as a parent of multiple kids who applied to elite schools and as an interviewer for my own elite college). It doesn't strike me that the type of kid who applies successfully to top colleges is looking fro some easier hack to get in. the types of kids who get into Ivies, etc. take every opportunity available to them and then go find/make opportunities.

I'm not denying that HB has advantages and disadvantages. I find it reallly weird that some person (or more) is trying to spin HB as having only advantages. That's just not the case.

Every college admissions professional and even most parents who have just had to become an amateur admissions person will tell you kids are competing against kids at their own high school in college admissions. Do the math on what that means at an overall less rigorous high school. A kid does not need to do as much to excel and stand out as at a more rigorous high school. That is the "benefit" people are identifying, if they are inclined to view this as a benefit. It's basically saying it's an advantage to be able to do less and get the same result. I agree most normal people are not looking for some easier hack to get in and that is not why their children are at HB.

I don't think your logic holds up though in terms of outcomes. There are still enough very rigorous classes at HB for kids to differentiate themselves. A very small number take multivariable calculus for example. And the top kids who get into differentiate themselves in other ways by doing things outside of school such as academic summer programs, research, governor's school, etc. They still have to differentiate themselves to get into the top schools. But at HB, you may have to do it yourself outside of school because the school just doesn't have the same opportunities.

You think kids at the regular high schools don't have to do anything outside of school to get into top schools? Wrong.

Where did I say that?

Sure, they may do things too.

You just seem to be assuming that tons of kids at HB get into top colleges, just because there are fewer AP classes available. That's just not how it works.

I'm wondering if any of you would even admit there is a difference for UVA.

UVA is going to let in some percentage of the class every year from all the APS high schools. That is the holy grail for many VA families. A great school at a good price. The kids who get into UVA from the comprehensive high schools - it's all APs in all core subjects (including an AP language) for all the years offered and not the easier AP options either. Nearly all (but not all) the W-L kids will have been full IB. And these kids will have gotten all As in HARD classes. And yes, they are doing things outside of school too. The above is not enough for these kids. It is known how hard an admit UVA is from these top publics in NoVa.

HB has a lot of UVA admits. I believe the kids who got into UVA from HB had to do less in high school academically then a kid at one of the comprehensive high schools to get into UVA.

Thank you so much for posting this. I understand now. HB got a spot you think your kid would have gotten so the school is easier. Finally, I understand the hate. If your kid us UVA Special, they should devote themselves to getting every little thing they can out of the school the are at.

Yep, it's double hate, first bitter their kid didn't get into HB, then double bitter that this cheated them out of their god given right to UVA! And their kid was BETTER than those lazy HB kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one poster on an anonymous board who thinks HB has some advantages and disadvantages. It does make sense that 1) the less rigorous AP classes and 2) your school offering fewer AP classes so therefore a top student can carry a lower AP course load overall to be seen as taking the schools most rigorous path could be a potential advantage for college admissions in a test optional environment.

People who are denying this, it seems weird to me.

Overall though, most parents want their kids in a strong academic environment with good options. So I see what’s being described in this thread as a disadvantage more than an advantage.

As an HB parent, I agree that HB has advantages and disadvantages. I can't say though that the less rigorous classes and fewer AP classes are some sort of benefit in college admissions. First, I'm not a college admissions professional (but I do have some experience in this area both as a parent of multiple kids who applied to elite schools and as an interviewer for my own elite college). It doesn't strike me that the type of kid who applies successfully to top colleges is looking fro some easier hack to get in. the types of kids who get into Ivies, etc. take every opportunity available to them and then go find/make opportunities.

I'm not denying that HB has advantages and disadvantages. I find it reallly weird that some person (or more) is trying to spin HB as having only advantages. That's just not the case.

Every college admissions professional and even most parents who have just had to become an amateur admissions person will tell you kids are competing against kids at their own high school in college admissions. Do the math on what that means at an overall less rigorous high school. A kid does not need to do as much to excel and stand out as at a more rigorous high school. That is the "benefit" people are identifying, if they are inclined to view this as a benefit. It's basically saying it's an advantage to be able to do less and get the same result. I agree most normal people are not looking for some easier hack to get in and that is not why their children are at HB.

I don't think your logic holds up though in terms of outcomes. There are still enough very rigorous classes at HB for kids to differentiate themselves. A very small number take multivariable calculus for example. And the top kids who get into differentiate themselves in other ways by doing things outside of school such as academic summer programs, research, governor's school, etc. They still have to differentiate themselves to get into the top schools. But at HB, you may have to do it yourself outside of school because the school just doesn't have the same opportunities.

You think kids at the regular high schools don't have to do anything outside of school to get into top schools? Wrong.

Where did I say that?

Sure, they may do things too.

You just seem to be assuming that tons of kids at HB get into top colleges, just because there are fewer AP classes available. That's just not how it works.

I'm wondering if any of you would even admit there is a difference for UVA.

UVA is going to let in some percentage of the class every year from all the APS high schools. That is the holy grail for many VA families. A great school at a good price. The kids who get into UVA from the comprehensive high schools - it's all APs in all core subjects (including an AP language) for all the years offered and not the easier AP options either. Nearly all (but not all) the W-L kids will have been full IB. And these kids will have gotten all As in HARD classes. And yes, they are doing things outside of school too. The above is not enough for these kids. It is known how hard an admit UVA is from these top publics in NoVa.

HB has a lot of UVA admits. I believe the kids who got into UVA from HB had to do less in high school academically then a kid at one of the comprehensive high schools to get into UVA.

Thank you so much for posting this. I understand now. HB got a spot you think your kid would have gotten so the school is easier. Finally, I understand the hate. If your kid us UVA Special, they should devote themselves to getting every little thing they can out of the school the are at.

I am guessing you haven’t read Selingo’s most popular book. Go do that homework and then you can rejoin the discussion and actually understand and contribute.

Hi there! Not the PP but I agree with them and yes I have read both of Selingo's books. But I'm sure you are THE EXPERT on college admissions because you read one book. We should all listen to you with all of your expertise. From one book!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

AP classes have a prescribed curriculum. They can't be "less rigorous."

In PP's head they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

so you admit here that the self selecting population makes a difference, yet you cannot see how that would translate to applying to and getting into top schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

AP classes have a prescribed curriculum. They can't be "less rigorous."

Are you serious? Dumbest thing posted here so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

AP classes have a prescribed curriculum. They can't be "less rigorous."

Are you serious? Dumbest thing posted here so far.

DP but it sounds like you don't know too much about AP courses. Since you apparently don't know how to research either, here you go!
https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/about-ap/ap-a-glance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

AP classes have a prescribed curriculum. They can't be "less rigorous."

Are you serious? Dumbest thing posted here so far.

DP but it sounds like you don't know too much about AP courses. Since you apparently don't know how to research either, here you go!
https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/about-ap/ap-a-glance

The covered material and terminal AP exam are prescribed.

The rigor of homework assigned, grading of non-terminal tests, and the APS reported grade is up to teacher’s discretion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

AP classes have a prescribed curriculum. They can't be "less rigorous."

Are you serious? Dumbest thing posted here so far.

DP but it sounds like you don't know too much about AP courses. Since you apparently don't know how to research either, here you go!
https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/about-ap/ap-a-glance

The covered material and terminal AP exam are prescribed.

The rigor of homework assigned, grading of non-terminal tests, and the APS reported grade is up to teacher’s discretion.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is publicly available. HB students on average take more AP classes than the neighborhood school students and generally don’t perform as well on the exams. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the courses are less rigorous. There are fewer barriers to entry at HB when it comes to AP classes. That’s all.

People have extensively described, in great detail, the ways the classes are less rigorous. On this thread.

Not surprised HB students take more APs on average the general high schools are serving a much different population overall.

AP classes have a prescribed curriculum. They can't be "less rigorous."

Are you serious? Dumbest thing posted here so far.

DP but it sounds like you don't know too much about AP courses. Since you apparently don't know how to research either, here you go!
https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/about-ap/ap-a-glance

The covered material and terminal AP exam are prescribed.

The rigor of homework assigned, grading of non-terminal tests, and the APS reported grade is up to teacher’s discretion.

Even IF this is true, very weird to pretend less well taught classes at HB are some kind of benefit. But you are convinced an HB kid is getting stuff your kid isn’t. You’re clearly obsessed. You should be focusing on your kid. Not your vendetta against HB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one poster on an anonymous board who thinks HB has some advantages and disadvantages. It does make sense that 1) the less rigorous AP classes and 2) your school offering fewer AP classes so therefore a top student can carry a lower AP course load overall to be seen as taking the schools most rigorous path could be a potential advantage for college admissions in a test optional environment.

People who are denying this, it seems weird to me.

Overall though, most parents want their kids in a strong academic environment with good options. So I see what’s being described in this thread as a disadvantage more than an advantage.

As an HB parent, I agree that HB has advantages and disadvantages. I can't say though that the less rigorous classes and fewer AP classes are some sort of benefit in college admissions. First, I'm not a college admissions professional (but I do have some experience in this area both as a parent of multiple kids who applied to elite schools and as an interviewer for my own elite college). It doesn't strike me that the type of kid who applies successfully to top colleges is looking fro some easier hack to get in. the types of kids who get into Ivies, etc. take every opportunity available to them and then go find/make opportunities.

I'm not denying that HB has advantages and disadvantages. I find it reallly weird that some person (or more) is trying to spin HB as having only advantages. That's just not the case.

Every college admissions professional and even most parents who have just had to become an amateur admissions person will tell you kids are competing against kids at their own high school in college admissions. Do the math on what that means at an overall less rigorous high school. A kid does not need to do as much to excel and stand out as at a more rigorous high school. That is the "benefit" people are identifying, if they are inclined to view this as a benefit. It's basically saying it's an advantage to be able to do less and get the same result. I agree most normal people are not looking for some easier hack to get in and that is not why their children are at HB.

I don't think your logic holds up though in terms of outcomes. There are still enough very rigorous classes at HB for kids to differentiate themselves. A very small number take multivariable calculus for example. And the top kids who get into differentiate themselves in other ways by doing things outside of school such as academic summer programs, research, governor's school, etc. They still have to differentiate themselves to get into the top schools. But at HB, you may have to do it yourself outside of school because the school just doesn't have the same opportunities.

You think kids at the regular high schools don't have to do anything outside of school to get into top schools? Wrong.

Where did I say that?

Sure, they may do things too.

You just seem to be assuming that tons of kids at HB get into top colleges, just because there are fewer AP classes available. That's just not how it works.

I'm wondering if any of you would even admit there is a difference for UVA.

UVA is going to let in some percentage of the class every year from all the APS high schools. That is the holy grail for many VA families. A great school at a good price. The kids who get into UVA from the comprehensive high schools - it's all APs in all core subjects (including an AP language) for all the years offered and not the easier AP options either. Nearly all (but not all) the W-L kids will have been full IB. And these kids will have gotten all As in HARD classes. And yes, they are doing things outside of school too. The above is not enough for these kids. It is known how hard an admit UVA is from these top publics in NoVa.

HB has a lot of UVA admits. I believe the kids who got into UVA from HB had to do less in high school academically then a kid at one of the comprehensive high schools to get into UVA.

Thank you so much for posting this. I understand now. HB got a spot you think your kid would have gotten so the school is easier. Finally, I understand the hate. If your kid us UVA Special, they should devote themselves to getting every little thing they can out of the school the are at.

Yep, it's double hate, first bitter their kid didn't get into HB, then double bitter that this cheated them out of their god given right to UVA! And their kid was BETTER than those lazy HB kids!

Assuming in every discussion that people who disagree with you are bitter and/or jealous shows you have no argument. Or are just delusional?

I have a kid at a regular high school who did not want to go to HB. Not a good fit. And as I already said when I posted previously, kid is not interested in UVA. I’m just saying what I think about this as an observer and person who lives here and has kids in APS. To me I can see how the kids who get into UVA from HB have had to do less academically. No one has come on here so far with an actual counter to this that isn’t just insults.