MacArthur feeder panic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former DCPS employee and I want to chime in on the first thing a poster raised a liability that actually indicates competence of this new school: suspension and/or expulsion.

First of all, it is nearly impossible to expel a kid in DCPS. Period. This has nothing to do with the actual school.

Second, I'm going to argue that if a school has a high suspension rate, that means they have a strong admin team that "sweats the small stuff" and is good at dotting i's and crossing t's.

Non-DCPS people have NO idea how many suspensions (for really serious things) Central denies because something was wrong in the paperwork or they feel the school didn't demonstrate reasonable prior steps. Walk in any DCPS school (save for probably Walls and Banneker) and you're going to have kids trying to vape in the bathroom, trying to sneak weed in, the same few kids (less than 2% of the overall student body) trying over and over again to fight, or some other type of poor behavior. If a school has a high suspension rate, it's not necessarily indicative of "oh man, the baddest of the bad kids go here!", but rather a "this is an admin team that knows what they're doing and doesn't play." One school I worked at had a very low suspension rate because the assistant principals were too incompetent to get a suspension package together that Central would actually approve.

Thought we needed some facts to accompany our pearl clutching.

+100000. I was very nervous about the high discipline rate of my kid’s T1 MS but it was exactly as you say - a sign of an administration working hard to keep the school in order. And there is nuance - for example I believe there is a lot more discretion in doing in-school suspensions, shorter out-of-school suspensions, and detention. I don’t think these need to go through Central. Also the MS was willing to just suspend for a day with no paperwork and hope for the best (how do I know this? Because not all “bad” kids are the poor black kids, as I can personally attest!)

So yeah I don’t see the high disciple rates at McArthur as necessarily bad. That said it would give me a little pause - I would want to know more about how much lower-level classroom disruption is present and tolerated. We are running into that now in 8th grade and I have to say I’m not really here for it as my kid moves into HS and is more serious about learning. I just don’t want him to have a full year in a main subject lost because the class happens to have a concentration of problem kids.

Finally wrt expulsions, my understanding is that schools can send kids back to their IB school if they get in a lot of trouble. So I would also hope that McArthur is taking full advantage of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former DCPS employee and I want to chime in on the first thing a poster raised a liability that actually indicates competence of this new school: suspension and/or expulsion.

First of all, it is nearly impossible to expel a kid in DCPS. Period. This has nothing to do with the actual school.

Second, I'm going to argue that if a school has a high suspension rate, that means they have a strong admin team that "sweats the small stuff" and is good at dotting i's and crossing t's.

Non-DCPS people have NO idea how many suspensions (for really serious things) Central denies because something was wrong in the paperwork or they feel the school didn't demonstrate reasonable prior steps. Walk in any DCPS school (save for probably Walls and Banneker) and you're going to have kids trying to vape in the bathroom, trying to sneak weed in, the same few kids (less than 2% of the overall student body) trying over and over again to fight, or some other type of poor behavior. If a school has a high suspension rate, it's not necessarily indicative of "oh man, the baddest of the bad kids go here!", but rather a "this is an admin team that knows what they're doing and doesn't play." One school I worked at had a very low suspension rate because the assistant principals were too incompetent to get a suspension package together that Central would actually approve.

Thought we needed some facts to accompany our pearl clutching.

+100. I was just thinking about this- I also know how hard it is to expel kids from DCPS (they basically have to bring a gun to campus to be expelled)… and if there is a high suspension rate it means admin is on top of things- and knowing about the admin at MacArthur- they are some of the strongest and most competent in the city. The pearl clutching is insane.

They don’t have to expel the kids from McArthur. They can just send them back to their IB school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former DCPS employee and I want to chime in on the first thing a poster raised a liability that actually indicates competence of this new school: suspension and/or expulsion.

First of all, it is nearly impossible to expel a kid in DCPS. Period. This has nothing to do with the actual school.

Second, I'm going to argue that if a school has a high suspension rate, that means they have a strong admin team that "sweats the small stuff" and is good at dotting i's and crossing t's.

Non-DCPS people have NO idea how many suspensions (for really serious things) Central denies because something was wrong in the paperwork or they feel the school didn't demonstrate reasonable prior steps. Walk in any DCPS school (save for probably Walls and Banneker) and you're going to have kids trying to vape in the bathroom, trying to sneak weed in, the same few kids (less than 2% of the overall student body) trying over and over again to fight, or some other type of poor behavior. If a school has a high suspension rate, it's not necessarily indicative of "oh man, the baddest of the bad kids go here!", but rather a "this is an admin team that knows what they're doing and doesn't play." One school I worked at had a very low suspension rate because the assistant principals were too incompetent to get a suspension package together that Central would actually approve.

Thought we needed some facts to accompany our pearl clutching.

This is really valuable context. Every non-application school in the city is going to have some percent of kids with problematic behaviors. I mean, I attended a well regarded public high school in a midsize town that was like 80% white and where fully half of parents were likely UMC or wealthier. And we absolutely had a steady 15-20% of students who were doing things like smoking, sneaking drugs in, ditching class, or getting in fights. The idea that if a public school is "good" it will simply have a 100% rule-compliant student population makes no sense. The only way any school gets to a broadly compliant student population is through selective admissions. JR also has behavioral issues.

Remember the kids putting liquor in a sprite bottle? Ah, the good old days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

No idea if this is still the case anyway, but at the state flagship where I went to college (20 years ago), they made you take a math placement exam and they'd recommend what class you should enroll in. Most people who had taken AP Calc were still recommended to start with Calc 1. It was just a recommendation, and if you'd taken calc in HS you could try just skipping Calc 1. But I knew people who did that and really struggled, including my roommate who loved math and had declared a math major and then got frustrated by that experience and wound up in a non-math major.

I think it's very hard for a HS student to truly do college-level math while still being a HS student. They are taking too many classes and have too many other commitments to really go deep. It's the same way most HS students can't write a college-level thesis paper, design and execute lab experiments, etc. These things take sustained focus -- longer classes, more study and work outside of class, fewer distractions. It's literally what college is for. HS is meant to largely complete your general studies (college will have some general studies requirements but they will be mostly entry level and most people will take no more than one of these a semester after freshman year). College is for dedicated study in the field where you will work.

It's not that smart HS kids are not capable of college level work -- many are, especially by junior or senior year. It's that their lives, and their education, are not structured in a way to truly facilitate it. I think this is one reason a lot of teens are so stressed these days -- they are being asked to do things that don't really make sense within the confines of their lifestyle, which they didn't even choose for themselves. The obsession with math acceleration is part of that.

+1. At my kids school they make kids take AP Precalc, AP Calc AB, and then AP Calc BC. 3 years of HS Calc to replace one year of college Calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to tell what's going on. The academic performance and disciplinary numbers from osse are on par with Anacostia and Ballou.

It’s not hard to tell what’s going on. Most of the white kids in bounds go to private or another HS like Walls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former DCPS employee and I want to chime in on the first thing a poster raised a liability that actually indicates competence of this new school: suspension and/or expulsion.

First of all, it is nearly impossible to expel a kid in DCPS. Period. This has nothing to do with the actual school.

Second, I'm going to argue that if a school has a high suspension rate, that means they have a strong admin team that "sweats the small stuff" and is good at dotting i's and crossing t's.

Non-DCPS people have NO idea how many suspensions (for really serious things) Central denies because something was wrong in the paperwork or they feel the school didn't demonstrate reasonable prior steps. Walk in any DCPS school (save for probably Walls and Banneker) and you're going to have kids trying to vape in the bathroom, trying to sneak weed in, the same few kids (less than 2% of the overall student body) trying over and over again to fight, or some other type of poor behavior. If a school has a high suspension rate, it's not necessarily indicative of "oh man, the baddest of the bad kids go here!", but rather a "this is an admin team that knows what they're doing and doesn't play." One school I worked at had a very low suspension rate because the assistant principals were too incompetent to get a suspension package together that Central would actually approve.

Thought we needed some facts to accompany our pearl clutching.

+100000. I was very nervous about the high discipline rate of my kid’s T1 MS but it was exactly as you say - a sign of an administration working hard to keep the school in order. And there is nuance - for example I believe there is a lot more discretion in doing in-school suspensions, shorter out-of-school suspensions, and detention. I don’t think these need to go through Central. Also the MS was willing to just suspend for a day with no paperwork and hope for the best (how do I know this? Because not all “bad” kids are the poor black kids, as I can personally attest!)

So yeah I don’t see the high disciple rates at McArthur as necessarily bad. That said it would give me a little pause - I would want to know more about how much lower-level classroom disruption is present and tolerated. We are running into that now in 8th grade and I have to say I’m not really here for it as my kid moves into HS and is more serious about learning. I just don’t want him to have a full year in a main subject lost because the class happens to have a concentration of problem kids.

Finally wrt expulsions, my understanding is that schools can send kids back to their IB school if they get in a lot of trouble. So I would also hope that McArthur is taking full advantage of that.

The rates are the same as anacostia and ballou so that is that……..

[Anonymous]

Hardy is the only feeder. Hardy is slightly over 600 students. Deal has over 1400. It is just different/harder to get sizable buy in from a 200 student middle school feeder cohort than from a 500 student middle school feeder cohort. Then you have the smart kids elsewhere in the city are not choosing MacArthur is large numbers because its in a pretty remote corner of the city and they have other closer options public and private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to tell what's going on. The academic performance and disciplinary numbers from osse are on par with Anacostia and Ballou.

It’s not hard to tell what’s going on. Most of the white kids in bounds go to private or another HS like Walls.

At Hardy, a lot of kids will apply to selective high schools but their back up is MacArthur. Most kids who apply to Walls won’t get in because it’s so competitive. A lot of in boundary kids don’t want to go to Banneker because the commute is way worse. A lot of Hardy families don’t want private or can’t afford it. They are expecting a lot of Hardy kids to attend MacArthur in the fall and they only have 200 seats for 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

I’m a parent of a Hardy 8th grader, and my impression too is that while lots of kids are applying lots of places right now, in the end most of them will go to MacArthur. Hardy is great, and I fully expect MacArthur will be too, especially as it gets more established.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to tell what's going on. The academic performance and disciplinary numbers from osse are on par with Anacostia and Ballou.

It’s not hard to tell what’s going on. Most of the white kids in bounds go to private or another HS like Walls.

At Hardy, a lot of kids will apply to selective high schools but their back up is MacArthur. Most kids who apply to Walls won’t get in because it’s so competitive. A lot of in boundary kids don’t want to go to Banneker because the commute is way worse. A lot of Hardy families don’t want private or can’t afford it. They are expecting a lot of Hardy kids to attend MacArthur in the fall and they only have 200 seats for 9th grade.

They won’t fill it if it is anything like this fall. Only 1/2 the class went to MA and i’m guessing it’s not the higher performing kids either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent of a Hardy 8th grader, and my impression too is that while lots of kids are applying lots of places right now, in the end most of them will go to MacArthur. Hardy is great, and I fully expect MacArthur will be too, especially as it gets more established.

No, lots families moving to burbs is what I’m hearing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent of a Hardy 8th grader, and my impression too is that while lots of kids are applying lots of places right now, in the end most of them will go to MacArthur. Hardy is great, and I fully expect MacArthur will be too, especially as it gets more established.

No, lots families moving to burbs is what I’m hearing

Ugh the burbs mean schools with 2000+ kids. I’m not sure we can make that leap. I think I might prefer MacArthur with all its flaws (which I know because I know DCPS!) to a massive HS. Not an easy choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent of a Hardy 8th grader, and my impression too is that while lots of kids are applying lots of places right now, in the end most of them will go to MacArthur. Hardy is great, and I fully expect MacArthur will be too, especially as it gets more established.

No, lots families moving to burbs is what I’m hearing

Ugh the burbs mean schools with 2000+ kids. I’m not sure we can make that leap. I think I might prefer MacArthur with all its flaws (which I know because I know DCPS!) to a massive HS. Not an easy choice.

Not all schools have 2000 kids and they are much better. Plus you get the option of the benefit of state schools for college, saving you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent of a Hardy 8th grader, and my impression too is that while lots of kids are applying lots of places right now, in the end most of them will go to MacArthur. Hardy is great, and I fully expect MacArthur will be too, especially as it gets more established.

No, lots families moving to burbs is what I’m hearing

Ugh the burbs mean schools with 2000+ kids. I’m not sure we can make that leap. I think I might prefer MacArthur with all its flaws (which I know because I know DCPS!) to a massive HS. Not an easy choice.

Not all schools have 2000 kids and they are much better. Plus you get the option of the benefit of state schools for college, saving you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Yes, ALL the suburban high schools have 2000 (or 3000) kids except for Falls Church City.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent of a Hardy 8th grader, and my impression too is that while lots of kids are applying lots of places right now, in the end most of them will go to MacArthur. Hardy is great, and I fully expect MacArthur will be too, especially as it gets more established.

No, lots families moving to burbs is what I’m hearing

Ugh the burbs mean schools with 2000+ kids. I’m not sure we can make that leap. I think I might prefer MacArthur with all its flaws (which I know because I know DCPS!) to a massive HS. Not an easy choice.

Not all schools have 2000 kids and they are much better. Plus you get the option of the benefit of state schools for college, saving you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Saving hundreds of thousands of dollars?! Hahahahaha

Current Hardy 8th grade parent here. No plans for burbs and haven’t heard others doing so either… and if they do it’s certainly not to save hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Personally, we also would prefer MacArthur to moving out of the city