Two concepts should be banned in discussing boundary studies

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Aren't there places where the nearest high school is over four miles away?

That is an exception. I meant a general rule. I just do not like busing a long distance as a tool for balancing FARMS.

Np I disagree. I don’t think they should let any school get over 15-20% farms.

In my neighborhood there are two elementary schools 1 mile apart. One has only 1m+ sfhs and a few townhouses. The other has 1m homes and then a new apartment complex was built. It’s now 60% farms. I think there would be a massive benefit in balancing the schools. Only the sfhs are within walking distance to both schools. The apartments are already bused from a mile away.

What a fantastic example of how out of touch some people on the wealthier side of the county are. “I don’t think they should let any school get over 15-20% FARMS.” And also, we should let them eat cake!

Here in reality, 44% of the students in the county are eligible for FARMS.

If the county is 44% FARMS, they should mandate that every school have 44% FARMs. Instead of having one school be 80% FARM and one be 10%.

I'd like to see some conceptual school boundaries based on this goal, because my guess is that they would be pretty ridiculous and require way longer bus rides than even its proponents realize. Because most of the schools with 10% FARMS are not adjacent to schools with 80% FARMS. There are other schools in the middle, many of which hover around the mean MCPS rates. There's a reason that no one is seriously proposing this outside of an anonymous message board.

the FARMS rates for Einstein and Wheaton are 2-3 times that of Walter Johnson which is adjacent to those clusters

Right but even within those clusters there is vaiability- there are nice SFH home neighbohoods and there are run down apartment blocks. You'd have to do more than nibble at the edges of the boundaries because it isn't going to get you what you want- you'd probably have go create "holes" within the Einstein and Wheaton clusters to get enough FARMS kids in a concentrated area and ship those kids to WJ.

Not really. There is.an option that sends Veirs Mill ES and Wheaton woods ES to WJ and Woodward. What is missing is an option that sends Kensington Parkwood ES (excluding the island that is next to Woodward) to Einstein HS. Now that enrollment projections are down, they could easily make room at Einstein for KP. They are explicitly choosing to not even discuss this.

Oh ok, so you're only looking to balance HSs, not "every school." That's a bit more feasible. If KP were rezoned to Einstein does that get both high schools close to 44% each?

Why did you put "every school" in quotes?

Also it is not my job to calculate new FARMS rates. Our tax dollars are paying for a consultant whose job it is to do just that, but they were instructed not to offer this particular change in their options even though it would satisfy three of the four factors, which is rare.

Because of the previous post: "If the county is 44% FARMS, they should mandate that every school have 44% FARMs. Instead of having one school be 80% FARM and one be 10%." Does moving KP to Einstein achieve your goal?

I didn't write that, that was someone else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't there places where the nearest high school is over four miles away?

That is an exception. I meant a general rule. I just do not like busing a long distance as a tool for balancing FARMS.

Np I disagree. I don’t think they should let any school get over 15-20% farms.

In my neighborhood there are two elementary schools 1 mile apart. One has only 1m+ sfhs and a few townhouses. The other has 1m homes and then a new apartment complex was built. It’s now 60% farms. I think there would be a massive benefit in balancing the schools. Only the sfhs are within walking distance to both schools. The apartments are already bused from a mile away.

What a fantastic example of how out of touch some people on the wealthier side of the county are. “I don’t think they should let any school get over 15-20% FARMS.” And also, we should let them eat cake!

Here in reality, 44% of the students in the county are eligible for FARMS.

If the county is 44% FARMS, they should mandate that every school have 44% FARMs. Instead of having one school be 80% FARM and one be 10%.

I'd like to see some conceptual school boundaries based on this goal, because my guess is that they would be pretty ridiculous and require way longer bus rides than even its proponents realize. Because most of the schools with 10% FARMS are not adjacent to schools with 80% FARMS. There are other schools in the middle, many of which hover around the mean MCPS rates. There's a reason that no one is seriously proposing this outside of an anonymous message board.

the FARMS rates for Einstein and Wheaton are 2-3 times that of Walter Johnson which is adjacent to those clusters

Right but even within those clusters there is vaiability- there are nice SFH home neighbohoods and there are run down apartment blocks. You'd have to do more than nibble at the edges of the boundaries because it isn't going to get you what you want- you'd probably have go create "holes" within the Einstein and Wheaton clusters to get enough FARMS kids in a concentrated area and ship those kids to WJ.

Not really. There is.an option that sends Veirs Mill ES and Wheaton woods ES to WJ and Woodward. What is missing is an option that sends Kensington Parkwood ES (excluding the island that is next to Woodward) to Einstein HS. Now that enrollment projections are down, they could easily make room at Einstein for KP. They are explicitly choosing to not even discuss this.

Oh ok, so you're only looking to balance HSs, not "every school." That's a bit more feasible. If KP were rezoned to Einstein does that get both high schools close to 44% each?

Why did you put "every school" in quotes?

Also it is not my job to calculate new FARMS rates. Our tax dollars are paying for a consultant whose job it is to do just that, but they were instructed not to offer this particular change in their options even though it would satisfy three of the four factors, which is rare.

Because of the previous post: "If the county is 44% FARMS, they should mandate that every school have 44% FARMs. Instead of having one school be 80% FARM and one be 10%." Does moving KP to Einstein achieve your goal?

I didn't write that, that was someone else

Adding that this was me

I think people purposely bring up the idea of "distributing poverty equally" to distract from the fact that there are adjacent clusters with vastly different farms rates and that MCPS could reduce segregation if it tried. However, it is uninterested in doing so.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Balancing the farms rate should have nothing to do with new boundaries. If you chose to buy in Einstein, you prioritized close in proximity over the school attendance zone.

If you cared about the school attendance zone, you could have bought a house in Poolesville for a similar price as Einstein. But instead you prioritized close in proximity to DC.

I - like many of my neighbors - chose to use my JD/PhD/MD for public service which means I have to go into work in person and don’t get paid the big bucks to do it. Yet my neighbors who chose to maximize $ think that somehow makes them and their kids more deserving than mine. This is the heart of my disgust with many of my fellow MoCo residents (fellow citizens too but that’s not the subject of this thread).

You prioritized commute time over the quality of your kids school. End of story. There are many phds that work in public service, commute to DC, and live in Howard County.

My parents spent hours on the bus going to work (before they could afford a car, but the drive was still long) just so their kids could live in an area with better schools. We were poor, but my parents saved and got housing where the better schools/neighborhood was. As a parent, my first priority is my own children and not yours (though I might have empathy for them).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There is nothing is unfair about some schools having high farms rate and others having low farms rate. Everyone makes decisions based on their priorities.

The bigger issue is the disparities in offerings between the schools.

I think the biggest issue is the lack of resources to support students living in poverty. At the high school level there is no significant funding to address the learning challenges associated with poverty. Extra money does help. https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/how-money-matters-factsheet

These high poverty high schools really are stretched thin for supporting low income kids. It would be easier if the high needs kids weren't so concentrated in certain schools. For example, we know experienced teachers are more effective and that wealthy schools attract more experienced teachers. It is better for low income kids to be in schools with more experienced teachers. The most cost effective way to do that is to reduce racial and economic segregation in schools.

Of course as a result of housing discrimination and exclusionary zoning in Montgomery County, it is hard not to concentrate poverty in certain schools, but it's crazy to me that the BOE isn't even considering some obvious ways to reduce segregation and is in fact only looking at boundary options that increase segregation.

What are the obvious things that you mention? Send the kids from Potomac to Wheaton?

Of course not. I mean do what they claimed they would do - look at adjacent clusters. Like as mentioned above in this thread, WJ and Einstein and Wheaton where there are massive differences in FARMS rates. But it's not even being considered.

I am in WJ cluster and I am not that happy with the schools on this clyster and you are saying I need to send my kid to Einstein to balance the FARMS rate? I am responsible only for my kids at this point and I will do everything for my kids only.

We should start the national campaign that will promote education and stress that education starts from home. How is that not a priority in the 21st century I cannot understand.

People like you are why we choose Einstein over WJ. We could afford both.

People like you are why I'm happy to live where I do, though I guess there are plenty of self-righteous aholes where I live too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Balancing the farms rate should have nothing to do with new boundaries. If you chose to buy in Einstein, you prioritized close in proximity over the school attendance zone.

If you cared about the school attendance zone, you could have bought a house in Poolesville for a similar price as Einstein. But instead you prioritized close in proximity to DC.

I - like many of my neighbors - chose to use my JD/PhD/MD for public service which means I have to go into work in person and don’t get paid the big bucks to do it. Yet my neighbors who chose to maximize $ think that somehow makes them and their kids more deserving than mine. This is the heart of my disgust with many of my fellow MoCo residents (fellow citizens too but that’s not the subject of this thread).

You prioritized commute time over the quality of your kids school. End of story. There are many phds that work in public service, commute to DC, and live in Howard County.

My parents spent hours on the bus going to work (before they could afford a car, but the drive was still long) just so their kids could live in an area with better schools. We were poor, but my parents saved and got housing where the better schools/neighborhood was. As a parent, my first priority is my own children and not yours (though I might have empathy for them).

You're bragging about being such a great parent because you made sacrifices in order to send your kids to a school where 3 out of 10 kids, including 1 out of 5 White kids, graduate not proficient in math and where 1 out of 4 kids graduate not proficient in ELA?