NBC News Poll: dramatic shift, Americans no longer see 4-year college degrees as worth the cost

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hmmmm. A $120,000 Gender Studies degree or IBEW Local 26?

Easy choice.

Except, the kid doing IBEW Local 26 is deciding between that and likely a business or engineering or other practical degree...and anyone getting a Gender Studies degree is not anyone who is likely cut out for IBEW Local 26.

I’d hope that potential business and engineering majors would grasp both the threat of AI, and the delta between college debt over 4 years vs. 4 years of decent income.

If you had a 2022 high school graduate would you rather they went to college for engineering, or joined the electrical union? Next year is stacking up to be the worst year for college graduates since COVID. Couple that with the AI headwind and the electrician will be several steps ahead.

While I know what you are kind of saying...the reality is that my kid already has an offer in CS for $200k plus bonus and options (and ability to work for the company at the same hourly rate during the school year) at an AI company, while his HS friend is doing an electrician apprenticeship in DC for $52k year. His friend is a great "hands on" kind of kid who had terrible grades in school and would likely flunk out of college (but was smart enough to realize that college is not for him).

It's a great outcome for his buddy...and perhaps his buddy will have more stable long-term employment...but my kid has zero debt and is fairly optimistic about his own prospects...so maybe I can report back in 10 years how both have fared.

What a coincidence. A parent with a STEM grad the very same year as the example who already has a unicorn job offer AND a low paid electrician friend that shares his salary. Thanks for letting us all know.

It's not low-paid...it's what apprentices make to start and he will see raises once he completes his apprenticeship and becomes a fully-certified union electrician (this is his 2nd year BTW). Obviously, neither he or parents will incur college costs.

Also, they are HS friends...so of course it's the same year.

The apprenticeship wage is a percentage of a Journeyman Wireman’s hourly wage. For Local 26 that’s currently $59.50/hr. That equates to $123,760. Year one of the apprenticeship the pay rate is 45% of the Journeyman wage, which is $55,692. Year two it bumps up to 55%, or $68,068. It goes to $80,444 in year three, $92,820 in year four and $105,196 in year five.

This PP definitely went the lazy AI route and got exposed as a fraud.

No, again, you’re vastly overstating what most people make. You just have to do a quick google search to get the data. What’s true in one place and one type of work is not true everywhere.

Those are the apprenticeship salary levels by year from IBEW Local 26, the electrical union for the DMV. I’m not overestimating, I’m providing Local 26’s information.

[Anonymous]

I am an attorney whose senior is planning to go to NVCC. He has AuDHD with relatively low support needs, but high school burned him out. He found a program that he is interested in and that feels manageable to him. A 2 year program feels like something he can accomplish whereas 4 years is overwhelming. He isn't ruling out going for a BA after his associates.

It's hard to break away from the expectation that every kid will go to a 4-year college. But I would rather pay for an Associates than have him drop out of a 4 year school without a degree.

Fingers crossed that it works out for all of our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given a third of this country loves the criminal traitor President.

Education in this country needs an overhall.

Let MAGA stay out of higher ed.

No fan of Trump, but the academic complex’s problems have been long in the making.

The value proposition at many colleges is poor.

The number of students who can do rigorous university level work is declining. So throwing money at the problem will not be sufficient. And the student loan program? The terms alone are abominable.

A demographic cliff is looming.

These problems all existed before Trump. And they will exist after his administration.

My home state of Illinois has one of the worst public higher ed systems in the nation. Expensive, with declining enrollments (save for UIC and UIUC). They are projecting less than the 190,000 students they have today. The typical complaint is the state doesn’t spend enough. But 43 percent of expenditures go to pensions. Not sustainable.

Of course some don’t accept these assertions. But over 50 percent of college students leave the state. Interviewers ask Purdue prospects from Illinois why Purdue. The response is often it cheaper than University of Illinois and a better value. Better value from an Out of state institutions. Ditto for schools like Iowa and Missouri. Illinois State with its 90 percent acceptance doesn’t compete well. These challenges have nothing to do with Trump or MAGA. The schools need to offer a better value.

[Anonymous]

$250,000 is a lot to pay for 4-year adult sleep away camp.

[Anonymous]

The job market every year going forward for the foreseeable future will be worse than the previous years for graduating college students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet … applications to college continue to surge.

+1

…and yet admission rates have gone from 60% to 15% at several universities over the last 10 years!

Double the cost, quarter of the chance to get in… competition more fierce than ever…

Explain that to me.

Is it all due to foreigners applying in record numbers over the last decade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet … applications to college continue to surge.

+1

…and yet admission rates have gone from 60% to 15% at several universities over the last 10 years!

Double the cost, quarter of the chance to get in… competition more fierce than ever…

Explain that to me.

Is it all due to foreigners applying in record numbers over the last decade?

When kids apply to 20 schools with little chance of being admitted the “admissions rates” drop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College should be about learning, not about getting a job!

College is not the only way for 18-21 year olds to learn.

Going to college has not been the default setting in this country for that long.

The majority of the increase in college attendance is in fields that lead to some sort of career or in anticipation of a graduate program which would lead to a career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet … applications to college continue to surge.

+1 I wish people felt the same way when my kids were applying three years ago and this past year.

Top tier colleges and big state flagships have nothing to worry about. They'll still get a ton of applications. It's the LACs and the very low tiered colleges that need to worry.

+1
Top of the class kids are still going to apply to top tier colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Good. They are right. Aside from a small handful of professions, 4 year degrees are worthless. We need to move toward apprenticeship for office jobs.

There aren't going to be as many "office jobs" in the future pp, so no need for apprenticeships for them.

The jobs that will be there are things machines can't do: cut hair, fix cars and other machinery, repair roads, grow food, clean houses do lawn care etc... Essentially any job current low paid immigrants are doing.

Yes there will be. Spend some time listening to real AI experts and building RAG models. You will quickly learn that AI won’t replace humans but will augment work.

That's not the current plan of the billionaires though. I'm actually married to an AI expert.

I am not an expert in AI, but I took an econ class or two in college and we have seen alleged labor destroying technology before and every time some people said that it would lead to overall decreases in demand for labor.

The cotton gin eliminated one bottleneck but that just made other things bottlenecks, in this case cotton picking. As long as the thing being produced is an economic "good" the relief of one bottleneck will create other bottlenecks.

The trick is trying to figure out the part of the production chain will be the new bottleneck.

I doubt we will get to AGI in our lifetime, definitely not with LLMs. LLMs are the myspace/tivo/flip-phone/walkman/AOL of AI.

AI is not anywhere near the point where it can generate its own prompts.
It is not curious.
It is has no desires.
It doesn't understand anything.
It's responses right now based on LLMs are basically a chinese room, it doesn't understand what it is being asked.

But we are no longer at the point where the B+ student with a 1200 SAT score and a CS degree from GMU will have 90+% employment at graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle-class parent, it often feels like the entire system is stacked against us. My children are academically strong, but without paying for private K–12 schools, specialized extracurriculars, or competitive sports, their chances of getting into top colleges feel limited. And even if they do get in, without family connections they’re stepping into a job market with shrinking white-collar opportunities. Outsourcing and AI are only making high-paying jobs harder to find.

Raising a family has become a long, exhausting journey for the middle class. By the time we hope our kids can launch into adulthood, many of them can’t afford to live independently. With inflation rising and wages barely moving, homeownership feels increasingly out of reach. I see colleagues delaying retirement because they still have to support their adult children. This is not what middle-class families expect after encouraging their kids to study hard, earn degrees, and become self-sufficient.

Why has higher education become such an expensive product for the middle class?

Wages have been increasing faster than inflation for the last year+.

“ Wages have been increasing faster than inflation in the United States from July 2024 to July 2025, with nominal wages rising by 4.2% compared to an inflation rate of 2.7%, resulting in a 1.5 percentage point advantage for wage growth. This trend has been consistent since February 2024, with wage growth outpacing inflation each month. Real wages, which account for inflation, increased by $18 to $30 per week during this period depending on the measurement timeframe.”

We’re still in a bit of a hole after the runaway inflation a few years ago, but your statement isn’t at all true.

"Wages barely moving" seems like a decent description

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle-class parent, it often feels like the entire system is stacked against us. My children are academically strong, but without paying for private K–12 schools, specialized extracurriculars, or competitive sports, their chances of getting into top colleges feel limited. And even if they do get in, without family connections they’re stepping into a job market with shrinking white-collar opportunities. Outsourcing and AI are only making high-paying jobs harder to find.

Raising a family has become a long, exhausting journey for the middle class. By the time we hope our kids can launch into adulthood, many of them can’t afford to live independently. With inflation rising and wages barely moving, homeownership feels increasingly out of reach. I see colleagues delaying retirement because they still have to support their adult children. This is not what middle-class families expect after encouraging their kids to study hard, earn degrees, and become self-sufficient.

Why has higher education become such an expensive product for the middle class?

Wages have been increasing faster than inflation for the last year+.

“ Wages have been increasing faster than inflation in the United States from July 2024 to July 2025, with nominal wages rising by 4.2% compared to an inflation rate of 2.7%, resulting in a 1.5 percentage point advantage for wage growth. This trend has been consistent since February 2024, with wage growth outpacing inflation each month. Real wages, which account for inflation, increased by $18 to $30 per week during this period depending on the measurement timeframe.”

We’re still in a bit of a hole after the runaway inflation a few years ago, but your statement isn’t at all true.

Oh wow a whole year! That should really go far!

Honest question: are you trolling or are you really this stupid?

I mean, the statement was inflation was rising and wages were stagnant; that’s not true. We’re 1% below in spending power from where we were before the last bout of bad inflation; that hardly seems to warrant the histrionics of the post I responded to.

Can you please just provide links so I don't have to take your post and stick it in google to see where you are getting your info from. Visual capitalist and statista are credible sources because they link to the bureau of labor statistics and the federal reserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College should be about learning, not about getting a job!

I would argue that K-12 is about learning for the sake of learning. Past grade 12, it’s about a career and entering the work force. When the US began acting like college was compensatory education and propped it up by government lending programs, things went off the rails.
Other countries have free or low cost universities which have programs much for specialised towards careers than here.

Then don't go to college and go to trade/vocational programs. Colleges are not designed around optimizing your career opportunities.

Trade school doesn't grant engineering degrees.
Professional schools don't take trade school credentials in their application process.

The general education university degree is really just a vanity project you engage in to make your self marriageable material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. They are right. Aside from a small handful of professions, 4 year degrees are worthless. We need to move toward apprenticeship for office jobs.

There aren't going to be as many "office jobs" in the future pp, so no need for apprenticeships for them.

The jobs that will be there are things machines can't do: cut hair, fix cars and other machinery, repair roads, grow food, clean houses do lawn care etc... Essentially any job current low paid immigrants are doing.

Yes there will be. Spend some time listening to real AI experts and building RAG models. You will quickly learn that AI won’t replace humans but will augment work.

That's not the current plan of the billionaires though. I'm actually married to an AI expert.

So you don’t actually know what you’re talking about.

Yes, I have eyes and ears and see what is happening with billionaires. They don't want to pay people fair wages for their work and the fewer workers the better, apparently.

That's a propaganda phrase invented by the rich Socialists to keep the dumb poors always unhappy and trying to work harder to pay more taxes.

You fell for the PSYOP.

You should have enough money to live. In elon musks dream, you get paid $1/hour and are worse off than a serf. Get real.

I hate what Elon Musk has turned into but thgis is clearly not what Elon Musk wants for the human race generally and for Americans in particular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, talentless Americans.

- H1B import

We're not talentless, just intellectually lazy.