How is everyone affording all of this international travel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

[Anonymous]

Two things: HHI.

Miles / points.

Travel a ton for work on full fare business tickets which max out United’s mileage earning at 75,000 miles per round trip. This adds up really quick when you do it 10-12x/year.

Because of our HHI, we spend a lot so generate a ton of points on cards. Talking high 6 figures/year without churning. We use these points as much as we can, but if it doesn’t make sense, we just use cash.

Usually we go overseas at Spring break, winter break and 2-3 weeks in the summer, with some domestic weekends away during the school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

Of course the cash component on any reward flight into the UK is always small. Try finding a similar flight out. That’s where they get you on the surcharge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’ve churned credit cards for decades now, just for the bonus points, then cancel before the annual fee hits for the next year. At this point our kids are grown so we could afford to pay $ but the habit and benefits are just too ingrained and amazing to give up.

does this affect your credit score?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve churned credit cards for decades now, just for the bonus points, then cancel before the annual fee hits for the next year. At this point our kids are grown so we could afford to pay $ but the habit and benefits are just too ingrained and amazing to give up.

does this affect your credit score?

Generally no if you have a 10+ year credit history and maintain a couple of your older cards.

https://onemileatatime.com/insights/my-credit-score/

There are a lot of myths or misunderstandings around things which impact your credit score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

Ha 6-8 I wish. More like 0-2 on most flights.

[Anonymous]

Kind of similar to what others have mentioned here, but:

1. We aren't rich, but we do o.k.: HHI is about $175k. That obviously puts us in a way better position than most Americans for travel.

2. International travel - the way we do it - isn't much more expensive than domestic travel. My wife has a gift for cheap airfare and we often choose our destination based on a cheap ticket she was able to find. From there, we find an Airbnb and - the odd Michelin splurge aside - we're not exactly blowing a ton of money on fine dining.

3. Travel is a shared priority for my wife and I. Some people spend a lot of money on hobbies or cars or home improvement or other priorities. Travel is at the top of our list after necessities and retirement saving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please just help me understand.

One child. Have not traded up from starter home. Prioritize travel over toys. Went to college when it was cheap and never had to take out loans. Always pay cash for used cars so have never had a car payment. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Europe generally has a lower standard of living than the US, so I find it relatively cheap to travel around Europe, all things held equal.

Sure, it is expensive to stay in the St. Regis, Rome, but it's equally, if not more expensive, to stay in the St. Regis, New York.

[Anonymous]

Yes, we make $150-200k/yr (some variation over the last few years). 1 kid.

We spend $10k per year on all of our travel. But this is what it gets us:

In 2025, $10k got us
-1 week in Europe
-2 weeks Hawaii
-Long weekend in Caribbean
-Plus 2 flying trips to see family

2024
-1 week in Europe
-2 weeks in Mexico
-Long weekend in Caribbean
-Plus 2 flying trips to see family

We each open a few credit cards per year to get bonuses, book flights a year out, use points for hotels or Airbnb for lodging. Flights are almost free or a few hundred for taxes for international trips. We got the companion pass for Southwest (by opening 2 SW credit cards).

[Anonymous]

It's two things:
Travel is comparatively cheaper than it used to be. When adjusted for inflation, average U.S. domestic airfares have fallen dramatically over the last 30-40 years.

The Airbnb model has also made lodging more affordable.

The second thing is that social media has highlighted travel. Twenty years ago, we had little idea who was going where.

[Anonymous]

We piggyback off DH’s travel, which these days is generally internationally, Europe or Asia. I have lots of leave and fairly decent flexibility. We also make good money, rich by US/world standards, UMC by DCUM standards. Also stick to two credit cards, one for flights (united), one for hotels (hyatt).

[Anonymous]

Earlier I said we do YNAB but also - it is also cheaper if you're not married to one destination. I often use google flights explore to see where I can go and for what price and select a trip destination that way. I need more time to read through the rest of the responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we make $150-200k/yr (some variation over the last few years). 1 kid.

We spend $10k per year on all of our travel. But this is what it gets us:

In 2025, $10k got us
-1 week in Europe
-2 weeks Hawaii
-Long weekend in Caribbean
-Plus 2 flying trips to see family

2024
-1 week in Europe
-2 weeks in Mexico
-Long weekend in Caribbean
-Plus 2 flying trips to see family

We each open a few credit cards per year to get bonuses, book flights a year out, use points for hotels or Airbnb for lodging. Flights are almost free or a few hundred for taxes for international trips. We got the companion pass for Southwest (by opening 2 SW credit cards).

Where do you go for a long weekend in the Caribbean? Direct flight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's two things:
Travel is comparatively cheaper than it used to be. When adjusted for inflation, average U.S. domestic airfares have fallen dramatically over the last 30-40 years.

The Airbnb model has also made lodging more affordable.

The second thing is that social media has highlighted travel. Twenty years ago, we had little idea who was going where.

This. You see this with international travel too now. Growing up in the 90s, domestic middle class vacations never involved flights, now it seems to be the norm the past 10-15 years or so thanks to the lower cost airlines like Spirit, OG Southwest, OG JetBlue, etc.