AAP Center Expansion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nearly every single kid getting busted to a middle school AAP center will still need to ride a bus to their base middle school.

Putting AAP at every middle school will have minimal to zero effect on busses.

Disagree:

Few of those buses are overflowing. It will definitely cut the number of buses.
Most of those being bused to AAP centers out of their boundary are going longer distances. Longer distances require more buses because of the time required --in other words, they are not as able to take another run. And, it is greater gas expense.

No, it won't.

Those kids will still be on crowded busses, just going to a different school.

It will make no notable difference to the buss costs or crowded busses to put AAP at every middle school.

Most middle school students live outside of the walk zone, whether or not the school is an AAP center.

Wow. Suggest you get a map and plot the routes. Double buses going through neighborhoods and longer distances. You really cannot understand that?

An example: Herndon neighborhoods going to Hughes instead of Herndon.
Extra buses and a longer distance. Multiply that across the county. It definitely adds up.

It does not equate to more buses. It equates to more bus stops and therefore longer bus runs. The primary saving is in time. Kids spending less time on a bus is a good thing.

Long bus routes won’t be eliminated, though, so it’s doubtful this will have any impact on school start times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nearly every single kid getting busted to a middle school AAP center will still need to ride a bus to their base middle school.

Putting AAP at every middle school will have minimal to zero effect on busses.

Disagree:

Few of those buses are overflowing. It will definitely cut the number of buses.
Most of those being bused to AAP centers out of their boundary are going longer distances. Longer distances require more buses because of the time required --in other words, they are not as able to take another run. And, it is greater gas expense.

No, it won't.

Those kids will still be on crowded busses, just going to a different school.

It will make no notable difference to the buss costs or crowded busses to put AAP at every middle school.

Most middle school students live outside of the walk zone, whether or not the school is an AAP center.

Wow. Suggest you get a map and plot the routes. Double buses going through neighborhoods and longer distances. You really cannot understand that?

An example: Herndon neighborhoods going to Hughes instead of Herndon.
Extra buses and a longer distance. Multiply that across the county. It definitely adds up.

It does not equate to more buses. It equates to more bus stops and therefore longer bus runs. The primary saving is in time. Kids spending less time on a bus is a good thing.

Long bus routes won’t be eliminated, though, so it’s doubtful this will have any impact on school start times.

You've never worked in logistics have you?

Of course, many long bus routes will be eliminated. I've no idea how many, but it might have a positive effect on school start times. If they would do this at the elementary schools, it would definitely have an impact on school start times.
In any case, it will be a money savings and likely make the bus routes more economical. It makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Half of the middle schools have no AAP center. That means that half of the middle schools have double busing to another middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nearly every single kid getting busted to a middle school AAP center will still need to ride a bus to their base middle school.

Putting AAP at every middle school will have minimal to zero effect on busses.

Disagree:

Few of those buses are overflowing. It will definitely cut the number of buses.
Most of those being bused to AAP centers out of their boundary are going longer distances. Longer distances require more buses because of the time required --in other words, they are not as able to take another run. And, it is greater gas expense.

No, it won't.

Those kids will still be on crowded busses, just going to a different school.

It will make no notable difference to the buss costs or crowded busses to put AAP at every middle school.

Most middle school students live outside of the walk zone, whether or not the school is an AAP center.

Wow. Suggest you get a map and plot the routes. Double buses going through neighborhoods and longer distances. You really cannot understand that?

An example: Herndon neighborhoods going to Hughes instead of Herndon.
Extra buses and a longer distance. Multiply that across the county. It definitely adds up.

It does not equate to more buses. It equates to more bus stops and therefore longer bus runs. The primary saving is in time. Kids spending less time on a bus is a good thing.

Long bus routes won’t be eliminated, though, so it’s doubtful this will have any impact on school start times.

You've never worked in logistics have you?

Of course, many long bus routes will be eliminated. I've no idea how many, but it might have a positive effect on school start times. If they would do this at the elementary schools, it would definitely have an impact on school start times.
In any case, it will be a money savings and likely make the bus routes more economical. It makes sense.

You are wrong.

[Anonymous]

From Kyle McDaniel’s email this morning:

“Right now, there are 12 middle schools that have no AAP center, representing 10 high school pyramids: Herndon, Madison, Mount Vernon, Centreville, Robinson, West Springfield, Westfield, Hayfield, Lewis, and Annandale. My colleague, Dr. Anderson from the Mason District, moved a separate item to establish an AAP center at Poe Middle School to serve the Annandale pyramid, which I was happy to second and support.”

I think this change to put AAP in all middles is a good thing. It should reduce transportation costs and times at the very least. Like right now, kids in bounds for Key/Lewis are being bussed to either Twain or Lake Braddock for AAP and kids at Hayfield are also being bussed to Twain. If you’re out in Clifton zoned for Robinson, you’re also at LB for AAP and that is a haul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Half of the middle schools have no AAP center. That means that half of the middle schools have double busing to another middle school.

Those kids will still be on busses.

The current middle school busses are all packed.

They will still be packed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Half of the middle schools have no AAP center. That means that half of the middle schools have double busing to another middle school.

But they all have honors.

They are moving towards honors for all. And removing AAP at middle schools.

[Anonymous]

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The initial boundary review did identify and state that adding everyone back to their base school would put Franklin at 131%. It states it would be over capacity by a volume that isn’t acceptable to the county. They may have to shift some Franklin kids to Rocky Run or Luther Jackson to make room for Carson kids returning.

I think you might mean Katherine Johnson it has AAP already and is a lot closer to this area than Jackson. It's right off of Route 50 and Jermantown Road is one light away on 50 from Waples Mill Road. Then you would have to pull Willow Springs out of Johnson. Not sure if Fairfax Villa is going back to Johnson/Fairfax from Woodson /Frost that only changed between 2010 and 2013 I believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does this mean that we will have enough busses to scrap the awful start time survey options they've sent out???

No, that’s what the idiots don’t understand. Eliminating busing to AAP centers won’t really help at all.

Hopefully showing that AAP busing makes little to no difference will shut these people up once and for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half of the middle schools have no AAP center. That means that half of the middle schools have double busing to another middle school.

But they all have honors.

They are moving towards honors for all. And removing AAP at middle schools.

But that’s not what they voted on. You are predicting “honors for all” simply because you wanted to preserve your special AAP “center” (Carson?) to which kids from multiple pyramids are bused. Boo hoo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half of the middle schools have no AAP center. That means that half of the middle schools have double busing to another middle school.

But they all have honors.

They are moving towards honors for all. And removing AAP at middle schools.

But that’s not what they voted on. You are predicting “honors for all” simply because you wanted to preserve your special AAP “center” (Carson?) to which kids from multiple pyramids are bused. Boo hoo.

I don’t understand all the hate towards Carson on this thread. What did they do to you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does this mean that we will have enough busses to scrap the awful start time survey options they've sent out???

Doubtful. The number of buses needed won’t change dramatically, since kids bussed to AAP Centers will likely still be bussed to their base school. So the volume will only decrease slightly from AAP kids who can walk to their base school.

Bus run times might decrease with the reduction of double bussing, but there will still be long routes for the less densely populated areas.

No, those kids can just take the bus that goes along their regular route.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Seems to me that if every middle school can send kids to TJ, then every middle school should be able to offer AAP.

Not that straightforward because certain courses require certain requirements. For example, a random teacher can’t just teach algebra and geometry (which is why algebra in 6th grade is crazy). You need a math endorsement from VDOE. Some local schools may not have the staff with those requirements.

I believe every MS has math teachers for Algebra 1 and most have a teacher for Geometry but those classes are not AAP classes.

But there are schools that do not have enough AAP students to offer AAP classes so the AAP kids are in honors classes. Center schools can offer AAP classes because they have more students and can offer multiple AAP classes in LA, Social Studies, and Science to meet the scheduling needs of the AAP kids at the school.

Some people will tell you that the honors courses are teaching the same material as the AAP courses, some people will tell you that the AAP courses go a bit more in depth. At a Center school, AAP kids will only be in classes with other AAP kids. Parents send their kids to the Center because they think the peer group is stronger and they don't like the open enrollment in Honors classes.

Every MS should hve enough kids who were selected for AAP that they have enough kids to fill out multiple sections of the 3 core AAP classes. There really isn't a need for MS Centers.

Why are people so bothered by MS center schools? What’s it to you if AAP kids choose to go to a center school over the local? It has no effect on your kid.

Not true in some cases. Take Lewis for example. Kids leave the pyramid for AAP middle school and then frequently transfer for high school (like at LBSS). This robs Lewis of high performing students and thus impacts the advanced courses Lewis can offer.

It is not an AAP kid’s job to create opportunity for non-AAP students. That is the job of FCPS. If you want better programming, you need to ask the county to provide it. Another student shouldn’t have to compromise on their education to trick FCPS into offering better programming.

Your kid can still have access to AAP if they offer it at every middle school. You aren’t owed a massive AAP center that is fed by three or four middle schools.

Why does it matter to you? Why so bothered?

I am going to guess you're a parent whose kid will go to Franklin instead of Carson if they put AAP at all middle schools. Why so worried? If there is an AAP program at Franklin your kid will be with many of their peers from Navy. Why should you get a choice to optimize your kid's education without having to move to a new home, that others do not get?

If that's the case, that a parent is concerned about sending their child to Franklin instead of Carson, they shouldn't worry. I sent kids through AAP programs at both Carson and Franklin, and we were significantly more impressed with Franklin's program than Carson's. There is nothing to worry about.

That’s funny. I had one at Carson and one at Franklin. Franklin was a complete joke. The teachers are not good, they don’t use best practice, and it’s completely unorganized. Not to mention the pathetic after school program.

You had that experience with Franklin's AAP program? I'm shocked. The AAP teachers, especially History 7, Algebra I Honors, English 7, and Geometry Honors are very good and they for sure used best practice. I also wouldn't call any of those teachers disorganized. In fact, my AAP kids learned good organizational skills from their History 7, English 7, and Algebra teachers in 7th grade.

+1. DD is currently at Franklin and her teachers are absolutely phenomenal.

I may be wrong but I believe the boundary proposals stated that Franklin would be severely over capacity if the boundary changes went thru as is. It’s currently at 95% and if everyone returned to the base school it would be at 131% or so. Maybe they will shift some kids out of Franklin to make room? Otherwise I don’t see Carson kids getting absorbed easily.

No I think you're wrong. Franklin is at 80-something. Plenty of room for the Carson kids.

The initial boundary review did identify and state that adding everyone back to their base school would put Franklin at 131%. It states it would be over capacity by a volume that isn’t acceptable to the county. They may have to shift some Franklin kids to Rocky Run or Luther Jackson to make room for Carson kids returning.

They should move the kids that go to Chantilly HS to Rocky Run. I get that Lees Corner is walking distance to Franklin, but that would make the most sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does this mean that we will have enough busses to scrap the awful start time survey options they've sent out???

Doubtful. The number of buses needed won’t change dramatically, since kids bussed to AAP Centers will likely still be bussed to their base school. So the volume will only decrease slightly from AAP kids who can walk to their base school.

Bus run times might decrease with the reduction of double bussing, but there will still be long routes for the less densely populated areas.

No, those kids can just take the bus that goes along their regular route.

How do you think those buses will be able to accommodate a lot more students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to me that if every middle school can send kids to TJ, then every middle school should be able to offer AAP.

Not that straightforward because certain courses require certain requirements. For example, a random teacher can’t just teach algebra and geometry (which is why algebra in 6th grade is crazy). You need a math endorsement from VDOE. Some local schools may not have the staff with those requirements.

I believe every MS has math teachers for Algebra 1 and most have a teacher for Geometry but those classes are not AAP classes.

But there are schools that do not have enough AAP students to offer AAP classes so the AAP kids are in honors classes. Center schools can offer AAP classes because they have more students and can offer multiple AAP classes in LA, Social Studies, and Science to meet the scheduling needs of the AAP kids at the school.

Some people will tell you that the honors courses are teaching the same material as the AAP courses, some people will tell you that the AAP courses go a bit more in depth. At a Center school, AAP kids will only be in classes with other AAP kids. Parents send their kids to the Center because they think the peer group is stronger and they don't like the open enrollment in Honors classes.

Every MS should hve enough kids who were selected for AAP that they have enough kids to fill out multiple sections of the 3 core AAP classes. There really isn't a need for MS Centers.

Why are people so bothered by MS center schools? What’s it to you if AAP kids choose to go to a center school over the local? It has no effect on your kid.

Not true in some cases. Take Lewis for example. Kids leave the pyramid for AAP middle school and then frequently transfer for high school (like at LBSS). This robs Lewis of high performing students and thus impacts the advanced courses Lewis can offer.

It is not an AAP kid’s job to create opportunity for non-AAP students. That is the job of FCPS. If you want better programming, you need to ask the county to provide it. Another student shouldn’t have to compromise on their education to trick FCPS into offering better programming.

Your kid can still have access to AAP if they offer it at every middle school. You aren’t owed a massive AAP center that is fed by three or four middle schools.

Why does it matter to you? Why so bothered?

I am going to guess you're a parent whose kid will go to Franklin instead of Carson if they put AAP at all middle schools. Why so worried? If there is an AAP program at Franklin your kid will be with many of their peers from Navy. Why should you get a choice to optimize your kid's education without having to move to a new home, that others do not get?

If that's the case, that a parent is concerned about sending their child to Franklin instead of Carson, they shouldn't worry. I sent kids through AAP programs at both Carson and Franklin, and we were significantly more impressed with Franklin's program than Carson's. There is nothing to worry about.

That’s funny. I had one at Carson and one at Franklin. Franklin was a complete joke. The teachers are not good, they don’t use best practice, and it’s completely unorganized. Not to mention the pathetic after school program.

You had that experience with Franklin's AAP program? I'm shocked. The AAP teachers, especially History 7, Algebra I Honors, English 7, and Geometry Honors are very good and they for sure used best practice. I also wouldn't call any of those teachers disorganized. In fact, my AAP kids learned good organizational skills from their History 7, English 7, and Algebra teachers in 7th grade.

+1. DD is currently at Franklin and her teachers are absolutely phenomenal.

I may be wrong but I believe the boundary proposals stated that Franklin would be severely over capacity if the boundary changes went thru as is. It’s currently at 95% and if everyone returned to the base school it would be at 131% or so. Maybe they will shift some kids out of Franklin to make room? Otherwise I don’t see Carson kids getting absorbed easily.

No I think you're wrong. Franklin is at 80-something. Plenty of room for the Carson kids.

The initial boundary review did identify and state that adding everyone back to their base school would put Franklin at 131%. It states it would be over capacity by a volume that isn’t acceptable to the county. They may have to shift some Franklin kids to Rocky Run or Luther Jackson to make room for Carson kids returning.

They should move the kids that go to Chantilly HS to Rocky Run. I get that Lees Corner is walking distance to Franklin, but that would make the most sense.

Oak Hill is also a Franklin school. Some of Oak Hill is directly across the street from Franklin. Navy and Waples Mill are also Franklin boundary, too. Franklin can well justify AAP.