AAP Center Expansion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Umm yes there is. There are MSs that offer classes online because they don’t have staff to teach certain classes.

Which middle school is only offering Algebra I or Geometry online due to not having licensed staff?
Please name the school(s), for that is highly unlikely since it is nearly impossible to be hired to teach middle school math unless you already hold at least the Algebra endorsement.

There are definitely middle schools who offer Algebra II and/or pre-calc online, but it is not because they don’t have the staff to teach it. Rather, it is because there are too few kids taking that class to justify an entire section for fewer than 8 students.

With the pilot Algebra I in Grade 6, there will be a greater demand for Algebra II in middle school, but there currently aren't that many students taking Algebra II (or higher) in middle school. Only a few middle schools even have a section of Algebra II at all.

Is the PP, the one who incorrectly said there are middle schools that offer online math classes because they dont have the staff to teach them, going to respond to the above post?

You can look up the licenses of the math teachers at your child's school. If their license says "Mathematics," that covers math through high school courses. If their license says "Middle Education 6-8, Algebra endorsement), that covers them to teach through Algebra 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will kids in AAP still get to choose whether they want to go to the center similar to how they choose in elementary grades? I do not want my AAP kid going to our zoned middle school under any circumstances.

That would be the whole point - eliminating that choice at MS.

Which, honestly, makes sense.

No, it would be the same as having the choice to go to the center versus local AAP that elementary school aged AAP kids have.

That choice exists at the elementary levels because some schools don't have enough identified kids to run the program. Middle schools have many more kids in a grade so there would be enough kids to do so.

I've looked at our boundaries, and our MS base boundary ispretty darn close to our ES AAP boundary. Our ES AAP center as it is struggles to fill a big enough cohort. I get that there are other places in the county where the MSs could have a big enough cohort to support AAP at every MS. I just don't think my corner of the county really can, so getting rid of the Center AAP school for us would be a huge negative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not add AAP to all elementary schools too? The Board said kids reach different levels of learning throughout their lives and should have opportunities available to them so then shouldn’t you have AAP at all elementary schools by that logic? Especially considering they spend 7 years in elementary versus just 2 in middle? Why isn’t bussing an issue at the elementary level too, why only at the middle school level?

They're trying this with LLIV but at least at our elem, they just don't have the #s to support this. We asked at our info session for the base school if for LLIV the rest of the LIV class would be filled out with level 3 kids and then they all just get the LIV curriculum (since most of those kids would probably be fine with it) and they just gave us this dumb look and said "even if we did that we still wouldn't have enough to fill a whole class."

Basically, there's no getting around the fact that in some places you're going to have to put kids in that class that can't handle the deeper content. And from my optic, I really don't care who is in the class, as long as the rigor isn't compromised. But that also means the kids at the bottom aren't getting what they need, which isn't fair to them really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems to me that if every middle school can send kids to TJ, then every middle school should be able to offer AAP.

Some middle schools may only send 1-5 kids to TJ on a given year. That doesn't mean they have enough AAP (or kids that are close enough) to be able to field a whole class of them that you'd need in order to offer AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[url]

Anonymous wrote:Does this mean that we will have enough busses to scrap the awful start time survey options they've sent out???

I thought this is being done TO make the new times work

This won't make a big enough dent.

The issue with the busses: Before HSs started going later, the HS/MSs would go at an early time and the ESs would go at a later time. I have to imagine that most of the busses would be used to do an early run, then a late run. (Given there's 7 grades in elem and 6 grades in MS/HS, that makes sense - about half your population for each bus "shift").

But then they talked about moving HS start times later and complained it would increase bus costs dramatically. Which didn't make any sense until you realized that was because they moved the HS start times later but didn't move anyone else's start times. So they had to add a bunch of buses to accomodate the fact that now everyone is traveling at the same time, instead of in non-overlapping shifts

With the survey that went out, they're clearly trying to get back to having 2 different bus "shifts", each for half the population. That probably *will* save tons of money, but just getting rid of AAP transportation is a drop in the bucket compared to the whole county's worth of busing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not an AAP kid’s job to create opportunity for non-AAP students. That is the job of FCPS. If you want better programming, you need to ask the county to provide it. Another student shouldn’t have to compromise on their education to trick FCPS into offering better programming.

Your kid can still have access to AAP if they offer it at every middle school. You aren’t owed a massive AAP center that is fed by three or four middle schools.

So, no one will complain when the AAP kids are getting a class to themselves with only 8 students in it? Or when the AAP is open enrollment but the teachers don't slow down for the people who can't keep up and those kids are just failed and held back? We're cool with that now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not an AAP kid’s job to create opportunity for non-AAP students. That is the job of FCPS. If you want better programming, you need to ask the county to provide it. Another student shouldn’t have to compromise on their education to trick FCPS into offering better programming.

Your kid can still have access to AAP if they offer it at every middle school. You aren’t owed a massive AAP center that is fed by three or four middle schools.

So, no one will complain when the AAP kids are getting a class to themselves with only 8 students in it? Or when the AAP is open enrollment but the teachers don't slow down for the people who can't keep up and those kids are just failed and held back? We're cool with that now?

It is already happening at some schools actually. Free for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to me that if every middle school can send kids to TJ, then every middle school should be able to offer AAP.

Not that straightforward because certain courses require certain requirements. For example, a random teacher can’t just teach algebra and geometry (which is why algebra in 6th grade is crazy). You need a math endorsement from VDOE. Some local schools may not have the staff with those requirements.

I believe every MS has math teachers for Algebra 1 and most have a teacher for Geometry but those classes are not AAP classes.

But there are schools that do not have enough AAP students to offer AAP classes so the AAP kids are in honors classes. Center schools can offer AAP classes because they have more students and can offer multiple AAP classes in LA, Social Studies, and Science to meet the scheduling needs of the AAP kids at the school.

Some people will tell you that the honors courses are teaching the same material as the AAP courses, some people will tell you that the AAP courses go a bit more in depth. At a Center school, AAP kids will only be in classes with other AAP kids. Parents send their kids to the Center because they think the peer group is stronger and they don't like the open enrollment in Honors classes.

Every MS should hve enough kids who were selected for AAP that they have enough kids to fill out multiple sections of the 3 core AAP classes. There really isn't a need for MS Centers.

Plus, once you get to HS, it truly is Honors for all! Or at least, honors for all who want it...

A large percentage of the kids in AAP will take AP classes as soon as they can, although not all. A large percentage of the MS kids in hoors will take AP classes as soon as they can. HS is a different system.

My kid is at Carson, he is in AAP classes. All of his core classes are with kids in AAP. A few friends have made some snide comments about not mixing with the commoners but, for the most part, it is not a big deal. There are enough AAP kids at the school that there are AAP classes in all of the teams, most of them have at least 2 classes for each of the core subjects. I am fine with the AAP students returning to Franklin, there would be fewer AAP classes but still plenty to have a strong program.

Sorry Franklin is nowhere in the ballpark of Carson academically. It’s an ok program, but not even close to what Carson offers.

Oh my gosh, we are talking about middle school. Guess what: Many of those same kids reconvene at Oakton High School and take the same freshman course load and there’s no discernible performance difference between those who went to Carson AAP and those who went to Franklin and did AAP/Honors. (Exception- there are probably more Carson kids taking algebra II or AP pre calculus in 9th). But for everything else, it doesn’t matter that Carson is apparently in its own academic ballpark. They all end up in the same place with comparable grades, IME.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to me that if every middle school can send kids to TJ, then every middle school should be able to offer AAP.

Not that straightforward because certain courses require certain requirements. For example, a random teacher can’t just teach algebra and geometry (which is why algebra in 6th grade is crazy). You need a math endorsement from VDOE. Some local schools may not have the staff with those requirements.

I believe every MS has math teachers for Algebra 1 and most have a teacher for Geometry but those classes are not AAP classes.

But there are schools that do not have enough AAP students to offer AAP classes so the AAP kids are in honors classes. Center schools can offer AAP classes because they have more students and can offer multiple AAP classes in LA, Social Studies, and Science to meet the scheduling needs of the AAP kids at the school.

Some people will tell you that the honors courses are teaching the same material as the AAP courses, some people will tell you that the AAP courses go a bit more in depth. At a Center school, AAP kids will only be in classes with other AAP kids. Parents send their kids to the Center because they think the peer group is stronger and they don't like the open enrollment in Honors classes.

Every MS should hve enough kids who were selected for AAP that they have enough kids to fill out multiple sections of the 3 core AAP classes. There really isn't a need for MS Centers.

Plus, once you get to HS, it truly is Honors for all! Or at least, honors for all who want it...

A large percentage of the kids in AAP will take AP classes as soon as they can, although not all. A large percentage of the MS kids in hoors will take AP classes as soon as they can. HS is a different system.

My kid is at Carson, he is in AAP classes. All of his core classes are with kids in AAP. A few friends have made some snide comments about not mixing with the commoners but, for the most part, it is not a big deal. There are enough AAP kids at the school that there are AAP classes in all of the teams, most of them have at least 2 classes for each of the core subjects. I am fine with the AAP students returning to Franklin, there would be fewer AAP classes but still plenty to have a strong program.

Sorry Franklin is nowhere in the ballpark of Carson academically. It’s an ok program, but not even close to what Carson offers.

Oh my gosh, we are talking about middle school. Guess what: Many of those same kids reconvene at Oakton High School and take the same freshman course load and there’s no discernible performance difference between those who went to Carson AAP and those who went to Franklin and did AAP/Honors. (Exception- there are probably more Carson kids taking algebra II or AP pre calculus in 9th). But for everything else, it doesn’t matter that Carson is apparently in its own academic ballpark. They all end up in the same place with comparable grades, IME.

Source? That's right, you're stating your opinion/wishes as if it is a fact with no proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carson is our base school, our kid is having a great experience. So are his friends, some are AAP and some are Honors. We are fine with the AAP kids there but know the school will be fine if the AAP kids returned to Franklin. We have friends at Franklin who love it. I don’t understand why so many kids choose Carson over Franklin, but we know people who have decided on Franklin and others Carson. I do think the more TJ focus kids end up at Carson and the less TJ focused end up at Franklin. Some choose Carson because that is where their friends are.

The Waples AAP kids mostly choose Carson because most of their Waples AAP friends plus all the Hunters Woods AAP kids they've made friends with since going to the Hunters Woods the 3rd grade will be at Carson. They would be with a bunch of kids they hadn't seen in years if they chose Franklin.
Waples should not be assigned to a center outside of their pyramid. It's ridiculous. And it's even more ridiculous they are bussed past Crossfield (who have AAP in pyramid) on their way to Hunters Woods. I welcome Franklin as a new AAP center. I just wish they'd fix the elementary AAP "split feeder" situation as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to me that if every middle school can send kids to TJ, then every middle school should be able to offer AAP.

Not that straightforward because certain courses require certain requirements. For example, a random teacher can’t just teach algebra and geometry (which is why algebra in 6th grade is crazy). You need a math endorsement from VDOE. Some local schools may not have the staff with those requirements.

I believe every MS has math teachers for Algebra 1 and most have a teacher for Geometry but those classes are not AAP classes.

But there are schools that do not have enough AAP students to offer AAP classes so the AAP kids are in honors classes. Center schools can offer AAP classes because they have more students and can offer multiple AAP classes in LA, Social Studies, and Science to meet the scheduling needs of the AAP kids at the school.

Some people will tell you that the honors courses are teaching the same material as the AAP courses, some people will tell you that the AAP courses go a bit more in depth. At a Center school, AAP kids will only be in classes with other AAP kids. Parents send their kids to the Center because they think the peer group is stronger and they don't like the open enrollment in Honors classes.

Every MS should hve enough kids who were selected for AAP that they have enough kids to fill out multiple sections of the 3 core AAP classes. There really isn't a need for MS Centers.

Plus, once you get to HS, it truly is Honors for all! Or at least, honors for all who want it...

A large percentage of the kids in AAP will take AP classes as soon as they can, although not all. A large percentage of the MS kids in hoors will take AP classes as soon as they can. HS is a different system.

My kid is at Carson, he is in AAP classes. All of his core classes are with kids in AAP. A few friends have made some snide comments about not mixing with the commoners but, for the most part, it is not a big deal. There are enough AAP kids at the school that there are AAP classes in all of the teams, most of them have at least 2 classes for each of the core subjects. I am fine with the AAP students returning to Franklin, there would be fewer AAP classes but still plenty to have a strong program.

Sorry Franklin is nowhere in the ballpark of Carson academically. It’s an ok program, but not even close to what Carson offers.

Oh my gosh, we are talking about middle school. Guess what: Many of those same kids reconvene at Oakton High School and take the same freshman course load and there’s no discernible performance difference between those who went to Carson AAP and those who went to Franklin and did AAP/Honors. (Exception- there are probably more Carson kids taking algebra II or AP pre calculus in 9th). But for everything else, it doesn’t matter that Carson is apparently in its own academic ballpark. They all end up in the same place with comparable grades, IME.

Source? That's right, you're stating your opinion/wishes as if it is a fact with no proof.

No one has completed a study comparing the grades and classes of AAP kids vs gen ed kids in HS. Yet we are all aware that there is a far higher percentage of kids taking honors/AP/IB classes in HS then were in AAP. And we all know plenty of gen ed kids that go on to top colleges out of pretty much every HS.

AAP serves a purpose to help keep kids who are ahead in ES engaged in school while providing kids who are on grade level or behind an opportunity to learn at a pace that makes sense for them. As kids get older and more comfortable with foundational material, they are able to handle the work in Honors classes and, later, AP/IB classes. Most of the kids in AAP are smart but they are not off the charts genius. Some even struggle with HS classes. So yes, I am sure that there are kids from Franklin at Oakton who are doing as well as an AAP kid from Carson at Oakton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to me that if every middle school can send kids to TJ, then every middle school should be able to offer AAP.

Not that straightforward because certain courses require certain requirements. For example, a random teacher can’t just teach algebra and geometry (which is why algebra in 6th grade is crazy). You need a math endorsement from VDOE. Some local schools may not have the staff with those requirements.

I believe every MS has math teachers for Algebra 1 and most have a teacher for Geometry but those classes are not AAP classes.

But there are schools that do not have enough AAP students to offer AAP classes so the AAP kids are in honors classes. Center schools can offer AAP classes because they have more students and can offer multiple AAP classes in LA, Social Studies, and Science to meet the scheduling needs of the AAP kids at the school.

Some people will tell you that the honors courses are teaching the same material as the AAP courses, some people will tell you that the AAP courses go a bit more in depth. At a Center school, AAP kids will only be in classes with other AAP kids. Parents send their kids to the Center because they think the peer group is stronger and they don't like the open enrollment in Honors classes.

Every MS should hve enough kids who were selected for AAP that they have enough kids to fill out multiple sections of the 3 core AAP classes. There really isn't a need for MS Centers.

Plus, once you get to HS, it truly is Honors for all! Or at least, honors for all who want it...

A large percentage of the kids in AAP will take AP classes as soon as they can, although not all. A large percentage of the MS kids in hoors will take AP classes as soon as they can. HS is a different system.

My kid is at Carson, he is in AAP classes. All of his core classes are with kids in AAP. A few friends have made some snide comments about not mixing with the commoners but, for the most part, it is not a big deal. There are enough AAP kids at the school that there are AAP classes in all of the teams, most of them have at least 2 classes for each of the core subjects. I am fine with the AAP students returning to Franklin, there would be fewer AAP classes but still plenty to have a strong program.

Sorry Franklin is nowhere in the ballpark of Carson academically. It’s an ok program, but not even close to what Carson offers.

Oh my gosh, we are talking about middle school. Guess what: Many of those same kids reconvene at Oakton High School and take the same freshman course load and there’s no discernible performance difference between those who went to Carson AAP and those who went to Franklin and did AAP/Honors. (Exception- there are probably more Carson kids taking algebra II or AP pre calculus in 9th). But for everything else, it doesn’t matter that Carson is apparently in its own academic ballpark. They all end up in the same place with comparable grades, IME.

Source? That's right, you're stating your opinion/wishes as if it is a fact with no proof.

No one has completed a study comparing the grades and classes of AAP kids vs gen ed kids in HS. Yet we are all aware that there is a far higher percentage of kids taking honors/AP/IB classes in HS then were in AAP. And we all know plenty of gen ed kids that go on to top colleges out of pretty much every HS.

AAP serves a purpose to help keep kids who are ahead in ES engaged in school while providing kids who are on grade level or behind an opportunity to learn at a pace that makes sense for them. As kids get older and more comfortable with foundational material, they are able to handle the work in Honors classes and, later, AP/IB classes. Most of the kids in AAP are smart but they are not off the charts genius. Some even struggle with HS classes. So yes, I am sure that there are kids from Franklin at Oakton who are doing as well as an AAP kid from Carson at Oakton.

Backpedal all you want, but your statement that there is no difference is completely made up. Obviously you can cherry pick individual results that show what you want - especially with so many parents prepping their kids into AAP who don't belong there. I'd still bet this week's paycheck that the average SOL / SAT / whatever score is higher for the Carson AAP kids over the Franklin AAP/honors ones. Not saying one is better (I'd prefer all middle schools offer AAP with no choice to go to a center myself), just statistically most of the top scoring kids that would have gone to Franklin are currently going to Carson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to me that if every middle school can send kids to TJ, then every middle school should be able to offer AAP.

Not that straightforward because certain courses require certain requirements. For example, a random teacher can’t just teach algebra and geometry (which is why algebra in 6th grade is crazy). You need a math endorsement from VDOE. Some local schools may not have the staff with those requirements.

I believe every MS has math teachers for Algebra 1 and most have a teacher for Geometry but those classes are not AAP classes.

But there are schools that do not have enough AAP students to offer AAP classes so the AAP kids are in honors classes. Center schools can offer AAP classes because they have more students and can offer multiple AAP classes in LA, Social Studies, and Science to meet the scheduling needs of the AAP kids at the school.

Some people will tell you that the honors courses are teaching the same material as the AAP courses, some people will tell you that the AAP courses go a bit more in depth. At a Center school, AAP kids will only be in classes with other AAP kids. Parents send their kids to the Center because they think the peer group is stronger and they don't like the open enrollment in Honors classes.

Every MS should hve enough kids who were selected for AAP that they have enough kids to fill out multiple sections of the 3 core AAP classes. There really isn't a need for MS Centers.

Plus, once you get to HS, it truly is Honors for all! Or at least, honors for all who want it...

A large percentage of the kids in AAP will take AP classes as soon as they can, although not all. A large percentage of the MS kids in hoors will take AP classes as soon as they can. HS is a different system.

My kid is at Carson, he is in AAP classes. All of his core classes are with kids in AAP. A few friends have made some snide comments about not mixing with the commoners but, for the most part, it is not a big deal. There are enough AAP kids at the school that there are AAP classes in all of the teams, most of them have at least 2 classes for each of the core subjects. I am fine with the AAP students returning to Franklin, there would be fewer AAP classes but still plenty to have a strong program.

Sorry Franklin is nowhere in the ballpark of Carson academically. It’s an ok program, but not even close to what Carson offers.

Oh my gosh, we are talking about middle school. Guess what: Many of those same kids reconvene at Oakton High School and take the same freshman course load and there’s no discernible performance difference between those who went to Carson AAP and those who went to Franklin and did AAP/Honors. (Exception- there are probably more Carson kids taking algebra II or AP pre calculus in 9th). But for everything else, it doesn’t matter that Carson is apparently in its own academic ballpark. They all end up in the same place with comparable grades, IME.

Source? That's right, you're stating your opinion/wishes as if it is a fact with no proof.

No one has completed a study comparing the grades and classes of AAP kids vs gen ed kids in HS. Yet we are all aware that there is a far higher percentage of kids taking honors/AP/IB classes in HS then were in AAP. And we all know plenty of gen ed kids that go on to top colleges out of pretty much every HS.

AAP serves a purpose to help keep kids who are ahead in ES engaged in school while providing kids who are on grade level or behind an opportunity to learn at a pace that makes sense for them. As kids get older and more comfortable with foundational material, they are able to handle the work in Honors classes and, later, AP/IB classes. Most of the kids in AAP are smart but they are not off the charts genius. Some even struggle with HS classes. So yes, I am sure that there are kids from Franklin at Oakton who are doing as well as an AAP kid from Carson at Oakton.

Backpedal all you want, but your statement that there is no difference is completely made up. Obviously you can cherry pick individual results that show what you want - especially with so many parents prepping their kids into AAP who don't belong there. I'd still bet this week's paycheck that the average SOL / SAT / whatever score is higher for the Carson AAP kids over the Franklin AAP/honors ones. Not saying one is better (I'd prefer all middle schools offer AAP with no choice to go to a center myself), just statistically most of the top scoring kids that would have gone to Franklin are currently going to Carson.

Sheer numbers-wise, you could be right, for Carson is about 60-70% larger than Franklin. Percentage of students-wise, however, I am willing to gander that the difference is negligible.

Additionally, it is extremely likely that the high-scoring kids would be high-scoring whether they attended Carson or Franklin. It is the CHILD who earned those scores, not anything special the school did. Carson is not some magic place that is responsible for high-achieving kids being high-achieving. Both Carson and Franklin nurture and support those students, and both schools challenge appropriately, as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will kids in AAP still get to choose whether they want to go to the center similar to how they choose in elementary grades? I do not want my AAP kid going to our zoned middle school under any circumstances.

That would be the whole point - eliminating that choice at MS.

Which, honestly, makes sense.

No, it would be the same as having the choice to go to the center versus local AAP that elementary school aged AAP kids have.

Not all elementary schools have local AAP - hence the lingering choice situation. I'd assume elimination of elementary centers would be the next step.

I agree with other posters, though, that not all elementary schools have a large enough cohort to have meaningful program.

Not accurate. All elementary schools were required to start local levels by fall of either 2023 or 2024, can’t recall now. They can grow one grade per year if they choose versus having it available for 3-6 at once. But every school has one. It may not be a robust program, but it exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will kids in AAP still get to choose whether they want to go to the center similar to how they choose in elementary grades? I do not want my AAP kid going to our zoned middle school under any circumstances.

That would be the whole point - eliminating that choice at MS.

Which, honestly, makes sense.

No, it would be the same as having the choice to go to the center versus local AAP that elementary school aged AAP kids have.

Not all elementary schools have local AAP - hence the lingering choice situation. I'd assume elimination of elementary centers would be the next step.

I agree with other posters, though, that not all elementary schools have a large enough cohort to have meaningful program.

Not accurate. All elementary schools were required to start local levels by fall of either 2023 or 2024, can’t recall now. They can grow one grade per year if they choose versus having it available for 3-6 at once. But every school has one. It may not be a robust program, but it exists.

You're wrong. Just look at the FCPS list of local full time services - not every school is included yet. The number missing is small, but it's not zero.