Race on common app

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does it matter anymore?

Hopefully not.

Racists Go Home.

[Anonymous]

The problem for the colleges is that they won't be able to defend statistically different numbers for different racial groups so unless Harvard etc wants to seriously drop in the rankings and start accepting Asian and white kids with 1400 on the SAT it is will not be able to accept a statistically significant number of kids of other races with those stats either.

On the plus side maybe admissions will become more transparent, the schools might be incentivized to actually disclose a minimum GPA and test score for admission? Rather than feeding the vicious cycle of suckering kids into applying to schools they realistically have no chance at and having students applying to 20 colleges it would start to look more like the UK process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The problem for the colleges is that they won't be able to defend statistically different numbers for different racial groups so unless Harvard etc wants to seriously drop in the rankings and start accepting Asian and white kids with 1400 on the SAT it is will not be able to accept a statistically significant number of kids of other races with those stats either.

On the plus side maybe admissions will become more transparent, the schools might be incentivized to actually disclose a minimum GPA and test score for admission? Rather than feeding the vicious cycle of suckering kids into applying to schools they realistically have no chance at and having students applying to 20 colleges it would start to look more like the UK process?

There are quite a few White and Asian students at Harvard with 1400 SAT scores. Don't treat averages as though everyone in the grouping is the same.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why do they even need the data? They should get rid of it all.

Though as someone else said, if you aren't smart enough to drop it in your essay ("As president of my school's black students association..."), you aren't smart enough to go to the school.

Exactly!
My kids are Black and they will work it all day long.

My kids cited their background/ culture in essays from an inspirational standpoint. That's allowed. However, they had 4.0+ GPAs and 1500+ scores too.

The elites schools will get the best URMs.

Ignorant people think just saying you're black in an essay will get you into Harvard.

There's less than 1000 black students with a 1500 SAT score. I don't think people think these are the kids that don't belong at top schools. But a black student with a scooter in the 1300s probably shouldn't be there.

Roughly 1100 black students scored 1500+ in 2005. In 2005 less than 50% of all high school students took the SAT. In 2024 it was around 75%.

I couldn't find actual data for 2024 but I suspect that now, 20 years later, there are many, many more than 1000.

For what it is worth my cousin spent THOUSANDS on SAT prep for her daughter. She got a 1500. But that was 100% prep. The girl dropped out of school first year.

SAT is just one test from one day in their life. It is not the whole story.

Finally - schools haven't seen the race data for two years. If you see black kids accepted to top schools maybe it is because they are strong students with the stats to prove it

Schools have imperfect information that they are using to try and achieve their racial diversity goals.

Also this from another thread.

Let's do the math. In 2022 the SAT test taker demographics were as follows (from https://reports.collegebo...report.pdf)

175,468 Asians
201,645 Black/African Americans
396,422 Hispanic/Latino
732,946 White

In 2020, the percentage of takers getting a 1500+/1400+ (respectively) by race were:

9%/23% of Asians
<1%/1% of Black/African Americans
<1%/2% of Hispanics/Latinos
2%/7% of Whites

That means that among the pool of people getting 1500/1400+ (rounding <1% to 0.5%):

15,792/40,357 are Asian
1,008/2,016 are Black
1,982/7,928 are Hispanic
14,658/51,306 are White

Do what you will with this information.

I can't access the link you shared but find it very hard to believe that there are an average of 20 students from each state that are African American and scored over 1500.

Correct.

And there are hundreds from each state scoring 1400+.

High GPA , good ECs, etc. with 1400+ scores will result in admission to top schools.

Because a random white or Asian may have scored higher on one standardized test is irrelevant. That's not how college admissions work. Blacks , who are underrepresented , can go to the top schools too and can do the work.

1300+ can go to top SLACs.

If some don't like this, oh well.

Underrepresented based on race, overrepresented based on academic qualifications. Which one of those criteria should you use for college admissions?

Underrepresented based on race with the requisite academic stats, test scores, and ECs to warrant admission.

Holistic admissions, buddy.

Start your own college if you don't like it.

[Anonymous]

Mathematically there can't be of any race at 1400.
According to Harvard's most recent CDS the 25th% percentile SAT is 1510 (the 75th is 1580). If there were "quite a few" at 1400 the 25% percentile would be far lower. Of course that is CDS data set is from a TO cycle with 54% submitting SAT scores and 19% submitting ACT.
Harvard's 25% percentile SAT for 2019/20 when tests were required was 1460 and the 75% was 1570

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mathematically there can't be of any race at 1400.
According to Harvard's most recent CDS the 25th% percentile SAT is 1510 (the 75th is 1580). If there were "quite a few" at 1400 the 25% percentile would be far lower. Of course that is CDS data set is from a TO cycle with 54% submitting SAT scores and 19% submitting ACT.
Harvard's 25% percentile SAT for 2019/20 when tests were required was 1460 and the 75% was 1570

David Hogg in with a 1270. And we only know about him because he is famous.

Look at you arguing with reality because it does fit into your math models

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mathematically there can't be of any race at 1400.
According to Harvard's most recent CDS the 25th% percentile SAT is 1510 (the 75th is 1580). If there were "quite a few" at 1400 the 25% percentile would be far lower. Of course that is CDS data set is from a TO cycle with 54% submitting SAT scores and 19% submitting ACT.
Harvard's 25% percentile SAT for 2019/20 when tests were required was 1460 and the 75% was 1570

Mathematically, the bottom quartile scores may be distributed in such a way that there are absolutely several very low scores.

Also keep in mind that the 24-25 CDS has 54% reporting SAT scores and 19% reporting ACT scores. The true bottom quartile didn't report scores at all.

The 24-25 CDS also does not provide a composite SAT middle 50 percentile range. One cannot compute a composite 25th percentile by adding 25th percentile section scores. A 25th percentile composite is probably close to the sum, but we don't know exactly what it is.

[Anonymous]

To be clear. I am in favor of affirmative action.
I'd rather have my kid at a college with David Hogg and lots of students from different backgrounds, races and experiences than a bunch of kids just like him.
However, it is not illegal to discriminate on the basis of being a victim in a school shooting it is to do so on the basis of race/gender.

Yep one admit out of 2000 really moves the CI (confidence interval) on the stats.

As to the actual point. Harvard and all of the rest pre covid test score ranges are the true stats for who they admit. With the end of affirmative action if statistically those students they admit outside of the lower end of range are disproportionately of one or two races (including white for legacy and crew) that is legally suspect regardless of the motivation.

[Anonymous]

Hogg is not the only kid accepted with scores below even the 25th percentile. He managed to handle the work and graduate.

[Anonymous]

Is trump going to require all college applicants submit the ACT or SAT? And submit all AP scores? I don’t see how you can compare kids academically unless everyone is submitting the same data.

[Anonymous]

Hard to say, seems that the schools themselves already started moving back to test required.
I would guess that for the ones that remain TO the percent of TO admits would decline. That way the schools could maintain higher number of applications to keep their admit stats low but lower their risk of having to defend the racial balance of their TO admits, limit it to recruited athletes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is trump going to require all college applicants submit the ACT or SAT? And submit all AP scores? I don’t see how you can compare kids academically unless everyone is submitting the same data.

Doubt it. TO is a way for rich maga kids to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is trump going to require all college applicants submit the ACT or SAT? And submit all AP scores? I don’t see how you can compare kids academically unless everyone is submitting the same data.

Doubt it. TO is a way for rich maga kids to get in.

This.

Rich MAGA kids either use test optional or get diagnosed with something that gets them extra time on the standardized tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is trump going to require all college applicants submit the ACT or SAT? And submit all AP scores? I don’t see how you can compare kids academically unless everyone is submitting the same data.

Doubt it. TO is a way for rich maga kids to get in.

This.

Rich MAGA kids either use test optional or get diagnosed with something that gets them extra time on the standardized tests.

The extra time hack is worth every cent to get the diagnosis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hogg is not the only kid accepted with scores below even the 25th percentile. He managed to handle the work and graduate.

I think David Hogg is a shithead but he is the only upper middle class white kid that is not an athlete or donor with an SAT score that low.

He is not the lowest SAT score at Harvard.

You think 500 kids at harvard that year did what david hogg did?