SIL not vaccinating baby

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn’t families be enmeshed??? Don’t get this DCUM view at all.

No, being enmeshed is dysfunctional. How can you not see that? Enmeshed behavior generally involves being rude. One of the worst things you can do to other people is "treat them like family". This is the reason for so much estrangement. Do you foist your opinions on your other family members all the time? Why would you think you know more than anyone else? The people who seem to do this the most are the worst. They usually have that awful combination of ignorance plus strong opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I agree with that my BIL absolutely bears responsibility here. He’s not a helpless bystander, and it’s beyond frustrating that he just goes along with whatever she says without standing up for what’s right, especially when it comes to something as important as their kids’ health. Honestly, he’s generally an idiot about a lot of things, so this isn’t totally out of character for him.

That said, I don’t think I’m blaming only her or letting him off the hook. I mentioned what he said to us and how he basically doesn’t care enough to push back, which is a huge part of the problem. But practically speaking, she’s the one driving this decision. She researches (or thinks she does), posts about it constantly, and is extremely vocal about it. My BIL is passive, but she’s the active force.

I’m trying to figure out if there’s any way to get through to her specifically, since she’s the one so dug in on the anti-vaccine stuff. I’m not excusing him at all. He’s being weak and irresponsible, but if there’s a chance to change things, it seems like it will have to come through her.

I hear you, though, and I appreciate the reminder that he’s not off the hook just because he’s passive. I’ll try to keep that in mind going forward.

Anyway, thanks for everyone’s responses. To the poster who reminded me that she will have to get vaccinated to go to school, you made me feel a lot better. We just found out about this last night and my first response was definitely anger. I’m not thinking logically. I just feel so bad for the baby, the rest of the kids, and my MIL and FIL.

I’m the OP of the other thread, and I will make this point here, too:

YOUR BIL IS WORSE. SIL has unfortunately fallen prey to an all-media-fronts machine and a movement designed to make her fearful and mistrustful of vaccines and of science. It’s not like she woke up one day and decided Vaccines are Bad. She, like many other parents, have fallen for a weaponized, monetized movement designed to scare parents that has reached the very top levels of government. Forces bigger than her worked on her. Is that ultimately her fault? Yes. But also, at least she is coming from a place of misguidedly-but-genuinely thinking she is doing what is best for her child.

BIL, meanwhile, likely knows better but is apparently too lazy, weak or uncaring to fight for the health and the life of his child. THAT is disgusting. To probably know better and just be like, “happy wife, happy life; oh well” is even more awful than SIL.

You don't know that bil knows better. More than likely he agrees with sil and you and op are just perpetuating the same old sexist bull shite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why can't you respect their choice?
Hard Stop.

Because their choice is dangerous for them and for people around them.

I don't understand why the BIL isn't gething the baby vaccinated. Last I checked, routine healthcare didn't require the consent of both parents.

I hear ya'... But it's not OP's decision to make. Maybe the BIL agrees w his wife and doesn't want to vaccinate either.
Again, bc you don't agree doesn't give you a right to stage an intervention, force your beliefs or medical findings on them/anyone.

It's THEIR child.

+1

OP what do you expect is going to happen here exactly? “SIL I demand you vaccinate your baby. You are ignorant and ill informed” and you think she is going to say “oh, yes of course you are right. I’ll make an appointment this week. Thanks so much for setting me straight.”

I mean…really? LOL.

And I certainly do not agree with your SIL. But is is their kid. Pushing the issue or inserting yourselves is highly likely to cause family relationship problems & a digging in of heels.

MYOB.

What about the business of the child, the rest of OP’s family and society at large? I understand that there’s not much OP can do but I also understand being concerned and wanting to talk to her in laws to see why this is happening.

You need therapy to understand this. It isn't your job to control the behavior of other adults unless there is abuse. You don't get to tell other people how they should live. As a society we agree that some things should be mandated, like seat belt wearing, but you don't get to control other people. Pushing your opinions on other people is rude. In a way you are assuming a position where you think you know more and hold a God like position so you have the right to tell people what decisions they should make. How ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s really important that the family stand up and protest against this wildly negligent SIL. If baby dies or is permanently disabled, they will need to know they did everything they could - and tell their children and grandchildren that. One cannot sit idly by while an innocent child’s suffering is preventable.

If family members ever “stood up to protest my supposed wild negligence” regarding a parenting choice, they would not be seeing much of our family for a good long while and the relationship may be permanently damaged.

And I think the SIL and BIL are fools for not vaccinating. FWIW.

Our siblings do all sorts of things with our nieces and nephews that we disagree with. We mind our own business. I’m sure they feel the same about our parenting at times, and they mind their own business.

Unless it is CPS-worthy issue of immediate danger or clear abuse, MYOB. This does not qualify, even if some people think it should.

Exactly. The behavior the prior poster is supporting is what leads to cut offs. I had premature twins with medical issues and my ils had extreme parenting views that were at odds with issues we had to deal with. Guess who has no relationship with my children?

[Anonymous]

Don't bother talking to them about it and trying to change their minds. People like this thrive on the conflict and don't care at all what you think. At all. It's sad but true. Let it play out how it plays out. I would gray rock the whole discussion, change the subject if it comes up, etc.

I'm on the other side and have had to just say to a couple of people, "I believe in childhood vaccines and you're not going to change my mind." And they are the same. You are not going to get anywhere, especially if their doctor failed at it. I knew one person who was persuaded by her doctor.

It's not your responsibility to save them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My SIL is not a Trump supporter, but she is a big RFK Jr. supporter, to the point that she told me she was happy Trump was elected because he appointed him as head of HHS. She’s been posting a lot of anti-vaccination stuff on Facebook, along with other bananas things like people having conversations with AI about how there’s land on Earth “beyond the ancestral ice wall” that humans don’t know about.

She and my BIL had their fourth baby a little less than three months ago. My husband and I just found out from my MIL that my SIL refused to give the baby her two-month vaccinations and says she won’t be giving her any vaccines at all in the future. The pediatrician, who treated my husband, his brother, and all the nieces and nephews, is livid and refuses to keep baby #4 as a patient anymore. I’m not sure what’s happening with the other three kids.

My BIL would have vaccinated the baby but basically does whatever SIL says and told us he doesn’t really care. MIL and FIL are worried about measles but otherwise seem like they’re not too concerned. I think she’s an idiot for many reasons, but I’ve always been cordial with her. My husband is furious. We just went through a measles scare at our daughter’s daycare, and it’s incredibly upsetting that she’s being so careless with her child’s health—and with the health of others.

We’re visiting for a family event in a few weeks, and I’m not sure what to do. My husband wants to have a family discussion about it, which is fine since it’s his family, but I worry she’s doing this for attention and a confrontation would just give her what she wants. She also tends to use the kids as bargaining chips, and I really want my daughter to have a relationship with her cousins, who are very sweet and smart.

I don’t think a direct confrontation will go well, but I also don’t want to just let it go. I’d like to give her facts and information, though I know she’d probably just say it’s all biased. I’m feeling really stuck. Has anyone dealt with something like this before? What helped?

The sad part is, she has a PhD and used to be a scientist before she left her job after having her third child.

So you don’t like your SIL much- or respect her- and never have (and that was before she had kid #4 and this particular issue arose).

Do you think she is unaware of this? Do you think her husband is unaware of this? I’m sure they assume your DH shares your views as well.

I can’t imagine what you think “confronting them” will achieve here….and given the above, it won’t be taken as “concern for their baby”. It is not likely to achieve the result you desire.

Let's be honest, the posters calling for op to bring in the cavalry are egotists who have hero complexes. They care more about having their Norma Rae moment than looking out for their nieces or nephews. Those of you who want confrontation are all about yourselves. You should reflect on this. You know confrontation will not change anything but you get to feel like some righteous hero. It's pure performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the people who say it's not OP's business, it is VERY much her business if she or her family catches whatever preventable virus this child may give them. If Grandpa catches something and has a complication and a debilitating stroke, who is going to look after him? OP and spouse?

The presence of unvaccinated family members creates complications within the family and are therefore very much everyone's problem.

Op has the right not to be around these family members. She does not have the right to force them to vaccinate their child. Op needs to decide if she is going to shut up and let them be and let their kids have a relationship or she can keep her family from that family.

Do you think she has the right to force her sil and bil to vaccinate their child?

[Anonymous]

You can't make her vaccinate your kid but you can choose not to associate with them.

My nephew was a preemie and my brother and SIL were very strict about protecting him when he was born. We all made sure we were up to date on TDAP and flu vaccines, washed hands and disinfected our phones and kept them away while holding him, and stayed away when sick. One of my sis in law's siblings refused so she didn't get to see nephew until he was old enough to have his own vaccines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did your child die from SIDS?


Hers won’t.

No connection between SIDS and vaccines. All bs.

80% of SIDS cases have been vaccinated in the past week, usually in the past 2 days.

That simply because most babies get their vaccines.

The lack of understanding of basic math and statistics is killing this world. Probably 95% of bad decisions related to health are based on ignorance of math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did your child die from SIDS?


Hers won’t.

No connection between SIDS and vaccines. All bs.

80% of SIDS cases have been vaccinated in the past week, usually in the past 2 days.

That simply because most babies get their vaccines.

Look at you, thinking anti-vaxxers understand the difference between correspondence and causation.

Generous of you, but that’s a science thing. They reject it.

They don't reject it. They were never taught it. It's an important failure in our educational system in this country. Most adults don't understand basic stats. You have to if you want to make good decisions in your life.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Whoa this thread exploded! I don't have time to respond to every comment but thank you to those who talked me down. I understand I can't control what my SIL and BIL do but it's hard not to be worried about the baby. My in laws live with them and are not in the best health so that is concerning. They have talked about moving for a variety of reasons but they are worried about the kids and who will take care of them since my in laws do most of the childcare. I don't want to go into it now because that's a whole other situation.

I removed her from my Facebook feed because she posts insane things so many times per day. I just took a look and now she is posting about dolphin water births and how dolphin sonar makes birth pain free and how the government is trying to control people's access to wild dolphins because they have secrets that they're trying to bring to humanity.

So yes, she is a crazy person and she has been for as long as I've known her so I know nothing I say will change her mind. She doesn't really talk about this stuff in person but she is active on a lot of online forums. I will stay out of it unless she asks for my opinion. I do want to have an answer prepared about why I vaccinated my daughter if it came up. I know my husband will talk to his brother about it so we'll see what happens there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Whoa this thread exploded! I don't have time to respond to every comment but thank you to those who talked me down. I understand I can't control what my SIL and BIL do but it's hard not to be worried about the baby. My in laws live with them and are not in the best health so that is concerning. They have talked about moving for a variety of reasons but they are worried about the kids and who will take care of them since my in laws do most of the childcare. I don't want to go into it now because that's a whole other situation.

I removed her from my Facebook feed because she posts insane things so many times per day. I just took a look and now she is posting about dolphin water births and how dolphin sonar makes birth pain free and how the government is trying to control people's access to wild dolphins because they have secrets that they're trying to bring to humanity.

So yes, she is a crazy person and she has been for as long as I've known her so I know nothing I say will change her mind. She doesn't really talk about this stuff in person but she is active on a lot of online forums. I will stay out of it unless she asks for my opinion. I do want to have an answer prepared about why I vaccinated my daughter if it came up. I know my husband will talk to his brother about it so we'll see what happens there.

OP again, also planning on staying in the kids' lives as much as possible even though we're in different states because they need access to non-crazy adults! We're taking the older kids for a week this summer so they can see what it's like to live in the city. I didn't think my SIL and BIL would agree to it but they did!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like she’s an intelligent person who has done her research and formed her own opinion. I don’t see how it concerns you. If you’re scared of measles then vaccinate your own kids.

Except that's not how it works 100%. The reason vaccines since we all started getting them in late 1960s/early 1970s work best is when you achieve herd immunity. For measles that is 95% vaccinated. We do that to protect kids too young to be fully vaccinated (cannot get first shot until 12 months and 2nd at 4/5years and it's likely the vaccine wanes in people over 40/50 who haven't had a booster), to protect the immunocompromised. The more people who refuse to vax when they are able to keeps this number too low and that means even some who are vaxed will get it. It happens, I've seen it. Same for Whooping Cough. I've seen a 10 yo get it (fully vaxed, just hadn't had the 11/12 yo shot because they were only 10) when it went through our community. It's nasty and the poor kid struggled for months and was hospitalized (no prior health issues). Now imagine getting it when you are a baby (those under 2 months have no vax, they get them at 2, 4, 6, 15 months and 4-5years. You are not fully vaxed until 4-5 years, and I woudlnt' want my 4 or 6 month old exposed to a case of WC if I could avoid it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't bother talking to them about it and trying to change their minds. People like this thrive on the conflict and don't care at all what you think. At all. It's sad but true. Let it play out how it plays out. I would gray rock the whole discussion, change the subject if it comes up, etc.

I'm on the other side and have had to just say to a couple of people, "I believe in childhood vaccines and you're not going to change my mind." And they are the same. You are not going to get anywhere, especially if their doctor failed at it. I knew one person who was persuaded by her doctor.

It's not your responsibility to save them.

This. It is what it is, these types of people love to argue. It's best just to minimize contact.

Hopefully the dad will take the kid on the sly to get vaccinated, or when the child turns 18 they can decide what to do. A few serious illnesses in college usually change minds.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't need a discussion in person. They are putting themselves and others at risk. I wouldn't want my kids to spend with them or theirs.