How do you know if a breeder is really a puppy mill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/dog-auction-rescue-groups-donations/

“An effort that animal rescuers began more than a decade ago to buy dogs for $5 or $10 apiece from commercial breeders has become a nationwide shadow market that today sees some rescuers, fueled by Internet fundraising, paying breeders $5,000 or more for a single dog.

The result is a river of rescue donations flowing from avowed dog saviors to the breeders, two groups that have long disparaged each other. The rescuers call many breeders heartless operators of inhumane “puppy mills” and work to ban the sale of their dogs in brick-and-mortar pet stores. The breeders call “retail rescuers” hypocritical dilettantes who hide behind nonprofit status while doing business as unregulated, online pet stores.

But for years, they have come together at dog auctions where no cameras are allowed, with rescuers enriching breeders and some breeders saying more puppies are being bred for sale to the rescuers.

Bidders affiliated with 86 rescue and advocacy groups and shelters throughout the United States and Canada have spent $2.68 million buying 5,761 dogs and puppies from breeders since 2009 at the nation’s two government-regulated dog auctions, both in Missouri, according to invoices, checks and other documents The Washington Post obtained from an industry insider.”

But even if a rescue is not doing this, they are shipping tons of irresponsibly bred pit and hound mix puppies, mostly, from the South all the time to be “adopted” up here. Once you’ve created a pipeline like that, what is the incentive for southern states to prevent the breeding of those puppies? Why would they make any policy changes?

At the same time, they’re telling people not to buy dogs from breeders. But they’re not articulating any sort of plan for how people should acquire pets if the southern states got their acts together. And the reputable breeders aren’t doing anything to help people find them, in fact they seem determined to make it as hard as possible.

Anything more recent on the topic? Or maybe you can name any of the local rescues that part of that group of 86?

I got my wonderful dog from Lucky Dog, in recent years. They had like 20 pit mix puppies outside a petsmart and they were touting their facility in SC. And listen, I like dogs! I like rescues! But it makes no sense to me to say Amish puppies are unethical but a pipeline of pit bull puppies from SC is virtuous just because one is a business and one is a non-profit, unless the non-profit sees the 20 pitbulls outside a Petsmart as a temporary, necessary, problematic stop gap on the way to a more sustainable system to generate healthy pets. But I see no evidence that they see it that way.

It seems like there are just a bunch of pit bulls who haven’t been spayed or neutered. They multiply unfettered and there’s such an oversupply, there aren’t enough buyers for that many puppies. They proliferate because their owners aren’t incentivized to prevent it from happening.

However, the Amish are breeding their dogs on purpose for a profit. Both the pit bulls owners and the Amish are responsible for unethical breeding, but the Amish would stop if they weren’t turning a profit. If people didn’t buy from Amish puppy mills, there wouldn’t be any.

This, +100
Meanwhile, rescues like Lucky dogs don't provide any incentives to unethical/irresponsible/accidental pitbull breeders, moreover they fund/promote spaying/neutering of household pets. If people stopped adopting from rescues - it would not affect actions of the stupid people who simply don't neuter their pets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

They charge a lot of money because it costs a lot of money to breed healthy animals. High quality food, veterinary care, genetic testing, the list goes on – it's very expensive.

What breed are you looking for? Have you considered a breed specific rescue group?

Most people don't feed high quality food, dogs are only pregnant two months so maybe 1-2 vet appointments... they aren't genetic testing every dog. Be real.

Sorry, actually how expensive is ‘high quality’ dog food? You’re saying a breeder selling let’s say a golden retriever for $3500 each is losing money because they’ve spent more than that on dog food and tests? Really?

Let’s say they sell 6 puppies in a two year period. That’s $21,000. Our dog food for our golden is about $100 a month so that’s $2400. They need several specific tests by specialists so that’s probably at least another couple thousand. Vet care for the pregnancy probably another thousand. Many of the dogs are now IvF through a stud — no idea what that costs! I’m sure alc fees are probably a few hundred. Plus regular vet care for the dog and boarding for dog when you travel. Minimal costs of advertising and maintained a website. So this person is maybe clearing $5K year on this project, if that.

No. Dogs are only pregnant two months. Most breeders deliver the puppies. Our dog food is no where near that much. $35 for a small bag of kibble that lasts months. Maybe $2o-30 a month max for homemade and a lot of that is cheese.

The real breeders are feeding high quality dog food. Our breeder definitely had vet visits for pregnant mom and newborn babies — not for the whelping. And although the dog is only pregnant 2 months, if you are a breeder yo keep at least the mom full time so that is part of your costs. They aren’t it making money hand over fist but it can be a nice supplemental income if you love having dogs anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

It’s not.

I researched this recently. The newer advice is that it appears to be better for a female to have annual breeding for 2-3 years then retired, rather than bred 2-3 times over a 10 year period. There are studies on this.

Map this on to humans and you see it checks out. Easier on a woman to have a 2 or 3 kids in her early 20s than to have a kid at 23, then 30, then 37.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/dog-auction-rescue-groups-donations/

“An effort that animal rescuers began more than a decade ago to buy dogs for $5 or $10 apiece from commercial breeders has become a nationwide shadow market that today sees some rescuers, fueled by Internet fundraising, paying breeders $5,000 or more for a single dog.

The result is a river of rescue donations flowing from avowed dog saviors to the breeders, two groups that have long disparaged each other. The rescuers call many breeders heartless operators of inhumane “puppy mills” and work to ban the sale of their dogs in brick-and-mortar pet stores. The breeders call “retail rescuers” hypocritical dilettantes who hide behind nonprofit status while doing business as unregulated, online pet stores.

But for years, they have come together at dog auctions where no cameras are allowed, with rescuers enriching breeders and some breeders saying more puppies are being bred for sale to the rescuers.

Bidders affiliated with 86 rescue and advocacy groups and shelters throughout the United States and Canada have spent $2.68 million buying 5,761 dogs and puppies from breeders since 2009 at the nation’s two government-regulated dog auctions, both in Missouri, according to invoices, checks and other documents The Washington Post obtained from an industry insider.”

But even if a rescue is not doing this, they are shipping tons of irresponsibly bred pit and hound mix puppies, mostly, from the South all the time to be “adopted” up here. Once you’ve created a pipeline like that, what is the incentive for southern states to prevent the breeding of those puppies? Why would they make any policy changes?

At the same time, they’re telling people not to buy dogs from breeders. But they’re not articulating any sort of plan for how people should acquire pets if the southern states got their acts together. And the reputable breeders aren’t doing anything to help people find them, in fact they seem determined to make it as hard as possible.

Anything more recent on the topic? Or maybe you can name any of the local rescues that part of that group of 86?

I got my wonderful dog from Lucky Dog, in recent years. They had like 20 pit mix puppies outside a petsmart and they were touting their facility in SC. And listen, I like dogs! I like rescues! But it makes no sense to me to say Amish puppies are unethical but a pipeline of pit bull puppies from SC is virtuous just because one is a business and one is a non-profit, unless the non-profit sees the 20 pitbulls outside a Petsmart as a temporary, necessary, problematic stop gap on the way to a more sustainable system to generate healthy pets. But I see no evidence that they see it that way.

If they sell those pitbulls it profit for them….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

They charge a lot of money because it costs a lot of money to breed healthy animals. High quality food, veterinary care, genetic testing, the list goes on – it's very expensive.

What breed are you looking for? Have you considered a breed specific rescue group?

Most people don't feed high quality food, dogs are only pregnant two months so maybe 1-2 vet appointments... they aren't genetic testing every dog. Be real.

Sorry, actually how expensive is ‘high quality’ dog food? You’re saying a breeder selling let’s say a golden retriever for $3500 each is losing money because they’ve spent more than that on dog food and tests? Really?

Let’s say they sell 6 puppies in a two year period. That’s $21,000. Our dog food for our golden is about $100 a month so that’s $2400. They need several specific tests by specialists so that’s probably at least another couple thousand. Vet care for the pregnancy probably another thousand. Many of the dogs are now IvF through a stud — no idea what that costs! I’m sure alc fees are probably a few hundred. Plus regular vet care for the dog and boarding for dog when you travel. Minimal costs of advertising and maintained a website. So this person is maybe clearing $5K year on this project, if that.

No. Dogs are only pregnant two months. Most breeders deliver the puppies. Our dog food is no where near that much. $35 for a small bag of kibble that lasts months. Maybe $2o-30 a month max for homemade and a lot of that is cheese.

The real breeders are feeding high quality dog food. Our breeder definitely had vet visits for pregnant mom and newborn babies — not for the whelping. And although the dog is only pregnant 2 months, if you are a breeder yo keep at least the mom full time so that is part of your costs. They aren’t it making money hand over fist but it can be a nice supplemental income if you love having dogs anyway.

Dog don’t go that often. Be real.

[Anonymous]

We got a personal recommendation and the breeder was registered with AKC.

We were not allowed to bring our puppy home until she was 10 weeks because the breeder said she needed that time with her mother to be socialized.

Our contract stipulated that the dog could never be turned over to a humane society. She had to be returned to the breeder if things weren't working out.

No in-line breeding- we know our dog's parents and have a certificate.

She was beautifully fit and healthy at her first vet visit.

--the bottom line, you just kind of know. If someone is willing to hand you a dog in Walmart parking lot, they are probably shady.

The only complaint is that our dog is a mini schnauzer and with much careful, selective breeding is a mini schnauzer to the max. She could take it down a notch and we would be thrilled.

[Anonymous]

So many words…and things NOT to do, barely any actual recommendations.

If you liked your breeder and found them ethical, please share!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/dog-auction-rescue-groups-donations/

“An effort that animal rescuers began more than a decade ago to buy dogs for $5 or $10 apiece from commercial breeders has become a nationwide shadow market that today sees some rescuers, fueled by Internet fundraising, paying breeders $5,000 or more for a single dog.

The result is a river of rescue donations flowing from avowed dog saviors to the breeders, two groups that have long disparaged each other. The rescuers call many breeders heartless operators of inhumane “puppy mills” and work to ban the sale of their dogs in brick-and-mortar pet stores. The breeders call “retail rescuers” hypocritical dilettantes who hide behind nonprofit status while doing business as unregulated, online pet stores.

But for years, they have come together at dog auctions where no cameras are allowed, with rescuers enriching breeders and some breeders saying more puppies are being bred for sale to the rescuers.

Bidders affiliated with 86 rescue and advocacy groups and shelters throughout the United States and Canada have spent $2.68 million buying 5,761 dogs and puppies from breeders since 2009 at the nation’s two government-regulated dog auctions, both in Missouri, according to invoices, checks and other documents The Washington Post obtained from an industry insider.”

But even if a rescue is not doing this, they are shipping tons of irresponsibly bred pit and hound mix puppies, mostly, from the South all the time to be “adopted” up here. Once you’ve created a pipeline like that, what is the incentive for southern states to prevent the breeding of those puppies? Why would they make any policy changes?

At the same time, they’re telling people not to buy dogs from breeders. But they’re not articulating any sort of plan for how people should acquire pets if the southern states got their acts together. And the reputable breeders aren’t doing anything to help people find them, in fact they seem determined to make it as hard as possible.

Anything more recent on the topic? Or maybe you can name any of the local rescues that part of that group of 86?

I got my wonderful dog from Lucky Dog, in recent years. They had like 20 pit mix puppies outside a petsmart and they were touting their facility in SC. And listen, I like dogs! I like rescues! But it makes no sense to me to say Amish puppies are unethical but a pipeline of pit bull puppies from SC is virtuous just because one is a business and one is a non-profit, unless the non-profit sees the 20 pitbulls outside a Petsmart as a temporary, necessary, problematic stop gap on the way to a more sustainable system to generate healthy pets. But I see no evidence that they see it that way.

It seems like there are just a bunch of pit bulls who haven’t been spayed or neutered. They multiply unfettered and there’s such an oversupply, there aren’t enough buyers for that many puppies. They proliferate because their owners aren’t incentivized to prevent it from happening.

However, the Amish are breeding their dogs on purpose for a profit. Both the pit bulls owners and the Amish are responsible for unethical breeding, but the Amish would stop if they weren’t turning a profit. If people didn’t buy from Amish puppy mills, there wouldn’t be any.

This, +100
Meanwhile, rescues like Lucky dogs don't provide any incentives to unethical/irresponsible/accidental pitbull breeders, moreover they fund/promote spaying/neutering of household pets. If people stopped adopting from rescues - it would not affect actions of the stupid people who simply don't neuter their pets.

But having a pipeline of pit bull puppies to the northeast relieves pressure on the southern states to deal with the problem. What’s the incentive to reduce the number of puppies when they get swept off to be family pets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/dog-auction-rescue-groups-donations/

“An effort that animal rescuers began more than a decade ago to buy dogs for $5 or $10 apiece from commercial breeders has become a nationwide shadow market that today sees some rescuers, fueled by Internet fundraising, paying breeders $5,000 or more for a single dog.

The result is a river of rescue donations flowing from avowed dog saviors to the breeders, two groups that have long disparaged each other. The rescuers call many breeders heartless operators of inhumane “puppy mills” and work to ban the sale of their dogs in brick-and-mortar pet stores. The breeders call “retail rescuers” hypocritical dilettantes who hide behind nonprofit status while doing business as unregulated, online pet stores.

But for years, they have come together at dog auctions where no cameras are allowed, with rescuers enriching breeders and some breeders saying more puppies are being bred for sale to the rescuers.

Bidders affiliated with 86 rescue and advocacy groups and shelters throughout the United States and Canada have spent $2.68 million buying 5,761 dogs and puppies from breeders since 2009 at the nation’s two government-regulated dog auctions, both in Missouri, according to invoices, checks and other documents The Washington Post obtained from an industry insider.”

But even if a rescue is not doing this, they are shipping tons of irresponsibly bred pit and hound mix puppies, mostly, from the South all the time to be “adopted” up here. Once you’ve created a pipeline like that, what is the incentive for southern states to prevent the breeding of those puppies? Why would they make any policy changes?

At the same time, they’re telling people not to buy dogs from breeders. But they’re not articulating any sort of plan for how people should acquire pets if the southern states got their acts together. And the reputable breeders aren’t doing anything to help people find them, in fact they seem determined to make it as hard as possible.

Anything more recent on the topic? Or maybe you can name any of the local rescues that part of that group of 86?

I got my wonderful dog from Lucky Dog, in recent years. They had like 20 pit mix puppies outside a petsmart and they were touting their facility in SC. And listen, I like dogs! I like rescues! But it makes no sense to me to say Amish puppies are unethical but a pipeline of pit bull puppies from SC is virtuous just because one is a business and one is a non-profit, unless the non-profit sees the 20 pitbulls outside a Petsmart as a temporary, necessary, problematic stop gap on the way to a more sustainable system to generate healthy pets. But I see no evidence that they see it that way.

It seems like there are just a bunch of pit bulls who haven’t been spayed or neutered. They multiply unfettered and there’s such an oversupply, there aren’t enough buyers for that many puppies. They proliferate because their owners aren’t incentivized to prevent it from happening.

However, the Amish are breeding their dogs on purpose for a profit. Both the pit bulls owners and the Amish are responsible for unethical breeding, but the Amish would stop if they weren’t turning a profit. If people didn’t buy from Amish puppy mills, there wouldn’t be any.

This, +100
Meanwhile, rescues like Lucky dogs don't provide any incentives to unethical/irresponsible/accidental pitbull breeders, moreover they fund/promote spaying/neutering of household pets. If people stopped adopting from rescues - it would not affect actions of the stupid people who simply don't neuter their pets.

But having a pipeline of pit bull puppies to the northeast relieves pressure on the southern states to deal with the problem. What’s the incentive to reduce the number of puppies when they get swept off to be family pets?

The south has a way to reduce the number of excess dogs, but bleeding hearts don’t like it. People from up north arranged to have the dogs shipped up here because the solution in the south was to euthanize excess dogs they couldn’t adopt out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/dog-auction-rescue-groups-donations/

“An effort that animal rescuers began more than a decade ago to buy dogs for $5 or $10 apiece from commercial breeders has become a nationwide shadow market that today sees some rescuers, fueled by Internet fundraising, paying breeders $5,000 or more for a single dog.

The result is a river of rescue donations flowing from avowed dog saviors to the breeders, two groups that have long disparaged each other. The rescuers call many breeders heartless operators of inhumane “puppy mills” and work to ban the sale of their dogs in brick-and-mortar pet stores. The breeders call “retail rescuers” hypocritical dilettantes who hide behind nonprofit status while doing business as unregulated, online pet stores.

But for years, they have come together at dog auctions where no cameras are allowed, with rescuers enriching breeders and some breeders saying more puppies are being bred for sale to the rescuers.

Bidders affiliated with 86 rescue and advocacy groups and shelters throughout the United States and Canada have spent $2.68 million buying 5,761 dogs and puppies from breeders since 2009 at the nation’s two government-regulated dog auctions, both in Missouri, according to invoices, checks and other documents The Washington Post obtained from an industry insider.”

But even if a rescue is not doing this, they are shipping tons of irresponsibly bred pit and hound mix puppies, mostly, from the South all the time to be “adopted” up here. Once you’ve created a pipeline like that, what is the incentive for southern states to prevent the breeding of those puppies? Why would they make any policy changes?

At the same time, they’re telling people not to buy dogs from breeders. But they’re not articulating any sort of plan for how people should acquire pets if the southern states got their acts together. And the reputable breeders aren’t doing anything to help people find them, in fact they seem determined to make it as hard as possible.

Anything more recent on the topic? Or maybe you can name any of the local rescues that part of that group of 86?

I got my wonderful dog from Lucky Dog, in recent years. They had like 20 pit mix puppies outside a petsmart and they were touting their facility in SC. And listen, I like dogs! I like rescues! But it makes no sense to me to say Amish puppies are unethical but a pipeline of pit bull puppies from SC is virtuous just because one is a business and one is a non-profit, unless the non-profit sees the 20 pitbulls outside a Petsmart as a temporary, necessary, problematic stop gap on the way to a more sustainable system to generate healthy pets. But I see no evidence that they see it that way.

It seems like there are just a bunch of pit bulls who haven’t been spayed or neutered. They multiply unfettered and there’s such an oversupply, there aren’t enough buyers for that many puppies. They proliferate because their owners aren’t incentivized to prevent it from happening.

However, the Amish are breeding their dogs on purpose for a profit. Both the pit bulls owners and the Amish are responsible for unethical breeding, but the Amish would stop if they weren’t turning a profit. If people didn’t buy from Amish puppy mills, there wouldn’t be any.

This, +100
Meanwhile, rescues like Lucky dogs don't provide any incentives to unethical/irresponsible/accidental pitbull breeders, moreover they fund/promote spaying/neutering of household pets. If people stopped adopting from rescues - it would not affect actions of the stupid people who simply don't neuter their pets.

But having a pipeline of pit bull puppies to the northeast relieves pressure on the southern states to deal with the problem. What’s the incentive to reduce the number of puppies when they get swept off to be family pets?

The south has a way to reduce the number of excess dogs, but bleeding hearts don’t like it. People from up north arranged to have the dogs shipped up here because the solution in the south was to euthanize excess dogs they couldn’t adopt out.

Yep, exactly. Not that I'm a bleeding heart, but I don't feel bad about being a part of that "pipeline".
Sometimes (rarely) shelter in the South don't euthanized, just keep dogs in shelters. I'm fostering one of the dogs like that after 1.5 years in shelter - 6 months is foster care, she's much better, but still shows signs poor socialization and not exactly easy to train, but we're working on it. She's not a pit btw.
Not sure what's best overall, but I know that I won't go to puppy mill/Amish/Mennonites breeders. Id either go full on with reputable breeder that charges arm and the leg for a pup ($3-4k is a going rate for the breed of my choice) or foster-fail with one of the pups eventually.

[Anonymous]

If someone is willing to sell you a dog … it’s probably a puppy mill.

And never, ever buy a doodle of any kind. It’s just a mutt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If someone is willing to sell you a dog … it’s probably a puppy mill.

And never, ever buy a doodle of any kind. It’s just a mutt.

Rescues and shelters sell the animals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many words…and things NOT to do, barely any actual recommendations.

If you liked your breeder and found them ethical, please share!

I did and it was removed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is willing to sell you a dog … it’s probably a puppy mill.

And never, ever buy a doodle of any kind. It’s just a mutt.

Rescues and shelters sell the animals.

Rescues are non profits. They charge an adoption fee that serves two purposes: recouping some of the money they’ve spent on veterinary care, dog food and other expenses, and making sure you’re a serious adopter (not buying the dog to use as bait for dog fighting, you probably have money to cover regular veterinary care). They make sure dogs are healthy, groomed, dewormed, up to date on shots, and spayed or neutered if they’re old enough. The rescue I adopted from incurred all of those expenses for my dog, plus a dental exam and cleaning. The neutering alone was more than $400. The adoption fee was only $350.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is willing to sell you a dog … it’s probably a puppy mill.

And never, ever buy a doodle of any kind. It’s just a mutt.

Rescues and shelters sell the animals.

Rescues are non profits. They charge an adoption fee that serves two purposes: recouping some of the money they’ve spent on veterinary care, dog food and other expenses, and making sure you’re a serious adopter (not buying the dog to use as bait for dog fighting, you probably have money to cover regular veterinary care). They make sure dogs are healthy, groomed, dewormed, up to date on shots, and spayed or neutered if they’re old enough. The rescue I adopted from incurred all of those expenses for my dog, plus a dental exam and cleaning. The neutering alone was more than $400. The adoption fee was only $350.

So, basically the same expenses as breeders. That is still selling them. They cherry pick dogs they know they can resell.