Student Stratification at Selective High Schools

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

What volunteer work have you done at walls that gives you such insight into the school? Honest question because I work there and there are very few volunteers.

There’s a repeat poster around here who bashes DCPS on the grounds of “volunteer work” they once did.

As with most threads on DCPS it seems to come down to the other suburban schools having fewer poor kids and college-bound kids being the majority.

Say could that repeat poster be you?

You're one of the posters who jumps on every Walls thread to reflexively deny DCPS' obvious, egregious and eminently preventable low capacity and lack of political will to challenge its highest-performing students. I call BS on the crux of the problem being suburban schools having "fewer poor kids" and "college-bound kids being the majority." What we see in DCPS is the result of more than half a century of dismal policy decisions not to prioritize learning for the strongest students, low-income, middle-income and high-income alike.

You can't possibly be the product of an urban magnet high school where most students have been low SES yet college-bound students are in the majority, make that elite college bound. Nobody educated at a NYC magnet, like my spouse and I, would post such blather.

OMG. The NYC magnet grad posts again to re-explain to us that Hunter College is better than Walls.

Yeesh. I know a kid starting at Hunter and they would likely be better off at Walls.

How are these schools even comparable? They’re in different cities. No one is moving to NYC for their kid to go to Hunter or Stuy! This is a DCPS discussion. Different city. Different families. Different kids.

Absolutely. I think my point is that higher SES Walls (or JR) families likely don’t actually want the hyper competitive and stressful environment of Hunter or TJ, so the comparison doesn’t make that much sense. There are a million ways DCPS could improve but all of this gum-flapping about Walls needing to be like TJ is absurdly wrong-headed. It’s a more interesting question to ask how DCPS does with academically talented low SES students compared to othet states, but I don’t think any PPs here are genuinely interested in that question. Except of course to come on here screaming about Banneker SAT scores being lower than Hunter when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

But same lack of ambition to enable high achieving DCPS students to succeed across the SES spectrum. If you think attending high octane magnets is too stressful for talented poor kids then consider the attendant stress of a lifetime of low SES living. DCPS could build a a sizeable low SES cohort to handle Stuyvesant, Hunter and TJ level academics at Walls via thoughtful ES and MS programming. They can’t be bothered any many of you cheer them on. Fake and paternalistic liberals deserve no plaudits. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But same lack of ambition to enable high achieving DCPS students to succeed across the SES spectrum. If you think attending high octane magnets is too stressful for talented poor kids then consider the attendant stress of a lifetime of low SES living. DCPS could build a a sizeable low SES cohort to handle Stuyvesant, Hunter and TJ level academics at Walls via thoughtful ES and MS programming. They can’t be bothered any many of you cheer them on. Fake and paternalistic liberals deserve no plaudits. Try again.

The could allow Basis to expand. No other public school in DC or has shown the ability to produce a that kid of student

[Anonymous]

Not so much ability as drive. BASIS already has permission to open a K-5 program. But BASIS is forced to admit on lottery luck, not ability or motivation. Just not all that great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not so much ability as drive. BASIS already has permission to open a K-5 program. But BASIS is forced to admit on lottery luck, not ability or motivation. Just not all that great.

If BASIS sticks to it's grading and pacing and avoid remediation classes, then it will self select over time. Sure any kid can lottery in, but what is the point when you are two grade levels behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But same lack of ambition to enable high achieving DCPS students to succeed across the SES spectrum. If you think attending high octane magnets is too stressful for talented poor kids then consider the attendant stress of a lifetime of low SES living. DCPS could build a a sizeable low SES cohort to handle Stuyvesant, Hunter and TJ level academics at Walls via thoughtful ES and MS programming. They can’t be bothered any many of you cheer them on. Fake and paternalistic liberals deserve no plaudits. Try again.

Talk about concern trolling. I believe 0.0% that you actually care about poor kids in DC. What you actually care about is airing your grievances about not living in a wealthy suburb. Well that was your choice. Nobody forced you to move here.

[Anonymous]

Not the person you're responding to but I'm going to chime in. You're dead wrong. You're the troll.

I'm a DCPS parent who didn't grow up on a wealthy white suburb. I went to Whitney Young in Chicago. I was a few years behind Michelle Obama and her brother. My dad was a postal worker and my mom cleaned houses. I went to an Ivy.

For the brightest kids who are forced to live in DC, provide the rigor and supports for our tax dollars, period. Turn Walls into a more serious magnet rather than letting it slip l ike this. Shameful.

[Anonymous]

The Bowser administration is the primary obstacle to higher achievement and competent and visionary leadership at Walls. The status quo works for her and DC lacks a school board with normal school board power. Obviously, nothing much can change until the political calculus does. In the meantime, don’t expect Walls spots for most if DC’s highest performers and supplement away if you’re aiming high in college admissions from DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Exactly. In our experience, "stratification" mostly begins and ends at home at Walls, other than odd class with an exceptionally good teacher and one or two enrollment classes.

We pay close to 5 figures/year for after-school, weekend and summer enrichment for our Walls students. What we don't do is pay for private school, at least 3X more per kid.

Our situation isn't unusual at Walls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Bowser administration is the primary obstacle to higher achievement and competent and visionary leadership at Walls. The status quo works for her and DC lacks a school board with normal school board power. Obviously, nothing much can change until the political calculus does. In the meantime, don’t expect Walls spots for most if DC’s highest performers and supplement away if you’re aiming high in college admissions from DCPS.

The political calculus won't change. If Walls was to become as high performing as the suburban magnets, then only a very few middle schools could every supply students who wouldn't be hopelessly behind. No mayor if going to want the city's magnet to exclude students from the vast majority of DCPS middle schools just because those schools have curriculums and standards aren't adequate to prepare students for rigorous high schools

[Anonymous]

This is true in the DC context but needn't be. Fact is, poor preparation across underperforming middle schools hasn't emerged as an insurmountable political obstacle to the creation of socioeconomically and racially diverse but high performing HS magnets in other East Coast cities. What NYC and Boston do is run free magnet high school exam test prep centers city wide. With the centers, if you're an ambitious and talented HS student in an underperforming middle school in those cities, and you can get yourself to test prep in your borough regularly, you can catch up. You can even have a shot at scoring high enough on the HS magnet entrance exam to get a spot. Without an entrance exam to Walls to prep for, or a standardized test score you can submit with your application, let alone taxpayer furnished test prep, poor kids generally can't compete with more affluent peers. Case in point: many colleges that went test optional during Covid have figured that that one of the best ways to help poor kids compete in admissions is to reinstate mandatory SAT or ACT scores. DCPS could follow the colleges lead in admitting that it's difficult to identify HS magnet talent without objective measures of student progress on an application. A little political bravery, pragmatism and good planning could go a long way in putting Walls on track to become as high performing as suburban magnets. The sad part, we have the students, the talent, the drive and the resources as a city to much aim higher than the Walls status quo, just not the leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Bowser administration is the primary obstacle to higher achievement and competent and visionary leadership at Walls. The status quo works for her and DC lacks a school board with normal school board power. Obviously, nothing much can change until the political calculus does. In the meantime, don’t expect Walls spots for most if DC’s highest performers and supplement away if you’re aiming high in college admissions from DCPS.

The political calculus won't change. If Walls was to become as high performing as the suburban magnets, then only a very few middle schools could every supply students who wouldn't be hopelessly behind. No mayor if going to want the city's magnet to exclude students from the vast majority of DCPS middle schools just because those schools have curriculums and standards aren't adequate to prepare students for rigorous high schools

Don't disagree...My conspiracy theory believes that if DCPS really wanted to have a G&T track that the private schools would complain and they would go out of business. It's happening in other cities. Not that far fetched....

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

What volunteer work have you done at walls that gives you such insight into the school? Honest question because I work there and there are very few volunteers.

There’s a repeat poster around here who bashes DCPS on the grounds of “volunteer work” they once did.

As with most threads on DCPS it seems to come down to the other suburban schools having fewer poor kids and college-bound kids being the majority.

Nope, you obviously have not looked at the stats. Walls only has about 6% at risk and is nowhere close the the magnet powerhouse schools in the burbs. Not by a long shot.

Walls isn’t a powerhouse magnet and I don’t think it claimed to ever be. And the people on here whining about Walls probably don’t have the type of kid to get admitted to Blair anyway so 🤷 If your kid can get into Blair go with god and enjoy MCPS.

Of course there are kids at Walls who can get into Blair. Lots of amazing kids from highly educated parents from ward 3. Same kids profile as those at Blair. These families can’t afford the high price of privates in this town and Walls is their best but suboptimal option.

People like you who make excuses and refuse to acknowledge the huge problems in this town where educational standards are not up to par for high achieving kids are part of the problem.

BTW you have really missed the point here. Walls is supposed to be the best selective school in this town and the equivalent would be a magnet in MCPS. But one thing I agree with you is yes it’s no powerhouse magnet, so far below it. So where is the equivalent educational opportunity for kids in the city? NONE

NP but why did you add Ward 3 in your otherwise pretty good comment? I know DCUM is totally biased against Walls without the test but there are amazing kids from EVERY ward in this city attending Walls.

PP here, yes I agree there are amazing kids in every ward. I said that to make a similar comparison because the profile of many of the kids in the magnet at Blair are to those of ward 3 families - highly educated families with driven kids.

It’s unbelievable that PP has convinced herself that kids in DC can’t get into Blair magnets. I suspect the reality is that her kid wouldn’t get in, and she is happy with the low standards at Walls and why her kid is doing well.

As to poor kids getting into selective and magnet high schools, the reality is that it is difficult if you don’t provide a pathway way before that. This pathway is G & T in elementary and tracking in middle school. These kids need help to build the foundation of high achieving standards early because their families are either unable to support or supplement, they are ignorant about it and don’t know, or they don’t care.

I was one of those kids growing up. I was a FARMs kid, and my parents just had no clue or idea about education, how it worked, and how to support. I was on my own, and someone saw the potential in me to put me in G & T starting in 3rd grade, moved on to the highest, most challenging courses in middle school, then honors and AP in high school. But there was no way I would have gone that route if I had grown up in DC where there are low standards across the board and there is no system to identify smart kids, especially poor smart kids early, and put them in appropriate academic programming. To do this just in high school is too late. The gap already is too wide. There is only so much that they can do to catch up with so little time left. And that is why of all the kids in the city, the ones hurt the most by low standards and expectations are the poor, smart kids whose potential are never met.

[Anonymous]

We need to get rid of Bowser. She has installed a puppet chancellor. Nothing will change with Bowser around

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

Walls students have always gone the DE route for advanced language courses. FWIW, AP Foreign Language courses frequently produce kids who can score 5s yet can't remotely speak the target language.