I’m Arab and Christian- why are people always so surprised ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many Christians of European descent realize that it's only because of Arab cultures and Arab scholars in medieval times that we have today's faith system intact.

Most people of all religions or no religions do not know that Christianity is not a white, European religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you want to feel like we’re all perplexed when we’re actually not. Maybe one person in your life was confused and now you’ve turned it into a thing.

Yeah, this. Honestly, no one cares and we don’t want to feed your odd need for attention. I know people like you seem to want to feel special for what is quite conventional.

I mean WOW. Are you really a Christian Arab? Well, I’ll be dipped in sht.

You could just as easily become an Arab Rastafarian, which would actually be much cooler.

But no, we’re all just ignorant Ameri-centric rubes.

Many people are surprised that there are Christians in the ME and Africa, historically and currently. It’s a subject that is interesting to discuss, even if you don’t have interest in it. We all suffer through threads about atheist “testimony” detailing the events that led to there belief in nothing, and no one rudely comments about being “dipped in shit” because atheists feel like discussing their belief in nothing online.

You are just a rude person with no tolerance for anyone or anything other than what directly affects you. An entire world exists outside of you and if you weren’t so busy mucking about in feces, you might learn something about it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think some people understand that Muslim countries still have pockets of Christians and sometimes up to million to a million and a half Christians.

Some of the Christians in Muslim countries come from very, very ancient sects.

The title of your post is misleading. Most Christians in the Middle East are not Arab but rather Assyrian, Copt, Armenian, Greek, Chaldean, Aramaic (Syriacs), and Phoenician (as many Lebanese Christians identify).
But you are right, they are very ancient communities. The hatred and persecution they have suffered and continue to suffer from the Arabs is wholly tragic. Pope Francis has often brought attention to this.

OP here. Christians in the Arab countries of the Middle East are Arabs! I know many Lebanese Christians who will tell me - in plain Arabic - they are not Arab, they are Pheonician. Several DNA studies have shown that both Lebanese Muslims and Christians are descendant from the Phoenicians but somehow Lebanese Christian’s want to distance themselves from the Arabs because of the common misconception than Arabs are mostly Muslim.

LOL.
I’ll take their word regarding what they are over yours. Go label someone else.

I am Coptic and I tell people my parents are Egyptian. People barely understand where Egypt is, much less what Coptic means and I’m not getting into sectarian divides with acquaintances and strangers.

You have to remember that the Lebanese went through a very traumatic sectarian war recently and many people from these other groups faced really heinous treatment from the Muslim majority and thus refuse to identify as Arabs. A lot of Coptic people refuse to identify as Arab as well but I find it somewhat silly. My parents have more in common with a Lebanese Muslim than an American baptist.

In the recent past Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan all have brutally oppressed their Christian minorities.

Please give examples. This is the second time you have alleged this and you cited it as the reason for Christian emigration. If Christians were so oppressed in that area, why did so many Armenians emigrate to the Middle East when facing persecution in Turkey?

FYI, neither Christian nor Muslim Arabs were big fans of the Ottomans; Christians were not singled out by Ottoman authorities.

In fact, Christian emigration from the Levant began in the 19th century for economic reasons. You can see this especially in the last names of prominent people from South America.

But you see it here too. For example the Sununus of New Hampshire, whom I am sure our "I've never met a Christian Arab" poster does not recognize as Arab.

Are you claiming that Middle Eastern Christians are not persecuted? This is easily disproven by anyone who can use google.

There have been incidents in Egypt and of course ISIS was crazy. But popular appeal of Islamic nationalism stuff came in reaction to the founding of Israel and loss of Arab territory (in which many Christians lived), particularly after 1967. Please cite evidence of Christian persecution before this, true persecution, not things like Muslims not being allowed to convert, which Arab Christians don't really care about.

DH is an Arab Christian, who lived in his Middle Eastern homeland the majority of his life. He and his family have never felt persecuted, nor have they ever referred to any historical instances of Christian persecution.

This is entirely false. The greatest persecution of Christians in the Middle East occurred during the Interwar Period and also coincided with the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

If you are speaking of Armenians in Turkey as part of the Middle East, I concede the point. If you are excluding the Armenians, whom, as I pointed out fled to safety living among Arabs in the Levant, I'd like to see some cites.

Are you unfamiliar with the Assyrian genocide, Hammidian massacres, and Muslim conquests?

It is literally unbelievable that someone claims Christian persecution “only really started” after the creation of Israel. Wow. Take a history class.

We were talking about this century and the last in Arab countries, not in Turkey or Persia, which is where the Assyrian genocide and Hamidian massacres took place.

A PP even referred to "recent" instances of severe oppression of Christians in specific Arab countries but has not provided cites. And the Wikipedia cite offered was all about the the Islamic State, not legitimate states.

Here you go. https://sa.usembassy.gov/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom-for-saudi-arabia/

Saudi Arabia was not one of the countries the PP named. They named the Levantine countries, Egypt and Iraq.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly op I'd be more surprised if you were Arab and homosexual. Arab and Christian, Arab and Muslim, whatever. Ever thought about being Zoroastrian, at least that's cool

Zoroastrians are Indian/pakistani or Persian. how is this DCUM- not Missouri rural mom.

it took around 400 years after the Islamic conquest of Persia until the majority of Iranians converted. There are definitely Zoroastrian Arabs. They are much rarer than Arab Christians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly op I'd be more surprised if you were Arab and homosexual. Arab and Christian, Arab and Muslim, whatever. Ever thought about being Zoroastrian, at least that's cool

Zoroastrians are Indian/pakistani or Persian. how is this DCUM- not Missouri rural mom.

it took around 400 years after the Islamic conquest of Persia until the majority of Iranians converted. There are definitely Zoroastrian Arabs. They are much rarer than Arab Christians

Earlier on in this thread I saw a reference to Zoroastrian Arabs and did some looking up. While there definitely Zoroastrian Arabs at the time of the Islamic conquests (Islam explicitly considers Zoroastrians people of the book) and a few centuries beyond, I couldn't find any references to any existing Arab Zoroastrian communities.

If you know of any links, please share!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think some people understand that Muslim countries still have pockets of Christians and sometimes up to million to a million and a half Christians.

Some of the Christians in Muslim countries come from very, very ancient sects.

The title of your post is misleading. Most Christians in the Middle East are not Arab but rather Assyrian, Copt, Armenian, Greek, Chaldean, Aramaic (Syriacs), and Phoenician (as many Lebanese Christians identify).
But you are right, they are very ancient communities. The hatred and persecution they have suffered and continue to suffer from the Arabs is wholly tragic. Pope Francis has often brought attention to this.

OP here. Christians in the Arab countries of the Middle East are Arabs! I know many Lebanese Christians who will tell me - in plain Arabic - they are not Arab, they are Pheonician. Several DNA studies have shown that both Lebanese Muslims and Christians are descendant from the Phoenicians but somehow Lebanese Christian’s want to distance themselves from the Arabs because of the common misconception than Arabs are mostly Muslim.

LOL.
I’ll take their word regarding what they are over yours. Go label someone else.

I am Coptic and I tell people my parents are Egyptian. People barely understand where Egypt is, much less what Coptic means and I’m not getting into sectarian divides with acquaintances and strangers.

You have to remember that the Lebanese went through a very traumatic sectarian war recently and many people from these other groups faced really heinous treatment from the Muslim majority and thus refuse to identify as Arabs. A lot of Coptic people refuse to identify as Arab as well but I find it somewhat silly. My parents have more in common with a Lebanese Muslim than an American baptist.

In the recent past Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan all have brutally oppressed their Christian minorities.

Please give examples. This is the second time you have alleged this and you cited it as the reason for Christian emigration. If Christians were so oppressed in that area, why did so many Armenians emigrate to the Middle East when facing persecution in Turkey?

FYI, neither Christian nor Muslim Arabs were big fans of the Ottomans; Christians were not singled out by Ottoman authorities.

In fact, Christian emigration from the Levant began in the 19th century for economic reasons. You can see this especially in the last names of prominent people from South America.

But you see it here too. For example the Sununus of New Hampshire, whom I am sure our "I've never met a Christian Arab" poster does not recognize as Arab.

Are you claiming that Middle Eastern Christians are not persecuted? This is easily disproven by anyone who can use google.

There have been incidents in Egypt and of course ISIS was crazy. But popular appeal of Islamic nationalism stuff came in reaction to the founding of Israel and loss of Arab territory (in which many Christians lived), particularly after 1967. Please cite evidence of Christian persecution before this, true persecution, not things like Muslims not being allowed to convert, which Arab Christians don't really care about.

DH is an Arab Christian, who lived in his Middle Eastern homeland the majority of his life. He and his family have never felt persecuted, nor have they ever referred to any historical instances of Christian persecution.

This is entirely false. The greatest persecution of Christians in the Middle East occurred during the Interwar Period and also coincided with the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

If you are speaking of Armenians in Turkey as part of the Middle East, I concede the point. If you are excluding the Armenians, whom, as I pointed out fled to safety living among Arabs in the Levant, I'd like to see some cites.

Are you unfamiliar with the Assyrian genocide, Hammidian massacres, and Muslim conquests?

It is literally unbelievable that someone claims Christian persecution “only really started” after the creation of Israel. Wow. Take a history class.

We were talking about this century and the last in Arab countries, not in Turkey or Persia, which is where the Assyrian genocide and Hamidian massacres took place.

A PP even referred to "recent" instances of severe oppression of Christians in specific Arab countries but has not provided cites. And the Wikipedia cite offered was all about the the Islamic State, not legitimate states.

Here you go. https://sa.usembassy.gov/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom-for-saudi-arabia/

Saudi Arabia was not one of the countries the PP named. They named the Levantine countries, Egypt and Iraq.

DP. Here’s Egypt, someone else can do the other countries. The Google machine is very easy to use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/4/8/palm-sunday-church-attacks-egypts-worst-day-of-violence

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/10/christians-egypt-unprecedented-persecution-report

Also, arbitrarily excluding Saudi Arabia based on (checks notes) nothing more than an earlier DCUM post seems a bit dishonest, wouldn’t you say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think some people understand that Muslim countries still have pockets of Christians and sometimes up to million to a million and a half Christians.

Some of the Christians in Muslim countries come from very, very ancient sects.

The title of your post is misleading. Most Christians in the Middle East are not Arab but rather Assyrian, Copt, Armenian, Greek, Chaldean, Aramaic (Syriacs), and Phoenician (as many Lebanese Christians identify).
But you are right, they are very ancient communities. The hatred and persecution they have suffered and continue to suffer from the Arabs is wholly tragic. Pope Francis has often brought attention to this.

OP here. Christians in the Arab countries of the Middle East are Arabs! I know many Lebanese Christians who will tell me - in plain Arabic - they are not Arab, they are Pheonician. Several DNA studies have shown that both Lebanese Muslims and Christians are descendant from the Phoenicians but somehow Lebanese Christian’s want to distance themselves from the Arabs because of the common misconception than Arabs are mostly Muslim.

LOL.
I’ll take their word regarding what they are over yours. Go label someone else.

I am Coptic and I tell people my parents are Egyptian. People barely understand where Egypt is, much less what Coptic means and I’m not getting into sectarian divides with acquaintances and strangers.

You have to remember that the Lebanese went through a very traumatic sectarian war recently and many people from these other groups faced really heinous treatment from the Muslim majority and thus refuse to identify as Arabs. A lot of Coptic people refuse to identify as Arab as well but I find it somewhat silly. My parents have more in common with a Lebanese Muslim than an American baptist.

In the recent past Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan all have brutally oppressed their Christian minorities.

Please give examples. This is the second time you have alleged this and you cited it as the reason for Christian emigration. If Christians were so oppressed in that area, why did so many Armenians emigrate to the Middle East when facing persecution in Turkey?

FYI, neither Christian nor Muslim Arabs were big fans of the Ottomans; Christians were not singled out by Ottoman authorities.

In fact, Christian emigration from the Levant began in the 19th century for economic reasons. You can see this especially in the last names of prominent people from South America.

But you see it here too. For example the Sununus of New Hampshire, whom I am sure our "I've never met a Christian Arab" poster does not recognize as Arab.

Are you claiming that Middle Eastern Christians are not persecuted? This is easily disproven by anyone who can use google.

There have been incidents in Egypt and of course ISIS was crazy. But popular appeal of Islamic nationalism stuff came in reaction to the founding of Israel and loss of Arab territory (in which many Christians lived), particularly after 1967. Please cite evidence of Christian persecution before this, true persecution, not things like Muslims not being allowed to convert, which Arab Christians don't really care about.

DH is an Arab Christian, who lived in his Middle Eastern homeland the majority of his life. He and his family have never felt persecuted, nor have they ever referred to any historical instances of Christian persecution.

This is entirely false. The greatest persecution of Christians in the Middle East occurred during the Interwar Period and also coincided with the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

If you are speaking of Armenians in Turkey as part of the Middle East, I concede the point. If you are excluding the Armenians, whom, as I pointed out fled to safety living among Arabs in the Levant, I'd like to see some cites.

Are you unfamiliar with the Assyrian genocide, Hammidian massacres, and Muslim conquests?

It is literally unbelievable that someone claims Christian persecution “only really started” after the creation of Israel. Wow. Take a history class.

We were talking about this century and the last in Arab countries, not in Turkey or Persia, which is where the Assyrian genocide and Hamidian massacres took place.

A PP even referred to "recent" instances of severe oppression of Christians in specific Arab countries but has not provided cites. And the Wikipedia cite offered was all about the the Islamic State, not legitimate states.

Here you go. https://sa.usembassy.gov/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom-for-saudi-arabia/

Saudi Arabia was not one of the countries the PP named. They named the Levantine countries, Egypt and Iraq.

DP. Here’s Egypt, someone else can do the other countries. The Google machine is very easy to use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/4/8/palm-sunday-church-attacks-egypts-worst-day-of-violence

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/10/christians-egypt-unprecedented-persecution-report

Also, arbitrarily excluding Saudi Arabia based on (checks notes) nothing more than an earlier DCUM post seems a bit dishonest, wouldn’t you say?

The persecution of Copts and discrimination against Coptic Orthodox Christians are historic and widespread issues in Egypt. Their treatment is indicative of the poor status of Christians in the Middle East more widely, despite the fact that the religion is native to the Middle East, and that Christianity in Egypt dates back to the Roman era. (from your wikipedia link)

I lived in Saudi Arabia and there is no religious freedom in Saudi Arabia. I worked for the United States government and was afforded protection and respect because of that status only.

Although textbooks in Saudi Arabia have moderated their extremist content since 2001, they still contain some content classified as "egregious" such as characterizing Christians and other non-Muslims as liars and are considered to promote religious hatred and intolerance towards non-Muslims,[2] while the NGO Human Rights Watch has also reported rising hate speech against Christians by Saudi leaders.

The Saudi Arabian Mutaween (Arabic: مطوعين), or Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (i.e., the religious police) prohibits the public practice of any religion other than Islam.[15] Conversion of a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy,[15] a crime punishable by death if the accused does not recant.

Christians and other non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the city of Mecca and the central district of Medina,[17] i.e. in the vicinity inside of King Faisal Road, "1st Ring Road".


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Saudi_Arabia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think some people understand that Muslim countries still have pockets of Christians and sometimes up to million to a million and a half Christians.

Some of the Christians in Muslim countries come from very, very ancient sects.

The title of your post is misleading. Most Christians in the Middle East are not Arab but rather Assyrian, Copt, Armenian, Greek, Chaldean, Aramaic (Syriacs), and Phoenician (as many Lebanese Christians identify).
But you are right, they are very ancient communities. The hatred and persecution they have suffered and continue to suffer from the Arabs is wholly tragic. Pope Francis has often brought attention to this.

OP here. Christians in the Arab countries of the Middle East are Arabs! I know many Lebanese Christians who will tell me - in plain Arabic - they are not Arab, they are Pheonician. Several DNA studies have shown that both Lebanese Muslims and Christians are descendant from the Phoenicians but somehow Lebanese Christian’s want to distance themselves from the Arabs because of the common misconception than Arabs are mostly Muslim.

LOL.
I’ll take their word regarding what they are over yours. Go label someone else.

I am Coptic and I tell people my parents are Egyptian. People barely understand where Egypt is, much less what Coptic means and I’m not getting into sectarian divides with acquaintances and strangers.

You have to remember that the Lebanese went through a very traumatic sectarian war recently and many people from these other groups faced really heinous treatment from the Muslim majority and thus refuse to identify as Arabs. A lot of Coptic people refuse to identify as Arab as well but I find it somewhat silly. My parents have more in common with a Lebanese Muslim than an American baptist.

In the recent past Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan all have brutally oppressed their Christian minorities.

Please give examples. This is the second time you have alleged this and you cited it as the reason for Christian emigration. If Christians were so oppressed in that area, why did so many Armenians emigrate to the Middle East when facing persecution in Turkey?

FYI, neither Christian nor Muslim Arabs were big fans of the Ottomans; Christians were not singled out by Ottoman authorities.

In fact, Christian emigration from the Levant began in the 19th century for economic reasons. You can see this especially in the last names of prominent people from South America.

But you see it here too. For example the Sununus of New Hampshire, whom I am sure our "I've never met a Christian Arab" poster does not recognize as Arab.

Are you claiming that Middle Eastern Christians are not persecuted? This is easily disproven by anyone who can use google.

There have been incidents in Egypt and of course ISIS was crazy. But popular appeal of Islamic nationalism stuff came in reaction to the founding of Israel and loss of Arab territory (in which many Christians lived), particularly after 1967. Please cite evidence of Christian persecution before this, true persecution, not things like Muslims not being allowed to convert, which Arab Christians don't really care about.

DH is an Arab Christian, who lived in his Middle Eastern homeland the majority of his life. He and his family have never felt persecuted, nor have they ever referred to any historical instances of Christian persecution.

This is entirely false. The greatest persecution of Christians in the Middle East occurred during the Interwar Period and also coincided with the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

If you are speaking of Armenians in Turkey as part of the Middle East, I concede the point. If you are excluding the Armenians, whom, as I pointed out fled to safety living among Arabs in the Levant, I'd like to see some cites.

Are you unfamiliar with the Assyrian genocide, Hammidian massacres, and Muslim conquests?

It is literally unbelievable that someone claims Christian persecution “only really started” after the creation of Israel. Wow. Take a history class.

We were talking about this century and the last in Arab countries, not in Turkey or Persia, which is where the Assyrian genocide and Hamidian massacres took place.

A PP even referred to "recent" instances of severe oppression of Christians in specific Arab countries but has not provided cites. And the Wikipedia cite offered was all about the the Islamic State, not legitimate states.

Here you go. https://sa.usembassy.gov/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom-for-saudi-arabia/

Saudi Arabia was not one of the countries the PP named. They named the Levantine countries, Egypt and Iraq.

DP. Here’s Egypt, someone else can do the other countries. The Google machine is very easy to use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/4/8/palm-sunday-church-attacks-egypts-worst-day-of-violence

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/10/christians-egypt-unprecedented-persecution-report

Also, arbitrarily excluding Saudi Arabia based on (checks notes) nothing more than an earlier DCUM post seems a bit dishonest, wouldn’t you say?

Not really.

Historically, the area that is Saudi Arabia was overwhelmingly pagan, which Islam made anathema. There were a few Christians here and there (mainly Nestorians) but, as the center of Islam, those few Christians disappeared very early on in Islamic history. Christians traveled through as a part of trade but most Arabian peninsula Muslims had almost no encounters with Christians until the second half of the last century. This changed with the discovery of oil, particularly after the price rose dramatically in the 1970s with the accompanying huge influx of money and foreigners eager to help spend it.

This is very different from the Levantine countries and Iraq, which for more than twenty centuries had large Christian populations up until the present time. For the most part, Christians and Muslims dwelt peacefully together, bolstered in some areas by a long-established custom, still existing today, of each Muslim and Christian tribe having a tribe of the other religion as their sole tribal ally.

[Anonymous]

Many Lebanese Christians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get that the large majority of Arabs are Muslim .. but he was Jesus of Nazareth, not Jesus of New Jersey!

Most Americans are quite ignorant of everything not right there in their noses.

Zero capability, genetic perhaps, to understand world history or abstract thinking.

[Anonymous]

Because it does not matter to their day to day lives. Why do most Chinese assume all white Americans are bible carrying Christians? Why do Arabs assume all East Asians are Chinese people proficient in kung fu? Because these details are totally irrelevant to their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that the large majority of Arabs are Muslim .. but he was Jesus of Nazareth, not Jesus of New Jersey!

Most Americans are quite ignorant of everything not right there in their noses.

Zero capability, genetic perhaps, to understand world history or abstract thinking.

Ok, you’re gonna have to prove your superior intelligence by explaining the genetic component among a nation of diverse immigrants, lol

Also, “under” their noses not “in,” lol again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that the large majority of Arabs are Muslim .. but he was Jesus of Nazareth, not Jesus of New Jersey!

Most Americans are quite ignorant of everything not right there in their noses.

Zero capability, genetic perhaps, to understand world history or abstract thinking.

Ok, you’re gonna have to prove your superior intelligence by explaining the genetic component among a nation of diverse immigrants, lol

Also, “under” their noses not “in,” lol again

That bolded comment was clearly sarcastic; forgot that some Americans lack any sense of humor -- genetic perhaps?

Oh, and I'm very impressed how you couldn't even invent your own language -- -- genetic perhaps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that the large majority of Arabs are Muslim .. but he was Jesus of Nazareth, not Jesus of New Jersey!

Most Americans are quite ignorant of everything not right there in their noses.

Zero capability, genetic perhaps, to understand world history or abstract thinking.

Citation? Where is the data that Americans are more ignorant than other nationalities? Are you an American or from another country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because it does not matter to their day to day lives. Why do most Chinese assume all white Americans are bible carrying Christians? Why do Arabs assume all East Asians are Chinese people proficient in kung fu? Because these details are totally irrelevant to their lives.

+1. So sick of the idea that Americans are uniquely stupid — if it doesn’t come up in daily life, most human beings don’t care. For example, most Europeans know foreign language because they are in comparatively small countries surrounded by other comparatively small countries with different languages. It’s not some higher moral virtue that prompts Europeans to be “worldly” relative to Americans. It’s just the difference in daily reality.