how does BASIS work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading the other BASIS thread, I think I'm confused.

Unlike Walls and other application schools, admissions is based only on outcomes to the 5th grade lottery, right?

I always assumed the rigor was just a reputational thing and most kids wouldn't apply if the idea of 90min-3hrs of homework was totally unappealing.

But, do they actually weed out in ways beyond pressuring kids by making them feel unsupported? (Someone mentioned comps?) I have a pretty academically average -- and sometimes not very focused -- but very stem interested 4th grader in another charter school who wanted to consider the school but now am wondering if we skip it altogether?

BASIS parent here. Students being weeded out is fake news, just an urban myth. The school is open for everyone. It is rigorous no matter what the crazies say. It is a perfect fit for some but not for others. There is no social promotion. The amount of homework is another myth. Many students start in class or study hall and have maybe an hour each night in MS. When it is pre-comps and comps it goes up to 2 hours a night, just depends on your student and how efficient they are. Go on a tour. Ask more questions. Let your 4th grader shadow a current student.

Fake news? Urban myth? While it's true that v. few hard-working BASIS DC students are weeded out, it's untrue that none ever are.

Come on. BASIS isn't a perfect fit for any young person or family. No, it's a school offering that you might be able to make the best of for one of several reasons, or some combination. The reasons are as follows: you don't want to move to the burbs or Upper NW, you can't afford a DC private and/or you don't like private cocoon environments. By all means, go on a tour, take a hard look at the dark music and art rooms, search for the media center, look for the windows in the cafeteria and the basketball court on the roof and any space flooded with natural light. Ask yourself if you can do better by your children. Talk to the young admins, try to figure out if you can handle doing just as you're told by these folks for years to come, if you can believe in them and their vision for your family. If you can, by all means, revel in the place from the first minute. Just don't kid yourself about the prospect of a perfect fit. That's Sidwell, with 16 National Merit Scholarship Semi-finalists last year to BASIS' zero.

Give me a break. No school is a perfect fit for everyone. Not even Sidwell.

I don't know why BASIS threads attract the insecure in this way. If BASIS doesn't work for you, then don't send your kid there! But why you feel the need to sit here and convince yourself that other parents aren't looking and asking themselves these questions and coming to a different conclusion is truly puzzling.

We all respond this way because the Basis boosters act so exclusive with their no transfer rule, their hyper-acceleration, etc. BUT then any objective measure fails to demonstrate anything of note. It doesn't produce NMSFs, it's average SAT score is mediocre relative to the top privates or suburban magnets, it's grads are completely shut out of the Ivies, etc. Hey, if Basis was churning out NMSFs and Harvard admits at a same clip as TJ or Stuy I think we'd all shut up.
I have never criticized either of those places.

It's a just over mediocre school that thinks it's super special.

Yup this. Its a combination of the overhyped false advertising by the admin, and the Basis parents who come here and try to claim, with a clear sense of superiority, that only kids who "can't cut" the rigorous academics somehow would not choose Basis.

But that's just not true. Lots of high achieving parents are actively not choosing it for their kids because it's doing something (or many things) wrong.

We are high rigor people -- NMSF parents, math and science Olympiad alums, with smart kids. We would send our kids to TJ or Stuyvesant or Boston Latin in a heartbeat. We were intrigued when we heard about Basis, but after visiting and talking to (mostly former) Basis parents (some of whom vehemently said "NEVER send your children there") I just get there feeling that they are totally misrepresenting their school, and putting a whole lot of pressure on kids for no clear payoff.

Unfortunately, the data prove you wrong, and you just sound like a bloviating braggart ("We are high rigor people..." lol).

In just over 10 years, the school is ranked the #1 public middle school in DC, #1 charter school, and #1 non-selective public school in DC.

You are comparing Basis to TJ, Stuyvesant, or Boston Latin. No one in DC can send their kids to TJ, Stuyvesant, or Boston Latin. Stop creating a strawman. You just sound dumb and certainly not "high rigor."

There are plenty of happy parents and students at Basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's an issue with student quality, either. Instead, it's more about financial means. A lot of people who choose Basis over a top notch private are doing so because they can't afford the top private. The same people are not applying to ivies, because they already know that they cannot easily afford to send their kids. Basis seems to do well with getting a lot of merit aid for kids at T50 type schools, which still means that the school has a lot of top notch kids.

Bunk. UMC BASIS families in the "fi aid doughnut" are applying to Ivies/Ivies Plus schools for top students. The kids are applying but almost never getting in. Franchise leaders and admins are behind the times, mainly in failing to support and encouraging the students to run with unique interests, backgrounds and talents. For example, many 5th graders come in from ES language immersion programs strong in languages. The message from BASIS is who cares, not us, no language for you before 8th and then only at the beginning level. These are kids who could ace AP language exams in 9th or 10th grade with a little bit of support from BASIS, or even just a little flexibility on language study, but none is forthcoming. Also, BASIS forces all students to take algebra no later than 7th, when many of the kids aren't quite ready for it despite being v. bright and hard-working. Some of these kids wind up doing MS again in HS. That's what happened to my Walls student, who always earned As in BASIS math (essentially by memorizing answers). The lack of flexibility just isn't working v. well in elite college admissions.

This is really interesting. My kid is at top 3 DC private with two Basis kids who were accelerated in math (putting them on track for pre-calc in 9th) and yet aren't doing well in math at the private (struggling to get low Bs). Basis math seems to be a mile wide and an inch deep. Kids who are truly gifted in math and are doing math in their free time will compensate for this but others just have a crappy foundation and either struggle or take classes again (the Walls kid above and others we know).

This is really interesting. My kid is at BASIS in advanced math and did a summer program with numerous kids from top DC area privates. Those kids were strugging and didn't seem to know basis concepts. Private school math in the DMV area seems to be cr*p.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's an issue with student quality, either. Instead, it's more about financial means. A lot of people who choose Basis over a top notch private are doing so because they can't afford the top private. The same people are not applying to ivies, because they already know that they cannot easily afford to send their kids. Basis seems to do well with getting a lot of merit aid for kids at T50 type schools, which still means that the school has a lot of top notch kids.

Bunk. UMC BASIS families in the "fi aid doughnut" are applying to Ivies/Ivies Plus schools for top students. The kids are applying but almost never getting in. Franchise leaders and admins are behind the times, mainly in failing to support and encouraging the students to run with unique interests, backgrounds and talents. For example, many 5th graders come in from ES language immersion programs strong in languages. The message from BASIS is who cares, not us, no language for you before 8th and then only at the beginning level. These are kids who could ace AP language exams in 9th or 10th grade with a little bit of support from BASIS, or even just a little flexibility on language study, but none is forthcoming. Also, BASIS forces all students to take algebra no later than 7th, when many of the kids aren't quite ready for it despite being v. bright and hard-working. Some of these kids wind up doing MS again in HS. That's what happened to my Walls student, who always earned As in BASIS math (essentially by memorizing answers). The lack of flexibility just isn't working v. well in elite college admissions.

This is really interesting. My kid is at top 3 DC private with two Basis kids who were accelerated in math (putting them on track for pre-calc in 9th) and yet aren't doing well in math at the private (struggling to get low Bs). Basis math seems to be a mile wide and an inch deep. Kids who are truly gifted in math and are doing math in their free time will compensate for this but others just have a crappy foundation and either struggle or take classes again (the Walls kid above and others we know).

This is really interesting. My kid is at BASIS in advanced math and did a summer program with numerous kids from top DC area privates. Those kids were strugging and didn't seem to know basis concepts. Private school math in the DMV area seems to be cr*p.

Don't believe you for a minute. Name the school and the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's an issue with student quality, either. Instead, it's more about financial means. A lot of people who choose Basis over a top notch private are doing so because they can't afford the top private. The same people are not applying to ivies, because they already know that they cannot easily afford to send their kids. Basis seems to do well with getting a lot of merit aid for kids at T50 type schools, which still means that the school has a lot of top notch kids.

Bunk. UMC BASIS families in the "fi aid doughnut" are applying to Ivies/Ivies Plus schools for top students. The kids are applying but almost never getting in. Franchise leaders and admins are behind the times, mainly in failing to support and encouraging the students to run with unique interests, backgrounds and talents. For example, many 5th graders come in from ES language immersion programs strong in languages. The message from BASIS is who cares, not us, no language for you before 8th and then only at the beginning level. These are kids who could ace AP language exams in 9th or 10th grade with a little bit of support from BASIS, or even just a little flexibility on language study, but none is forthcoming. Also, BASIS forces all students to take algebra no later than 7th, when many of the kids aren't quite ready for it despite being v. bright and hard-working. Some of these kids wind up doing MS again in HS. That's what happened to my Walls student, who always earned As in BASIS math (essentially by memorizing answers). The lack of flexibility just isn't working v. well in elite college admissions.

This is really interesting. My kid is at top 3 DC private with two Basis kids who were accelerated in math (putting them on track for pre-calc in 9th) and yet aren't doing well in math at the private (struggling to get low Bs). Basis math seems to be a mile wide and an inch deep. Kids who are truly gifted in math and are doing math in their free time will compensate for this but others just have a crappy foundation and either struggle or take classes again (the Walls kid above and others we know).

This is really interesting. My kid is at BASIS in advanced math and did a summer program with numerous kids from top DC area privates. Those kids were strugging and didn't seem to know basis concepts. Private school math in the DMV area seems to be cr*p.

If Basis math instruction is so fabulous why can't any Basis kids do PSAT math? it's BASIC algebra and geometry concepts.

Waiting patiently for your reply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's an issue with student quality, either. Instead, it's more about financial means. A lot of people who choose Basis over a top notch private are doing so because they can't afford the top private. The same people are not applying to ivies, because they already know that they cannot easily afford to send their kids. Basis seems to do well with getting a lot of merit aid for kids at T50 type schools, which still means that the school has a lot of top notch kids.

Bunk. UMC BASIS families in the "fi aid doughnut" are applying to Ivies/Ivies Plus schools for top students. The kids are applying but almost never getting in. Franchise leaders and admins are behind the times, mainly in failing to support and encouraging the students to run with unique interests, backgrounds and talents. For example, many 5th graders come in from ES language immersion programs strong in languages. The message from BASIS is who cares, not us, no language for you before 8th and then only at the beginning level. These are kids who could ace AP language exams in 9th or 10th grade with a little bit of support from BASIS, or even just a little flexibility on language study, but none is forthcoming. Also, BASIS forces all students to take algebra no later than 7th, when many of the kids aren't quite ready for it despite being v. bright and hard-working. Some of these kids wind up doing MS again in HS. That's what happened to my Walls student, who always earned As in BASIS math (essentially by memorizing answers). The lack of flexibility just isn't working v. well in elite college admissions.

This is really interesting. My kid is at top 3 DC private with two Basis kids who were accelerated in math (putting them on track for pre-calc in 9th) and yet aren't doing well in math at the private (struggling to get low Bs). Basis math seems to be a mile wide and an inch deep. Kids who are truly gifted in math and are doing math in their free time will compensate for this but others just have a crappy foundation and either struggle or take classes again (the Walls kid above and others we know).

This is really interesting. My kid is at BASIS in advanced math and did a summer program with numerous kids from top DC area privates. Those kids were strugging and didn't seem to know basis concepts. Private school math in the DMV area seems to be cr*p.

If Basis math instruction is so fabulous why can't any Basis kids do PSAT math? it's BASIC algebra and geometry concepts.

Waiting patiently for your reply.

DP. Why do you assume that they can't do PSAT math? NSMF scores are 2 * the language arts score + the math score, making the selection pretty heavily tilted toward kids stronger in reading. In DC, the selection index is very high, meaning that kids who earn perfect scores in math, but only 98th percentile in the language arts sections are not going to make the cut.

[Anonymous]

Oh so you're saying that Basis math is strong but the English sucks so that's why Basic kids don't score well on the PSAT? Got it.

I can't keep up with these mental gymnastics. 🤪

[Anonymous]

And yet somehow the kids at Thomas Jefferson and Blair and Sidwell and Walls manage to figure out those PSAT reading passages just fine... and ace the math section.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh so you're saying that Basis math is strong but the English sucks so that's why Basic kids don't score well on the PSAT? Got it.

I can't keep up with these mental gymnastics. 🤪

No. I'm saying that the cutoff is quite high in the DC area, so it's very difficult for anyone to make NMSF. It's supposed to be the top 0.5% in each state, but DC has one of the highest cutoff scores in the country. It is likely that the Basis kids are failing to make NMSF because their language arts scores are weaker but their math scores would be in range. This should not be surprising, since the kids who are very strong in LA are likely to leave Basis for private or Walls in high school, since those would likely have stronger LA programs.

The PSAT scores also are less a reflection of how well the school is teaching and more a reflection of how strong the individual students are. If Walls has a lot of NMSF, but Basis has none, it just means that the 99.5th percentile kids are choosing Walls over Basis.

Only in dcum-land would people act as if not being in the top one-half of a percent means that the kids suck at English or don't score well on the PSAT. Those 97th-99.4th percentile kids are such underachieving morons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet somehow the kids at Thomas Jefferson and Blair and Sidwell and Walls manage to figure out those PSAT reading passages just fine... and ace the math section.

Just noting that DC’s cutoff for NMS is tied to the highest state’s cutoff, so not really correct to compare DC kids to VA or MD (unless those states happened to have the highest cutoff that year).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet somehow the kids at Thomas Jefferson and Blair and Sidwell and Walls manage to figure out those PSAT reading passages just fine... and ace the math section.

All of those schools get to handpick the kids they want from a broad group of highly qualified kids. Basis uses an open lottery. The TJ class of 2024 was selected using the old system, which specifically picked kids based on standardized test taking. None of this is the Basis-own that you seem to think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet somehow the kids at Thomas Jefferson and Blair and Sidwell and Walls manage to figure out those PSAT reading passages just fine... and ace the math section.

The NMSF cut off in VA is shockingly low compared to DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet somehow the kids at Thomas Jefferson and Blair and Sidwell and Walls manage to figure out those PSAT reading passages just fine... and ace the math section.

Just noting that DC’s cutoff for NMS is tied to the highest state’s cutoff, so not really correct to compare DC kids to VA or MD (unless those states happened to have the highest cutoff that year).

I could be wrong, but NMS slots are also allocated based on where the kid attends school and not where the kid lives. So, top VA and MD kids who are attending private school within DC are taking up a lot of the DC NMSF slots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet somehow the kids at Thomas Jefferson and Blair and Sidwell and Walls manage to figure out those PSAT reading passages just fine... and ace the math section.

Just noting that DC’s cutoff for NMS is tied to the highest state’s cutoff, so not really correct to compare DC kids to VA or MD (unless those states happened to have the highest cutoff that year).

I could be wrong, but NMS slots are also allocated based on where the kid attends school and not where the kid lives. So, top VA and MD kids who are attending private school within DC are taking up a lot of the DC NMSF slots.

I think DC operates differently than the states. Anyone who scores at the New Jersey cutoff score qualifies, so not really taking up spots. But yes, those kids could be from out of state.

This is some random test prep company, but seems informed: https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet somehow the kids at Thomas Jefferson and Blair and Sidwell and Walls manage to figure out those PSAT reading passages just fine... and ace the math section.

Just noting that DC’s cutoff for NMS is tied to the highest state’s cutoff, so not really correct to compare DC kids to VA or MD (unless those states happened to have the highest cutoff that year).

I could be wrong, but NMS slots are also allocated based on where the kid attends school and not where the kid lives. So, top VA and MD kids who are attending private school within DC are taking up a lot of the DC NMSF slots.

I think DC operates differently than the states. Anyone who scores at the New Jersey cutoff score qualifies, so not really taking up spots. But yes, those kids could be from out of state.

This is some random test prep company, but seems informed: https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/

It does operate differently, but if they weren't including the large number of out of state private school kids in the DC total, would they need to tie the DC cutoff to the highest cutoff in any state? If the DC NMSF had the same 0.5% allotment that other states have, but if it were restricted only to DC residents, would the cutoff end up being lower than 223?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet somehow the kids at Thomas Jefferson and Blair and Sidwell and Walls manage to figure out those PSAT reading passages just fine... and ace the math section.

Just noting that DC’s cutoff for NMS is tied to the highest state’s cutoff, so not really correct to compare DC kids to VA or MD (unless those states happened to have the highest cutoff that year).

I could be wrong, but NMS slots are also allocated based on where the kid attends school and not where the kid lives. So, top VA and MD kids who are attending private school within DC are taking up a lot of the DC NMSF slots.

I think DC operates differently than the states. Anyone who scores at the New Jersey cutoff score qualifies, so not really taking up spots. But yes, those kids could be from out of state.

This is some random test prep company, but seems informed: https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/

It does operate differently, but if they weren't including the large number of out of state private school kids in the DC total, would they need to tie the DC cutoff to the highest cutoff in any state? If the DC NMSF had the same 0.5% allotment that other states have, but if it were restricted only to DC residents, would the cutoff end up being lower than 223?

I just went down a rabbit hole. Semifinalists are allocated proportionally to the 50 states (proportion of graduating seniors). Then they separately consider DC, territories, foreign schools with American students and boarding schools. The scholarship doesn’t say what “separately consider” means, but I’ve seen a couple of places this sets the cutoff at the highest state.