Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge cultural chasm here. America does not have the same testing traditions you find in just about every other country in the world. Americans believe in never quitting more than they believe in winning. That's why footbalk teams that lose hard fought games get celebrated almost as though they won.

The difference is every other country in the world has clear rule and transparency.

Another difference is that America rewards persistence. Many other countries give you just one chance to measure up in life. Not so in the USA.

Test measures persistence. It's for 12 years of persistent education
Also they do reward persistence with sort of GPA together with Test

I don't care if you do GPA only Test only GPA + Test, GPA + Test + whatever.

The important thing is clear rule and transparency.

This is gibberish…please, figure out how to write clearly and then try again. Maybe load it into chatgpt and have it produce something intelligible.

Why you don't like clear rule and transparency?

I like clear rules and transparency…to what you are referring, I have no idea.

Ok good.

This conversation is going nowhere…much like your post. I may very well agree with you, but you posted something nonsensical.

It's ok if you didn't understand something. I'm sure there are others who understood it.
Important point was you agreed that clear rule and transparency is important.
Current US system significantly lacks those.

DP. Nope. I agree w/ your critic(s). It was pretty nonsensical. it didn't make sense content-wise as there are vague aspects, and the grammar issues interfered with any intended communication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge cultural chasm here. America does not have the same testing traditions you find in just about every other country in the world. Americans believe in never quitting more than they believe in winning. That's why footbalk teams that lose hard fought games get celebrated almost as though they won.

The difference is every other country in the world has clear rule and transparency.

Another difference is that America rewards persistence. Many other countries give you just one chance to measure up in life. Not so in the USA.

Test measures persistence. It's for 12 years of persistent education
Also they do reward persistence with sort of GPA together with Test

I don't care if you do GPA only Test only GPA + Test, GPA + Test + whatever.

The important thing is clear rule and transparency.

the only thing you are asking for is how much was spent on making sure those scores were achieved. that's it. and not an amount, a percentage of income. if a 400k family spends 40k and an 80k family spends 8k its the same type of leg up, it is.
I am so tired of test prep being a replacement for intelligence and capability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge cultural chasm here. America does not have the same testing traditions you find in just about every other country in the world. Americans believe in never quitting more than they believe in winning. That's why footbalk teams that lose hard fought games get celebrated almost as though they won.

The difference is every other country in the world has clear rule and transparency.

Another difference is that America rewards persistence. Many other countries give you just one chance to measure up in life. Not so in the USA.

Test measures persistence. It's for 12 years of persistent education
Also they do reward persistence with sort of GPA together with Test

I don't care if you do GPA only Test only GPA + Test, GPA + Test + whatever.

The important thing is clear rule and transparency.

the only thing you are asking for is how much was spent on making sure those scores were achieved. that's it. and not an amount, a percentage of income. if a 400k family spends 40k and an 80k family spends 8k its the same type of leg up, it is.
I am so tired of test prep being a replacement for intelligence and capability.

So how do you suggest intelligence and capability be assessed in an objective transparent and non-discriminatory way?

And assuming such a measure procedure exists (and without using any testing), do you still agree that the color of he student's skin should impact the assessment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge cultural chasm here. America does not have the same testing traditions you find in just about every other country in the world. Americans believe in never quitting more than they believe in winning. That's why footbalk teams that lose hard fought games get celebrated almost as though they won.

The difference is every other country in the world has clear rule and transparency.

Another difference is that America rewards persistence. Many other countries give you just one chance to measure up in life. Not so in the USA.

Test measures persistence. It's for 12 years of persistent education
Also they do reward persistence with sort of GPA together with Test

I don't care if you do GPA only Test only GPA + Test, GPA + Test + whatever.

The important thing is clear rule and transparency.

the only thing you are asking for is how much was spent on making sure those scores were achieved. that's it. and not an amount, a percentage of income. if a 400k family spends 40k and an 80k family spends 8k its the same type of leg up, it is.
I am so tired of test prep being a replacement for intelligence and capability.

Same for GPA, ECs, Essay, etc.
I think test score is at least most objective and fair, so that disadvantaged intelligent and capable students get chance to compete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This case is going nowhere. Those stats are run of the mill at those schools, regardless of ethnicity.

However 1450 kids get accepted with certain skin color or rich parents over 1590 kid because.... courage, kindness, and likability?

1450 is still 99th percentile. There's essentially no difference in their test-taking ability from someone with 1590. If all else was equal and the 1450 was significantly more courageous, kind and likeable, I'm not sure why you wouldn't choose them regardless of skin color.

I think the difference is big between 1450 and 1590. 1450 might be 99th percentile, but it's not good enough especially for those elite schools.
Now 1590 is what? like 99.99 percentile? Now we are talking.
We all know that courage, kindness, and likability score is bullshit.

Seriously? You're going to quibble over the difference between the 99.0th percentile and the 99.9th percentile? I'm guessing you're in no more than the 98.7th percentile in intelligence if you believe that's a difference that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge cultural chasm here. America does not have the same testing traditions you find in just about every other country in the world. Americans believe in never quitting more than they believe in winning. That's why footbalk teams that lose hard fought games get celebrated almost as though they won.

The difference is every other country in the world has clear rule and transparency.

Another difference is that America rewards persistence. Many other countries give you just one chance to measure up in life. Not so in the USA.

Test measures persistence. It's for 12 years of persistent education
Also they do reward persistence with sort of GPA together with Test

I don't care if you do GPA only Test only GPA + Test, GPA + Test + whatever.

The important thing is clear rule and transparency.

the only thing you are asking for is how much was spent on making sure those scores were achieved. that's it. and not an amount, a percentage of income. if a 400k family spends 40k and an 80k family spends 8k its the same type of leg up, it is.
I am so tired of test prep being a replacement for intelligence and capability.

Same for GPA, ECs, Essay, etc.
I think test score is at least most objective and fair, so that disadvantaged intelligent and capable students get chance to compete.

Standardized testing has racist origins in the U S (and was used to justify segregation in the military and schools)., is culturally biased ( "pre test" questions that were answered correctly by most blacks were thrown out), and today is more a reflection of household income , test prep, and superscoriing.

Not even close to objective.

Most of the 1,900 colleges that are now test optional will remain after the AA ruling.

Good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This kid seems insufferable, but I kind of feel badly for him.

He has great scores and he should be very proud of himself, but if folks in his life were telling him that he was a shoo-in for an Ivy League college, then he was getting bad advice.

Very very few people can be assured of spots in the Ivy League. Kids of major (MAJOR) donors are one, kids who have won significant national prizes (ISEF Top Prize Winners) are another. But a kid with good test scores and grades? That's a crapshoot.

Similarly, whoever told him to put this out there into the world was doing him a disservice because the coverage has focused on how at least one of the schools he was rejected from doesn't use race-based admissions at all.

No this is not true. Private school, an African American student with a 1590 and a 4+ GPA is a shoo in one of the top 5 colleges. A South Asian or an Asian-it is a waste to even try unless you have a national level EC/awards. I am not saying right/wrong but it is ridiculous to not acknowledge that race based admissions is VERY much in action.

I thought my black kid was a shoo in for Berkeley with a 4.0 in the most rigorous courses (AP calc BC, and AP Physics C) but did not get into Berkeley. Albeit DC was OOS but still. DC got 34 on ACT but this wasn’t submitted.

Why wouldn't you submit that ACT score? It's pretty darn good for the profile. They might've assumed that your kid didn't do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge cultural chasm here. America does not have the same testing traditions you find in just about every other country in the world. Americans believe in never quitting more than they believe in winning. That's why footbalk teams that lose hard fought games get celebrated almost as though they won.

The difference is every other country in the world has clear rule and transparency.

Another difference is that America rewards persistence. Many other countries give you just one chance to measure up in life. Not so in the USA.

Test measures persistence. It's for 12 years of persistent education
Also they do reward persistence with sort of GPA together with Test

I don't care if you do GPA only Test only GPA + Test, GPA + Test + whatever.

The important thing is clear rule and transparency.

No, for the millionth time, there will never be "clear rule and transparency". You believe a 4.0 and 1600 is the best indicator. Most colleges do NOT. They want a certain threshold (1400/1450+ and great GPA) and then they want to actually look at the individual---so they might see some value in a kid who dances or a kid who is an advanced musician who taught inner city kids violin lessons in their spare time. They are looking for an overall well rounded individual---you think academics is the only thing. These other traits are NOT always easily measured/quantified with checkboxes on a list. And that is what bothers you, that there is no magic formula you can strive to complete. In reality, someone who belongs at an elite university gets this and naturally has done 95% of their activities because they like them and are self driven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This case is going nowhere. Those stats are run of the mill at those schools, regardless of ethnicity.

However 1450 kids get accepted with certain skin color or rich parents over 1590 kid because.... courage, kindness, and likability?

1450 is still 99th percentile. There's essentially no difference in their test-taking ability from someone with 1590. If all else was equal and the 1450 was significantly more courageous, kind and likeable, I'm not sure why you wouldn't choose them regardless of skin color.

I think the difference is big between 1450 and 1590. 1450 might be 99th percentile, but it's not good enough especially for those elite schools.
Now 1590 is what? like 99.99 percentile? Now we are talking.
We all know that courage, kindness, and likability score is bullshit.

Seriously? You're going to quibble over the difference between the 99.0th percentile and the 99.9th percentile? I'm guessing you're in no more than the 98.7th percentile in intelligence if you believe that's a difference that matters.

Isn't is significant difference between 1 out of 100 (99.0th percentile) vs 1 out of 1000 (99.9th percentile)?????????????????????????????????????????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This kid seems insufferable, but I kind of feel badly for him.

He has great scores and he should be very proud of himself, but if folks in his life were telling him that he was a shoo-in for an Ivy League college, then he was getting bad advice.

Very very few people can be assured of spots in the Ivy League. Kids of major (MAJOR) donors are one, kids who have won significant national prizes (ISEF Top Prize Winners) are another. But a kid with good test scores and grades? That's a crapshoot.

Similarly, whoever told him to put this out there into the world was doing him a disservice because the coverage has focused on how at least one of the schools he was rejected from doesn't use race-based admissions at all.

No this is not true. Private school, an African American student with a 1590 and a 4+ GPA is a shoo in one of the top 5 colleges. A South Asian or an Asian-it is a waste to even try unless you have a national level EC/awards. I am not saying right/wrong but it is ridiculous to not acknowledge that race based admissions is VERY much in action.

I thought my black kid was a shoo in for Berkeley with a 4.0 in the most rigorous courses (AP calc BC, and AP Physics C) but did not get into Berkeley. Albeit DC was OOS but still. DC got 34 on ACT but this wasn’t submitted.

Why wouldn't you submit that ACT score? It's pretty darn good for the profile. They might've assumed that your kid didn't do well.

Berkeley is test blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This case is going nowhere. Those stats are run of the mill at those schools, regardless of ethnicity.

However 1450 kids get accepted with certain skin color or rich parents over 1590 kid because.... courage, kindness, and likability?

And that's OK. Really. It is. Stop viewing elite college as some brass ring that can only be obtained by students with the very best stats. Especially when Georgia Tech is pretty elite.

No, it's not OK.
You can view elite colleges however you like.
Don't force your view upon others.
We need transparent and fair system.

No we don’t. Elite college is not some public good to which you are entitled an equal shot of attending.

Then I don't want a dime of my tax dollar to go to those institutions if they discriminate and are not transparent

Well I can say I don't want my tax dollars going for roads in Alabama, yet they do (for example). I don't get to select everything my tax dollars are used for. I pay them for the good of society.
FYI---majority of the "elite institutions" you are scrambling to get into are private institutions, so they can do whatever the hell they want for admissions. State schools have to abide a bit more by their states rules/regulations. And finally, schools picking anyone over your kid does NOT mean they are discriminating----they are saying "NO" to almost 95% of those who apply, so it's not discrimination if everyone is largely getting told NO. You just do not like that your kid is not at an elite school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This case is going nowhere. Those stats are run of the mill at those schools, regardless of ethnicity.

However 1450 kids get accepted with certain skin color or rich parents over 1590 kid because.... courage, kindness, and likability?

1450 is still 99th percentile. There's essentially no difference in their test-taking ability from someone with 1590. If all else was equal and the 1450 was significantly more courageous, kind and likeable, I'm not sure why you wouldn't choose them regardless of skin color.

I think the difference is big between 1450 and 1590. 1450 might be 99th percentile, but it's not good enough especially for those elite schools.
Now 1590 is what? like 99.99 percentile? Now we are talking.
We all know that courage, kindness, and likability score is bullshit.

Seriously? You're going to quibble over the difference between the 99.0th percentile and the 99.9th percentile? I'm guessing you're in no more than the 98.7th percentile in intelligence if you believe that's a difference that matters.

Isn't is significant difference between 1 out of 100 (99.0th percentile) vs 1 out of 1000 (99.9th percentile)?????????????????????????????????????????

No?????????????????????????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This case is going nowhere. Those stats are run of the mill at those schools, regardless of ethnicity.

However 1450 kids get accepted with certain skin color or rich parents over 1590 kid because.... courage, kindness, and likability?

And that's OK. Really. It is. Stop viewing elite college as some brass ring that can only be obtained by students with the very best stats. Especially when Georgia Tech is pretty elite.

No, it's not OK.
You can view elite colleges however you like.
Don't force your view upon others.
We need transparent and fair system.

No we don’t. Elite college is not some public good to which you are entitled an equal shot of attending.

Then I don't want a dime of my tax dollar to go to those institutions if they discriminate and are not transparent

Well I can say I don't want my tax dollars going for roads in Alabama, yet they do (for example). I don't get to select everything my tax dollars are used for. I pay them for the good of society.
FYI---majority of the "elite institutions" you are scrambling to get into are private institutions, so they can do whatever the hell they want for admissions. State schools have to abide a bit more by their states rules/regulations. And finally, schools picking anyone over your kid does NOT mean they are discriminating----they are saying "NO" to almost 95% of those who apply, so it's not discrimination if everyone is largely getting told NO. You just do not like that your kid is not at an elite school.

It is discrimination. What people don’t understand is that “discrimination” is perfectly ok. We discriminate every day. Wear heels instead of flats? You discriminated. Eggs for breakfast instead of cereal? Discrimination.

Discrimination is one of those words people use incorrectly all the time

What people mean is unlawful discrimination. And that isn’t what’s happening here, just like choosing eggs over cereal isn’t unlawful, even if the cereal has been discriminated against.

The problem is the premise that some certain set of stats and accomplishments should be rewarded above all. That isn’t how things work. It never has been. And that’s Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge cultural chasm here. America does not have the same testing traditions you find in just about every other country in the world. Americans believe in never quitting more than they believe in winning. That's why footbalk teams that lose hard fought games get celebrated almost as though they won.

The difference is every other country in the world has clear rule and transparency.

Another difference is that America rewards persistence. Many other countries give you just one chance to measure up in life. Not so in the USA.

Test measures persistence. It's for 12 years of persistent education
Also they do reward persistence with sort of GPA together with Test

I don't care if you do GPA only Test only GPA + Test, GPA + Test + whatever.

The important thing is clear rule and transparency.

No, for the millionth time, there will never be "clear rule and transparency". You believe a 4.0 and 1600 is the best indicator. Most colleges do NOT. They want a certain threshold (1400/1450+ and great GPA) and then they want to actually look at the individual---so they might see some value in a kid who dances or a kid who is an advanced musician who taught inner city kids violin lessons in their spare time. They are looking for an overall well rounded individual---you think academics is the only thing. These other traits are NOT always easily measured/quantified with checkboxes on a list. And that is what bothers you, that there is no magic formula you can strive to complete. In reality, someone who belongs at an elite university gets this and naturally has done 95% of their activities because they like them and are self driven.

I didn't say academics is the only thing. That's in your head.
The underpaid AOs can't really look at individuals when you receive 50,000+ applications.
Colleges are already using point systems as you saw in Harvard case.
They do need some sort of point system.
Yes they can more clear about the rules and be transparent.

[Anonymous]

This year an Asian-American boy who was a USAMO camper was rejected by not only MIT but also CMU. Most DCUMs don’t know what USAMO camp is. It’s a pool of 250-300 best math students in the US competing for a spot on the USA Math Olympic Team. There are only 6 students on the national team. Then they compete against other countries in the Intl Math Olympiad. In the past, making USAMO cam was a guaranteed ticket to MIT. Not anymore. Especially if you are an Asian boy.