I feel bad for low-income/first-gen students at elite schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a Title 1 school and the rigor and workload is definitely lacking. Teachers are basically begging students to show up and hand in any work. If one of my high fliers went to a top school, the workload would crush them.

We are not doing the kids or ourselves any favors with low expectations.

Tell that to the people (not teachers) who make these very low expectations in terms of everything- attendance, grading, respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a Title 1 school and the rigor and workload is definitely lacking. Teachers are basically begging students to show up and hand in any work. If one of my high fliers went to a top school, the workload would crush them.

This is a helpful perspective. I teach a course at a "directional" university and the students who struggle the most each term seem to be from title 1 schools. It's frustrating because it's a very easy course. Yet I still find myself giving extensions because a good 25% of the students simply cannot be bothered to turn materials in on time (if at all).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a Title 1 school and the rigor and workload is definitely lacking. Teachers are basically begging students to show up and hand in any work. If one of my high fliers went to a top school, the workload would crush them.

This is a helpful perspective. I teach a course at a "directional" university and the students who struggle the most each term seem to be from title 1 schools. It's frustrating because it's a very easy course. Yet I still find myself giving extensions because a good 25% of the students simply cannot be bothered to turn materials in on time (if at all).

They lack discipline and work ethic. That’s why they should serve in the Army or Marine Corps before they go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a Title 1 school and the rigor and workload is definitely lacking. Teachers are basically begging students to show up and hand in any work. If one of my high fliers went to a top school, the workload would crush them.

This is a helpful perspective. I teach a course at a "directional" university and the students who struggle the most each term seem to be from title 1 schools. It's frustrating because it's a very easy course. Yet I still find myself giving extensions because a good 25% of the students simply cannot be bothered to turn materials in on time (if at all).

They lack discipline and work ethic. That’s why they should serve in the Army or Marine Corps before they go to college.

Yes, only poor people “lack discipline & work ethic.” The solution is for them to postpone attending college & risk getting their heads blown off, while wealthy kids go off to college and start earning money at 22. What a brilliant idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ehhh let’s not kid ourselves, if you graduate from a HYPSM your GPA does not matter much…

It absolutely still matters.

[Anonymous]

OP is an idiot. I clicked on the post expecting to see some huge difference and it’s tiny. 3.5 versus 3.7 GPA, who cares? They are all doing great. OP’s stated facts have actually disproved their conclusion.

The lower salaries are explainable by a lot of things that are beyond the control of the students: like not having parents/relatives/family friends who can mentor you, lacking the polish and experiences that go with UMC+ wealth and make for good networking chit-chat (ski trips, hobbies, sleepaway camp, international travel, etc.), not being able to do internships unless they are well paid. So if anything, OP’s conclusion should be that university career offices should try to help poorer students overcome these challenges. They can’t (and shouldn’t try) to make everything equal, but at least they can give them a boost by sponsoring students for internships and similar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a senior survey at Princeton which had a breakdown for GPA across income levels, first-gen status, etc: https://projects.dailyprincetonian.com/senior-survey-2022/academics.html

50% of first-gen students had a 3.6 GPA or higher, compared to 69% of non-first gen students.

The lowest income students by family household (below 40K) at Princeton had an average GPA of a 3.5, while the highest income students had a 3.72.

32% of the lowest income students reported cheating on an assignment or exam, compared to 21% of students overall.

Only 49% of students on financial aid reported having a job lined up for graduation, compared to 62% of those not on FA. Expected income for those on FA was 84K one year after graduating, compared to 124K for those not on FA. Students on all household income levels below 125K reported expected earnings under 84K, while all those over that level reported at least 115K.

These are considerable gaps. If higher ed is supposed to be the great equalizer, why are Princeton grads seeing such discrepancies corresponding with their background?

These "discrepancies" demonstrate what should be extremely obvious to everyone, which is that the "elite" schools are admitting low-income / first-gen students who are not academically qualified, and are doing so for ideological reasons.

You're comment is not the takeaway I see from OP's post

"The lowest income students by family household (below 40K) at Princeton had an average GPA of a 3.5, while the highest income students had a 3.72."

Oh, a 3.5 GPA from Stanford is so bad?
How dare Stanford risk sullying their academic reputation by allowing in such riff raff

+1 I don't understand how one draws that conclusion when the lowest income students are doing pretty damn well. Imagine if they didn't have to worry about work study, family obligations, and such like their higher household income peers.

The post isn’t a sincere look at how lower-income students are doing. It’s just an effort to promote stupid class warfare.

Even getting a 2.1 GPA from a school like Princeton or Yale is fine. And one of the goals of holistic admissions is to bring in some students who will be fine with being the students who get the C’s, in exchange for getting a good education and a valuable degree. So, any students who get C’s but are pleasant, have a good time and go in to have what they think of as a good life are success stories, from the perspective of a highly selective school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a senior survey at Princeton which had a breakdown for GPA across income levels, first-gen status, etc: https://projects.dailyprincetonian.com/senior-survey-2022/academics.html

50% of first-gen students had a 3.6 GPA or higher, compared to 69% of non-first gen students.

The lowest income students by family household (below 40K) at Princeton had an average GPA of a 3.5, while the highest income students had a 3.72.

32% of the lowest income students reported cheating on an assignment or exam, compared to 21% of students overall.

Only 49% of students on financial aid reported having a job lined up for graduation, compared to 62% of those not on FA. Expected income for those on FA was 84K one year after graduating, compared to 124K for those not on FA. Students on all household income levels below 125K reported expected earnings under 84K, while all those over that level reported at least 115K.

These are considerable gaps. If higher ed is supposed to be the great equalizer, why are Princeton grads seeing such discrepancies corresponding with their background?

You’re an abusive, manipulative troll with bad motives, and no interest whatsoever in the well-being of kids on financial aid, and you should feel bad about yourself.

??? Are you okay?

We have to stop feeding the class and race warfare trolls. They’re just Russians softening us up so it’s easier to invade Poland and nuke us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the OP is completely disingenuous. She doesn't feel bad for anyone, except maybe her kid who she thinks should more rightfully have taken the spot at an Ivy that a low income kid got instead.

She (or he) is just a Russian, Chinese or contracted other country troll try to foment division within the United States, not anyone with a sincere interest in education policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the OP is completely disingenuous. She doesn't feel bad for anyone, except maybe her kid who she thinks should more rightfully have taken the spot at an Ivy that a low income kid got instead.

She (or he) is just a Russian, Chinese or contracted other country troll try to foment division within the United States, not anyone with a sincere interest in education policy.

You are a brainwashed idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the OP is completely disingenuous. She doesn't feel bad for anyone, except maybe her kid who she thinks should more rightfully have taken the spot at an Ivy that a low income kid got instead.

She (or he) is just a Russian, Chinese or contracted other country troll try to foment division within the United States, not anyone with a sincere interest in education policy.

You are a brainwashed idiot.

Well then the alternative is that OP is a stupid American who is suffering from a poor math education and lack of common sense. They mention no real numbers in their original post and any intelligent person who looks at the actual study can see it doesn't support what they say.

I'm hopefully wanting the PP who accused the Russians and Chinese to be right.
NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a Title 1 school and the rigor and workload is definitely lacking. Teachers are basically begging students to show up and hand in any work. If one of my high fliers went to a top school, the workload would crush them.

This is a helpful perspective. I teach a course at a "directional" university and the students who struggle the most each term seem to be from title 1 schools. It's frustrating because it's a very easy course. Yet I still find myself giving extensions because a good 25% of the students simply cannot be bothered to turn materials in on time (if at all).

They lack discipline and work ethic. That’s why they should serve in the Army or Marine Corps before they go to college.

Yes, only poor people “lack discipline & work ethic.” The solution is for them to postpone attending college & risk getting their heads blown off, while wealthy kids go off to college and start earning money at 22. What a brilliant idea.

Who else joins military then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a Title 1 school and the rigor and workload is definitely lacking. Teachers are basically begging students to show up and hand in any work. If one of my high fliers went to a top school, the workload would crush them.

This is a helpful perspective. I teach a course at a "directional" university and the students who struggle the most each term seem to be from title 1 schools. It's frustrating because it's a very easy course. Yet I still find myself giving extensions because a good 25% of the students simply cannot be bothered to turn materials in on time (if at all).

They lack discipline and work ethic. That’s why they should serve in the Army or Marine Corps before they go to college.

I was a LMC rural school admit to an Ivy, I had a very hard time and I of course majored in a “hard” major because I needed a practical degree that would translate to a job when I graduated.

Student loans for law or med school would mean borrowing more than my parents house was worth — completely unfathomable.

I really wish my school had made me do a year at a prep school — I know that happens to a few people who are admitted, maybe it’s something they do for recruiter athletes? I don’t know who would pay for it — my parents certainly didn’t have the money, but I wish they had looked at my transcript — realized my school offered zero AP or IB courses and realized even though I was smart and tested well, I had never been challenged academically in my school career. Suddenly with real expectations and the need triage, i prioritized the wrong things: I used to just read the text then do the homework — I was very bad at taking class notes and our lectures were generally useless anyways. But college classes often have limited text resources and the lectures ARE the course, and I couldn’t capture what was said in a useful way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a Title 1 school and the rigor and workload is definitely lacking. Teachers are basically begging students to show up and hand in any work. If one of my high fliers went to a top school, the workload would crush them.

This is a helpful perspective. I teach a course at a "directional" university and the students who struggle the most each term seem to be from title 1 schools. It's frustrating because it's a very easy course. Yet I still find myself giving extensions because a good 25% of the students simply cannot be bothered to turn materials in on time (if at all).

They lack discipline and work ethic. That’s why they should serve in the Army or Marine Corps before they go to college.

Yes, only poor people “lack discipline & work ethic.” The solution is for them to postpone attending college & risk getting their heads blown off, while wealthy kids go off to college and start earning money at 22. What a brilliant idea.

Who else joins military then?

Whoever wants to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a Title 1 school and the rigor and workload is definitely lacking. Teachers are basically begging students to show up and hand in any work. If one of my high fliers went to a top school, the workload would crush them.

This is a helpful perspective. I teach a course at a "directional" university and the students who struggle the most each term seem to be from title 1 schools. It's frustrating because it's a very easy course. Yet I still find myself giving extensions because a good 25% of the students simply cannot be bothered to turn materials in on time (if at all).

They lack discipline and work ethic. That’s why they should serve in the Army or Marine Corps before they go to college.

Yes, only poor people “lack discipline & work ethic.” The solution is for them to postpone attending college & risk getting their heads blown off, while wealthy kids go off to college and start earning money at 22. What a brilliant idea.

Who else joins military then?

You’re despicable