Cities starting to ban scooters. DC to follow?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If Idaho stops are good enough for cyclists, they’re good enough for me in my SUV

You are a sociopath

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This Idaho Stop business is really pernicious. You can’t tell one group of people they don’t have to follow the rules without everyone else asking why they can’t do the same. It really teaches the public that traffic laws don’t matter.

And most jurisdictions don't enforce the speed limit absolutely. What gives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

Omg, an old lady clutched her pearls because a 13 year old menace on a scooter nearly buzzed her on a city sidewalk. I guess we need to ban all scooters now! No, no, no, the cars that kill 35,000-45,000 people a year for the last nearly 100 years are absolutely just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, PP, we get it -- cars are worse than scooters. Environmentally and in terms of harming people. Yes, I agree. But we live in a society that has designated a space for cars and the cars largely stay in that space.

Motorized scooters are a new addition and there's no safe place for them in the current infrastructure. They go too fast on sidewalks to be safe for pedestrians (and yes, people on scooters act entitled to have pedestrians move out of their way even though pedestrians are using the sidewalks as designed and shouldn't be expected to yield in that space). They are not fast enough for bike lanes, and of course it would not be safe for scooters to be in car lanes.

We went through this with bikes, too -- for a long time cyclists wanted to be able to use sidewalks because they didn't like being in the street with the cars (understandably). But pedestrians need a space that is just for them.

I'd support moves to ban cars from certain streets, increase taxes on cars and driving, and change the infrastructure focus away from cars and towards public transportation and alternative modes of transit. But none of that changes my opinion on scooters, which is that they are unsafe on sidewalks and endanger pedestrians.

Maybe if we created more carless streets, scooters could use the streets. Let's lobby for that instead. Keep them away from pedestrians who need to have safe walkways preserved.

I'm 100% in favor of micromobility lanes. The solution is not to ban scooters, it's to create safe micromobility infrastructure.

The vast, vast, vast majority of pedestrians who are injured or killed in traffic are injured by drivers of cars. To say "drivers largely stay in the space designated for cars" ignores the people injured or killed when drivers go out of that car space, as well as the people injured or killed when people have to go into that car space.

Yes, cars kill pedestrians. I hate cars. But 99.9% of drivers understand that pedestrians have right of way on sidewalks and in cross walks, and the vast majority of times, they observe that right of way.

Scooters don't. If you are on a scooter on a sidewalk and someone is walking slowly in front of you, you have zero right to ask that person to get out of your way, and you definitely don't have a right to expect that pedestrian to get out of your way without you even having to slow down. But people on scooters do this ALL THE TIME. Sidewalks are for pedestrians but scooters treat them like roads that people happen to walk in sometimes.

If you can't understand that this is an issue, even if it's not as big of an issue as cars, you aren't going to find a lot of allies among pedestrians. Cyclists tried this too -- there was a time when cyclists were trying to use the sidewalks as well, and laws got passed to prevent it because sidewalks are for pedestrians. Advocate for more multi-use bike/scooter lanes. But until they are there, don't expect pedestrians to welcome scooters onto the sidewalks.

Bicyclists can legally use the sidewalk in most places. I do advocate for more multi-use lanes. I also recognize that people using all modes of transportation can be jerks, including people using scooters and people using bicycles. However, objectively, there is only one mode of transportation that is consistently lethal when its users are jerks, and that's cars/trucks. Let's focus on that.

Most places? DC is the first city I've lived in that allows sidewalk cyclers. In every other city I've lived in, the sidewalks are full of people.

I don't drive, and we are currently living conveniently. For a variety of reasons we are thinking of moving a little further. I was thinking of scooters or bike (on sidewalk) as my best options. I'm a very respectful pedestrian and would be the same on scooter or bike. I think a scooter would take up less space on a shared sidewalk?

No. No motorized vehicles on sidewalks.

Why would this be a problem if I acted responsibly? Also, aren't they legal on sidewalks? Where are you supposed to ride them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists and people on scooters should be required to have liability insurance, just like motorists

I would do this - but let's not kid ourselves about the amount of motorists driving uninsured with no consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Idaho Stop business is really pernicious. You can’t tell one group of people they don’t have to follow the rules without everyone else asking why they can’t do the same. It really teaches the public that traffic laws don’t matter.

And most jurisdictions don't enforce the speed limit absolutely. What gives?

Speed Ameristar sure do!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Idaho Stop business is really pernicious. You can’t tell one group of people they don’t have to follow the rules without everyone else asking why they can’t do the same. It really teaches the public that traffic laws don’t matter.

And most jurisdictions don't enforce the speed limit absolutely. What gives?

Speed Ameristar sure do!

Cameras!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

Omg, an old lady clutched her pearls because a 13 year old menace on a scooter nearly buzzed her on a city sidewalk. I guess we need to ban all scooters now! No, no, no, the cars that kill 35,000-45,000 people a year for the last nearly 100 years are absolutely just fine.

All motorized scooters age limit is 18 and older. Why are you dismissive of older women? Don't they the right to not get hit by a scooter flying by at 25 miles an hour? An who are the idiots who ride with their kids in front!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think all of the online cyclist nut jobs give everyone else on a bike a bad name. Literally no one cared. They just went around me without comment or incident like a normal person does.

The scooter people kind of worried me a bit because they go very fast, are pretty reckless and and not typically the kind of people you would think would have good balance and reflexes.

Only a55holes park in bike lanes. Cyclists get runover because they have to go around your lazy a55. Stop acting so put upon to not park in bike lanes.

Nah, I don’t plan to change. Sucks for you

How sad and childish you are. Someone's kid might get killed and you shrug. I think the person who sucks is you.

[Anonymous]

They're a hazard and need to be banned. To many serious injuries caused by these showing up at the ER

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're a hazard and need to be banned. To many serious injuries caused by these showing up at the ER

Mostly to the drivers of the scooters? Do they wear helmets?

[Anonymous]

I think you either need to limit them to bike lanes OR limit their speed by a lot. People driving a motorized vehicle on the sidewalk 20-25 mph are dangerous, full stop. Especially when there are small children and dogs and people in mobility devices as well. Kids and dogs tend to shift direction quickly and don’t always have great awareness of their surroundings. Someone in a mobility device needs to always be given right of way. Scooters need to be slower or banned from sidewalks.

And before you yell at me about cars: speed limits for cars should also be lower and I think private cars should be banned from very dense urban neighborhoods with good public transportation access (you need to ensure it stays accessible to people with limited mobility). But I think that’s a separate conversation. I’ll note that this thread was started with discussion of Paris banning scooters. Paris recently moved aggressively to limit cars in many parts of the city, to great benefit of people who live there. So it’s not like banning scooters is a “pro-car” position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're a hazard and need to be banned. To many serious injuries caused by these showing up at the ER

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/introduction/

Medically consulted injuries in motor-vehicle incidents totaled 4.8 million in 2020, and total motor-vehicle injury costs were estimated at $473.2 billion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you either need to limit them to bike lanes OR limit their speed by a lot. People driving a motorized vehicle on the sidewalk 20-25 mph are dangerous, full stop. Especially when there are small children and dogs and people in mobility devices as well. Kids and dogs tend to shift direction quickly and don’t always have great awareness of their surroundings. Someone in a mobility device needs to always be given right of way. Scooters need to be slower or banned from sidewalks.

And before you yell at me about cars: speed limits for cars should also be lower and I think private cars should be banned from very dense urban neighborhoods with good public transportation access (you need to ensure it stays accessible to people with limited mobility). But I think that’s a separate conversation. I’ll note that this thread was started with discussion of Paris banning scooters. Paris recently moved aggressively to limit cars in many parts of the city, to great benefit of people who live there. So it’s not like banning scooters is a “pro-car” position.

Rental scooters (which is what Paris banned) already are speed-limited to 10 mph in DC. And rental scooter parking can be geo-fenced, so the rental company doesn't stop charging you until you have returned your scooter to a designated scooter parking area.

For people on scooters to ride in bike lanes, there need to be bike lanes.

Cars could also have speed-limiters. Why don't we do a lot more of that?

[Anonymous]

I'm a careful driver and the scooters seem incredibly dangerous. I see scooter riders all the time zipping around corners without stopping to ascertain if a pedestrian or vehicle is approaching. They weave in and out of lanes in traffic. At dusk or later, they're completely invisible. I understand why people find them useful but in a city environment (as opposed to a college campus or a park) they're a huge hazard to the riders themselves.