Cities starting to ban scooters. DC to follow?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

This. Manhattan has so much congestion and streets that are not car or speeding friendly (narrow, lots of one ways, very few places where you can pick up speed before you have to stop) so the dangers of cars are heavily mitigated. People on scooters and bikes who don't feel they have to obey any rules at all, and are not inhibited by the size of their vehicle, pose a bigger threat.

In my DC neighborhood, there are two places where I worry about cars and am super vigilant. But I worry about scooters and rogue cyclists everywhere when it comes to my kid. Scooters are especially bad because they are mostly on the sidewalk and because I don't get the sense that users are in great control of them either (at least most regular cyclists have very good control of their bikes, most people don't use scooters enough to have that kind of mastery -- I've seen so many people just fall over on them in the middle of the sidewalk because they don't know how to control the speed or how to stop).

You may not be aware that in DC bikes do not have to stop at stop signs.

Yes they do. This is not true and is the problem with the Idaho Stop law in that it facilitates this belief. Bicycles are required to stop at stop signs unless there are no other vehicles or pedestrians present. That is the law. Stop breaking the law and please cycle safe so that everyone can be safe. Thank you.

I came to a four way stop the other day with another car and a scooter and the guy on the scooter about flipped over his handle bars when he realized I wasn’t going to let him just blow the stop sign when I have the right of way. He came to a screeeeeeeching halt.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Theyre incredibly dangerous. A young man died a couple blocks from us in Shaw. He was hit and run. Tragic. I agree they need to do something about the cars that are speeding, blowing through lights and stop signs and dgaf about cameras. But allowing scooters is like putting goldfish in the tank with sharks.

A hit-and-run car driver killed a scooter user, and you say SCOOTERS are dangerous?

m

Both. He didnt stand a chance, sadly. Im completely disgusted by the criminal drivers speeding up and down our street with their loud engines and bad music. Dont get me started. But scooters are just a death wish. Plus people look like asses. They think this is a beach town or something. They can ride scooters around in the parents cul de sac or driveway in the burbs.

Good thing nobody cares that some random nobody on the internet thinks they “look like asses.”

And no, I’ve never ridden a scooter.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ugh, PP, we get it -- cars are worse than scooters. Environmentally and in terms of harming people. Yes, I agree. But we live in a society that has designated a space for cars and the cars largely stay in that space.

Motorized scooters are a new addition and there's no safe place for them in the current infrastructure. They go too fast on sidewalks to be safe for pedestrians (and yes, people on scooters act entitled to have pedestrians move out of their way even though pedestrians are using the sidewalks as designed and shouldn't be expected to yield in that space). They are not fast enough for bike lanes, and of course it would not be safe for scooters to be in car lanes.

We went through this with bikes, too -- for a long time cyclists wanted to be able to use sidewalks because they didn't like being in the street with the cars (understandably). But pedestrians need a space that is just for them.

I'd support moves to ban cars from certain streets, increase taxes on cars and driving, and change the infrastructure focus away from cars and towards public transportation and alternative modes of transit. But none of that changes my opinion on scooters, which is that they are unsafe on sidewalks and endanger pedestrians.

Maybe if we created more carless streets, scooters could use the streets. Let's lobby for that instead. Keep them away from pedestrians who need to have safe walkways preserved.

I'm 100% in favor of micromobility lanes. The solution is not to ban scooters, it's to create safe micromobility infrastructure.

The vast, vast, vast majority of pedestrians who are injured or killed in traffic are injured by drivers of cars. To say "drivers largely stay in the space designated for cars" ignores the people injured or killed when drivers go out of that car space, as well as the people injured or killed when people have to go into that car space.

Yes, cars kill pedestrians. I hate cars. But 99.9% of drivers understand that pedestrians have right of way on sidewalks and in cross walks, and the vast majority of times, they observe that right of way.

Scooters don't. If you are on a scooter on a sidewalk and someone is walking slowly in front of you, you have zero right to ask that person to get out of your way, and you definitely don't have a right to expect that pedestrian to get out of your way without you even having to slow down. But people on scooters do this ALL THE TIME. Sidewalks are for pedestrians but scooters treat them like roads that people happen to walk in sometimes.

If you can't understand that this is an issue, even if it's not as big of an issue as cars, you aren't going to find a lot of allies among pedestrians. Cyclists tried this too -- there was a time when cyclists were trying to use the sidewalks as well, and laws got passed to prevent it because sidewalks are for pedestrians. Advocate for more multi-use bike/scooter lanes. But until they are there, don't expect pedestrians to welcome scooters onto the sidewalks.

Bicyclists can legally use the sidewalk in most places. I do advocate for more multi-use lanes. I also recognize that people using all modes of transportation can be jerks, including people using scooters and people using bicycles. However, objectively, there is only one mode of transportation that is consistently lethal when its users are jerks, and that's cars/trucks. Let's focus on that.

Why not both? I don’t have trouble focusing on the dangers posed by cars AND scooters to pedestrians on sidewalks. I don’t think either of them (they are both motorized vehicles that can travel much faster than anyone can walk or run) belong on sidewalks. Bikes don’t belong on sidewalks either unless you are walking it.

Sidewalks are for pedestrians, full stop. If you want to ride a scooter, great. Just not on the sidewalk. And don’t worry, I would also get mad at anyone who wanted to drive a car, motorcycle, electric bike, small prop plane, or speed boat on the sidewalk. Sidewalks are for walking.

What do you mean “full stop?” That’s not the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

No. Ban cars instead.

Will never, ever happen.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can they ride in bike lanes?

Is a scooter a BIKE? No.

Therefore they have no place in BIKE lanes.

Anybody can do anything in bike lanes. You can walk or jog or ride scooters or skateboards or whatever. No one is going to stop you.

If you’re walking or jogging or on a scooter or skateboard in the bike lane I will run your ass over if you’re not keeping pace. I guess that might stop you, hmmmm?

And you’ll go to prison. I guess that might stop you, hmmmmm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

These cities aren't banning scooters. they are limiting rental scooters. People can still own them and use them or rent them and use them, just not the ones that are left on the streets without oversight.

Paris is not limiting rental scooters. Paris is banning them entirely.

I admire your blind confidence in your wrongness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mostly want both scooters and cyclists off the sidewalks!!

I want a pony!!!

[Anonymous]

This Idaho Stop business is really pernicious. You can’t tell one group of people they don’t have to follow the rules without everyone else asking why they can’t do the same. It really teaches the public that traffic laws don’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

This. Manhattan has so much congestion and streets that are not car or speeding friendly (narrow, lots of one ways, very few places where you can pick up speed before you have to stop) so the dangers of cars are heavily mitigated. People on scooters and bikes who don't feel they have to obey any rules at all, and are not inhibited by the size of their vehicle, pose a bigger threat.

In my DC neighborhood, there are two places where I worry about cars and am super vigilant. But I worry about scooters and rogue cyclists everywhere when it comes to my kid. Scooters are especially bad because they are mostly on the sidewalk and because I don't get the sense that users are in great control of them either (at least most regular cyclists have very good control of their bikes, most people don't use scooters enough to have that kind of mastery -- I've seen so many people just fall over on them in the middle of the sidewalk because they don't know how to control the speed or how to stop).

You may not be aware that in DC bikes do not have to stop at stop signs.

Yes they do. This is not true and is the problem with the Idaho Stop law in that it facilitates this belief. Bicycles are required to stop at stop signs unless there are no other vehicles or pedestrians present. That is the law. Stop breaking the law and please cycle safe so that everyone can be safe. Thank you.

I came to a four way stop the other day with another car and a scooter and the guy on the scooter about flipped over his handle bars when he realized I wasn’t going to let him just blow the stop sign when I have the right of way. He came to a screeeeeeeching halt.

I always force cyclists to stop at intersections unless they want to slam into my car

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mostly want both scooters and cyclists off the sidewalks!!

I want a pony!!!

Fine. Keep it off the sidewalk!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This Idaho Stop business is really pernicious. You can’t tell one group of people they don’t have to follow the rules without everyone else asking why they can’t do the same. It really teaches the public that traffic laws don’t matter.

There is no such thing as 'the rules' that universally apply to everyone. Different laws apply to different modes of transportation. For example: pedestrians are required to walk on the sidewalk, if there is one; drivers are forbidden from driving on the sidewalk; bicyclists who ride in the road must ride as far to the right as feasible, unless they're turning left. Drivers need a driver's license; pedestrians don't. Children on bicycles must wear helmets; children in cars must be in car seats but do not have to wear helmets. And so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can they ride in bike lanes?

Is a scooter a BIKE? No.

Therefore they have no place in BIKE lanes.

Anybody can do anything in bike lanes. You can walk or jog or ride scooters or skateboards or whatever. No one is going to stop you.

If you’re walking or jogging or on a scooter or skateboard in the bike lane I will run your ass over if you’re not keeping pace. I guess that might stop you, hmmmm?

And you’ll go to prison. I guess that might stop you, hmmmmm?

They won't go to prison unless they were drunk. Or maybe if they hit and run. If they're drunk AND hit and run, they will probably go to prison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Idaho Stop business is really pernicious. You can’t tell one group of people they don’t have to follow the rules without everyone else asking why they can’t do the same. It really teaches the public that traffic laws don’t matter.

There is no such thing as 'the rules' that universally apply to everyone. Different laws apply to different modes of transportation. For example: pedestrians are required to walk on the sidewalk, if there is one; drivers are forbidden from driving on the sidewalk; bicyclists who ride in the road must ride as far to the right as feasible, unless they're turning left. Drivers need a driver's license; pedestrians don't. Children on bicycles must wear helmets; children in cars must be in car seats but do not have to wear helmets. And so on.

If Idaho stops are good enough for cyclists, they’re good enough for me in my SUV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Idaho Stop business is really pernicious. You can’t tell one group of people they don’t have to follow the rules without everyone else asking why they can’t do the same. It really teaches the public that traffic laws don’t matter.

There is no such thing as 'the rules' that universally apply to everyone. Different laws apply to different modes of transportation. For example: pedestrians are required to walk on the sidewalk, if there is one; drivers are forbidden from driving on the sidewalk; bicyclists who ride in the road must ride as far to the right as feasible, unless they're turning left. Drivers need a driver's license; pedestrians don't. Children on bicycles must wear helmets; children in cars must be in car seats but do not have to wear helmets. And so on.

If Idaho stops are good enough for cyclists, they’re good enough for me in my SUV

Are you also upset because pedestrians don't have to have a driver's license, don't have to stop at stop signs, and get to use the sidewalk?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I came to a four way stop the other day with another car and a scooter and the guy on the scooter about flipped over his handle bars when he realized I wasn’t going to let him just blow the stop sign when I have the right of way. He came to a screeeeeeeching halt.

You are a POS