Forum Index
»
Political Discussion
Arizona style immigration law coming to Virginia?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
Money, money, money, and more money. Money that should be used to help American Citizens and LEGAL immigrants. |
Anonymous
| In DC, MD, VA you're living in Ivory Towers. Try living in Arizona, New Mexico, Calif., TExas and then you'll understand why there are no bleeding hearts. Stop your bleeding heart crap until you actually experience what it is like to live with so many illegal immigrants. Just because you use illegals to clean your house, care for your children and take care of your garden and swimming pool doesn't give you any idea of what problems illegal immigrants create. |
Anonymous
Please, show me how much money it costs citizens? Every statistic I've seen is that there is a net financial gain in the aggregate to the nation by the presence of illegal immigrants. I realize that the positives and negatives are not uniformly distributed, but the idea that illegal immigrants are here bleeding the system dry is simply wrong. |
Anonymous
Please, oh enlightened one, tell us what problems they create? If we live in close enough proximity, as you propose, to have them clean our house, care for our children, and take care of our garden and pool, wouldn't we be close enough to see the problems they create? Or are these immigrants commuting daily from the Southwest? The economic benefits provided by immigrants goes far beyond the areas listed. Labor prices and food prices are artificially depressed (or naturally depressed, if you are a true free market advocate) because of the low wages paid to immigrants. So you benefit as well, even if you don't employ illegal immigrants in the manner described. That's not to say it's right that so much of our economy is built on exploiting illegal immigrants. Reform is needed. But not in the callous way advocated here which shows a willful ignorance of the facts in question. |
Anonymous
|
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/02/AR2010070204359.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns
Whoops! Again, facts, facts, facts... Don't you just HATE when they get in the way of a carefully constructed diatribe built on scare-tactics and appeals to emotion? |
Anonymous
|
Washington Post Today: "Montgomery member of 18th Street gang pleads guilty to murder The attackers stabbed Guzman-Saenz while he was in the car, prosecutors said in court. At the creek, more people came out of a second car, and the assault continued. As many as nine people took turns stabbing him with at least two knives, one with a 12-inch blade. Guzman-Saenz, who was 5-9 and weighed 130 pounds, suffered wounds that extended through his torso and punctured the other side.... The victim was not a gang member, police said. He was trying to take a bus to a friend's house when he was killed, authorities said. On Monday, Ysaud Flores, 31, admitted to driving one of the cars used in the killing... Immigration officials have placed a detainer on Flores, Montgomery jail officials said Monday, meaning that he could be in the country illegally. " http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/19/AR2010071905223.html |
Anonymous
Even $1.00 is $1.00 too much. |
Anonymous
Did you ignore the part about how they contribute MORE than they take? And how wise it is to spend millions upon millions to recoup that dollar? |
Anonymous
Contributions: more damn kids for legal taxpayers to pay for; more crime; taking jobs other Americans would take if illegals didn't take them for such low rates; employers paying under the table and not paying their fair share of taxes. These are what you call desirable contributions? Let them go back to Mexico, El Salvador, or wherever, and contribute there. |
Anonymous
|
PP-
Are you actually interesting in discussing or just spewing rhetoric? Some of what you mentioned are the negative externalities of illegal immigration. But what of the positives? If those jobs were held by Americans at the wages required to staff them all, plus the taxes paid, a lot of products (particularly food) would be much more expensive than it is. Labor would be a lot more expensive, as well. Are you prepared to pay fair market value for labor and food? I doubt it. Proportionately, illegal immigrants commit less crime than those here legally. Again, all the stats demonstrate that there is a net aggregate gain from illegal immigration. Does this make it necessarily desirable? Not necessarily. But your argument has been debunked time and time again. Yet you cling to it. Why? |
Anonymous
It isn't the farmer who gets the high prices for food or other items. Yes, I already pay a lot for food and if this food is harvested by illegal immigrants, and according to you, keeps lower prices, than where are these lower prices for food? I'm jaded because I work with American citizens, elderly, pregnant, sick and sometimes I can't even get food stamps for people who live in poverty. Don't tell me illegal immigrants don't take advantage of the system because they do. Every single working day, I fight for the disenfrancised. Statistics can be made to go any way a statistician wishes them to go but I see the haunted looks of children who don't have adequate diets, the elderly who have to choose between food, rent, or medicine, pregnant American citizens whose pre and post-natal care is abhorent. I'm not a hot shot lawyer making $500.00 plus per hour--I'm a social worker who makes less than $100,000 per year but, whoever the hell you and the other bleeding hearts are, I do a whole hell of a lot more work than you do, even though I'm burned out, because someone has to give a damn and you and your elitist incompetents just spew rhetoric and don't do a damn thing except excuse the problem because "these people are only here to give their children a better life." Also, for the record, I'm white and the people I see are white, african-American, Hispanic (legal), Asian, African. If they are here legally, I will go to hell and back for them and won't give up. But I won't raise one finger for any illegal. You don't like it--tough toodles. |
Anonymous
Assume much? First off, I'm a teacher making less than $50K a year, so maybe you should get off the soap box for a bit. To the issue at hand, I'm not saying food prices are absurdly low, just that they are lower than they would be if American citizens were being paid legally to fill those positions. So if food prices already feel too high, they'd be even higher still if not for the exploited labor of illegal immigrants (note: I'm not defending the current system, as I think it is wrong that our prices are artificially depressed because of this exploitation). And while illegal immigrants do impose a tax burden, it is often overstated. Many people claim that illegal immigrants bleed the various welfare systems dry, which is patently false because any illegal immigrant attempting to gain access to such services must demonstrate citizenship; there is the possibility of falsified records, but this is a VERY low possibility. So, while I sympathize with your situation and applaud you for your work, I think if you really looked at the numbers, you would see that likely all of the people you work with are more likely to benefit from the presence of illegal immigrants than they are to be harmed. As you said, paying rent or grocery bills is hard for these people because of limited access to public assistance. But rent and grocery bills would be even higher, and there is no guarantee that removing illegal immigrants would increase services to citizens. That is a common refrain, but ironically enough, the people who tout that are also the same people who generally want to reduce public assistance in totality. That's not to say the two go hand in hand, only that the politicians who likely would support your position w/r/t immigration would prefer to see you out of a job in their ideal world. I applaud you for the work you do. But I'm curious why you don't extent your empathy for citizens to non-citizens. In spite of some people's best efforts to portray differently, these illegal immigrants have more in common with the people you work with than we often realize. Most illegal immigrants are hard working people who want to do better for their families. Most of them are guilty of nothing more than crossing a line in the dirt. Yes, there are some who commit egregious crimes and that is wrong-wrong-wrong, but that is true of any group and we should not cast the lot out because of the wrongdoing of a few. I'm not necessarily saying you should extend your work efforts to these people, but to hear you speak so callously of them is troubling, as they are people all the same. Lastly, while you are right that stats can be manipulated, without direct evidence that the stats in question were manipulated or stats that demonstrate the contrary, to just throw out stats you don't like is intellectually dishonest. If we all did that, there would be no point in even dialoguing. |
Anonymous
Um, no. Your assertion above is patently false or uninformed. There are many situations where illegal aliens can gain free public services without showing citizen papers. Or, they gain them with 'fake papers' - even worse. |
Anonymous
|
Evidence please? Just saying something doesn't make it so. Please substantiate such claims.
If that is the case, I wonder how a system that you need to fight in order to secure benefits for citizens is so easily accessed by non-citizens. If that is indeed the case, I will stand side-by-side with you in seeking reform to that. But first you need to provide some evidence that that is really what is happening. |
Anonymous
|
1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
* * * * * * * * 2. All ballots will be in this nation's language. * * * * * * * * 3.. All government business will be conducted in our language. * * * * * * * * 4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here. * * * * * * * * 5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office. * * * * * * * * 6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported. * * * * * * * * 7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. * * * * * * * * 8. If foreigners come here and buy land... Options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country. * * * * * * * * 9.. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation. * * * * * * * * 10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TOO STRICT? The above laws are current immigration laws of MEXICO !!! |