UMD CS or UVA CS?

[Anonymous]

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CL20171 wrote:- UVA CS is $46k/yr
- UMD CS is $43k/yr with Merit.

The cost is not much difference.
Which one is better choice?
Thank you for any input?

We're kind of in the same boat so really appreciate all the inputs above.
How about throwing Pudue and VT into the comparison?
UVA CS, 46K(in-state), School rank 25, CS rank 29.
Purdue CS, 41K(OOS), School rank 51, CS rank 16.
UMD CS 49K(w/ merit), School rank 55, CS rank 16.
VT CS , 32K(in-state), School rank 62, CS rank 29.
Visited all except Purdue. DS has no real preference between the 3 visited.
Double major intended.
Tuition are in doable range range for us.
Thoughts?

In cs no one really cares where you go to school. It’s just competitive parents. The degree is what matters. All good choices. Congratulations

Right, a CS degree at MIT or CMU is the same as from Purdue or UVA. LOL

You realize that they all end up at the same companies so yes, it is just people competitive like you.

LOL You do not work in the CS field.

The vast majority of CS grads don't work for FAANG, that is true. But people in the CS industry know which CS programs are the best, and they will recruit from there.

That doesn't mean UVA CS grads can't find jobs. Of course not. But, if you want a good CS program, you go to UMD, not UVA.

UVA boosters just can't stand that UMD CS is better than UVA. It's almost pathetic to watch you all and your "both are good schools". You would never say that about other majors. UVA CS is no better than VTech. If they all end up in the same companies, then save yourself $$ and go to VTech.

I greatly enjoy my FANG spouse's pay check so I think I do know he has no issue getting a job and he went to a no name school no one has heard of. After a few years of experience, skill, degree and how you interview are equally important. Funny enough, he's never had an issue getting or keeping a job even when others couldn't. Clearly he's doing something right from his bad CS school. His crummy degree will pay for our kids to get their CS degree to paying cash for it... not to shabby.

That's interesting.. because I (PP) also went to no name, didn't even major in CS but worked for FAANG.

But, it took a lot longer to get there, and I'm thinking it did for your DH (hence the experience needed). We are outliers. The vast majority in FAANG are not from no name state university. I used to live in the Bay Area, too.

Don't know how old your DH is, but back when I worked for FAANG they had a list of acceptable colleges by degree.

Also, one of the FAANG founders went to UMD. None went to UVA. Just so you know.

If you really think it doesn't matter where you go to college for CS, then go to a C rated school and see how you do.

Again, a UVA grad in CS will be able to find a job, just a GMU grad can. So, then why not go to GMU over UVA if the outcome is the same?

A lot of his coworkers are not from fancy schools and many have degrees other than cs. I think it helps for your first job, but it also helps knowing someone who can help you get a job. Go to the school that is the best fit for the student. Skill and interviewing is also important when some companies make you do multiple interviews. We’ve had friends from good schools get turned down for similar jobs. They just did not interview well. Having a clearance helps a lot too.

Well, of course.. FAANG companies hire a lot of people with degrees other than CS.

I don't know about the other FAANGs, but I do know that the one I worked at doesn't care if you know someone there. Your resume goes in the pile, unless you have some amazing achievement that someone pointed out.. like you developed some really great stuff at your previous job or at college.

And yes, interview skills are very important. The FAANG company I worked for asked questions that tested your critical thinking skills and ability to think on the spot, unrelated to CS. These were general mental teaser type questions.

The first job also is a stepping stone to the next job, which leads to it taking longer to get to a FAANG job if you don't have that pedigree.

Most of the people I worked with went to places like Cornell, MIT, Cal... those were the ones who were hired directly. The others who went to lower tiered schools came through a circuitous route, myself included.

In any case, the vast majority of IT workers don't work for a FAANG, so yes, if you are just out for a regular IT job, it doesn't really matter where you graduated from. But, it's a lot harder and takes longer to get a job at FAANG without the pedigree of where you went to school.

Hum. You had to go the circuitous route…funny as my spouse from a no name school got hired quickly after the interviews. Never has an issue getting a job or transferring. But, sure, keep telling yourself it’s all schools. After so many years experience no one cares but you.

Because I'm probably way older than your spouse. I don't care where people went to school. Why would I? I didn't go to a great school, either. My DC is probably going in state.

But, it's not about me or your spouse. It's about the fact that generally, coming out of a great school for that major gives you a better chance to get a higher paying job. And that sets your baseline for your future.

He’s in his very late 50s so no you are just stretching to justify your bad advice. A good school helps but op is asking about two great school choices so it’s not really an issue.

I'm not stretching. I'm also in my 50s. The point is that we are outliers in the FAANG world. If you want to work for a FAANG you have a much higher chance to do so if you go to a strong CS school like UMD.

Again, that doesn't FAANG doesn't hire from no name state u, but your chances are greater if you go to a strong CS school.

Humm... no, maybe your FAANG company but there is a huge mix from 20's all the way up. It may get you a quicker initial hire but in FAANG keeping the job is much harder if its a cut-throat environment as some companies force managers to give bad ratings and weed out one employee even if all are really good and they pressure managers to screw people over for no reason. And, most managers are trying to survive vs. have their employees back.

However, these are both great schools and either way OP child will do well going to either.

well of course. I never said you don't have to be good at your job. But as you noted, it is much easier to get a job at FAANG depending on where you go to school. That was my point.

And I'm now usually the oldest in my team. I feel so old. I could be some of my teammates parent. LOL

[Anonymous]

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CL20171 wrote:- UVA CS is $46k/yr
- UMD CS is $43k/yr with Merit.

The cost is not much difference.
Which one is better choice?
Thank you for any input?

We're kind of in the same boat so really appreciate all the inputs above.
How about throwing Pudue and VT into the comparison?
UVA CS, 46K(in-state), School rank 25, CS rank 29.
Purdue CS, 41K(OOS), School rank 51, CS rank 16.
UMD CS 49K(w/ merit), School rank 55, CS rank 16.
VT CS , 32K(in-state), School rank 62, CS rank 29.
Visited all except Purdue. DS has no real preference between the 3 visited.
Double major intended.
Tuition are in doable range range for us.
Thoughts?

In cs no one really cares where you go to school. It’s just competitive parents. The degree is what matters. All good choices. Congratulations

Right, a CS degree at MIT or CMU is the same as from Purdue or UVA. LOL

You realize that they all end up at the same companies so yes, it is just people competitive like you.

LOL You do not work in the CS field.

The vast majority of CS grads don't work for FAANG, that is true. But people in the CS industry know which CS programs are the best, and they will recruit from there.

That doesn't mean UVA CS grads can't find jobs. Of course not. But, if you want a good CS program, you go to UMD, not UVA.

UVA boosters just can't stand that UMD CS is better than UVA. It's almost pathetic to watch you all and your "both are good schools". You would never say that about other majors. UVA CS is no better than VTech. If they all end up in the same companies, then save yourself $$ and go to VTech.

I greatly enjoy my FANG spouse's pay check so I think I do know he has no issue getting a job and he went to a no name school no one has heard of. After a few years of experience, skill, degree and how you interview are equally important. Funny enough, he's never had an issue getting or keeping a job even when others couldn't. Clearly he's doing something right from his bad CS school. His crummy degree will pay for our kids to get their CS degree to paying cash for it... not to shabby.

That's interesting.. because I (PP) also went to no name, didn't even major in CS but worked for FAANG.

But, it took a lot longer to get there, and I'm thinking it did for your DH (hence the experience needed). We are outliers. The vast majority in FAANG are not from no name state university. I used to live in the Bay Area, too.

Don't know how old your DH is, but back when I worked for FAANG they had a list of acceptable colleges by degree.

Also, one of the FAANG founders went to UMD. None went to UVA. Just so you know.

If you really think it doesn't matter where you go to college for CS, then go to a C rated school and see how you do.

Again, a UVA grad in CS will be able to find a job, just a GMU grad can. So, then why not go to GMU over UVA if the outcome is the same?

A lot of his coworkers are not from fancy schools and many have degrees other than cs. I think it helps for your first job, but it also helps knowing someone who can help you get a job. Go to the school that is the best fit for the student. Skill and interviewing is also important when some companies make you do multiple interviews. We’ve had friends from good schools get turned down for similar jobs. They just did not interview well. Having a clearance helps a lot too.

Well, of course.. FAANG companies hire a lot of people with degrees other than CS.

I don't know about the other FAANGs, but I do know that the one I worked at doesn't care if you know someone there. Your resume goes in the pile, unless you have some amazing achievement that someone pointed out.. like you developed some really great stuff at your previous job or at college.

And yes, interview skills are very important. The FAANG company I worked for asked questions that tested your critical thinking skills and ability to think on the spot, unrelated to CS. These were general mental teaser type questions.

The first job also is a stepping stone to the next job, which leads to it taking longer to get to a FAANG job if you don't have that pedigree.

Most of the people I worked with went to places like Cornell, MIT, Cal... those were the ones who were hired directly. The others who went to lower tiered schools came through a circuitous route, myself included.

In any case, the vast majority of IT workers don't work for a FAANG, so yes, if you are just out for a regular IT job, it doesn't really matter where you graduated from. But, it's a lot harder and takes longer to get a job at FAANG without the pedigree of where you went to school.

Hum. You had to go the circuitous route…funny as my spouse from a no name school got hired quickly after the interviews. Never has an issue getting a job or transferring. But, sure, keep telling yourself it’s all schools. After so many years experience no one cares but you.

Because I'm probably way older than your spouse. I don't care where people went to school. Why would I? I didn't go to a great school, either. My DC is probably going in state.

But, it's not about me or your spouse. It's about the fact that generally, coming out of a great school for that major gives you a better chance to get a higher paying job. And that sets your baseline for your future.

He’s in his very late 50s so no you are just stretching to justify your bad advice. A good school helps but op is asking about two great school choices so it’s not really an issue.

I'm not stretching. I'm also in my 50s. The point is that we are outliers in the FAANG world. If you want to work for a FAANG you have a much higher chance to do so if you go to a strong CS school like UMD.

Again, that doesn't FAANG doesn't hire from no name state u, but your chances are greater if you go to a strong CS school.

Humm... no, maybe your FAANG company but there is a huge mix from 20's all the way up. It may get you a quicker initial hire but in FAANG keeping the job is much harder if its a cut-throat environment as some companies force managers to give bad ratings and weed out one employee even if all are really good and they pressure managers to screw people over for no reason. And, most managers are trying to survive vs. have their employees back.

However, these are both great schools and either way OP child will do well going to either.

well of course. I never said you don't have to be good at your job. But as you noted, it is much easier to get a job at FAANG depending on where you go to school. That was my point.

And I'm now usually the oldest in my team. I feel so old. I could be some of my teammates parent. LOL

Maybe for the first job but not for the following jobs and most job jump every 2-3 years. Lasting at FANG more than 3 years is impressive. My spouse has kids the same age as his co-workers. Some of the co-workers are younger.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Besides CS, UMD is a far superior engineering school. So even if in CS they have options in other related areas such as robotics/industrial engg etc..

+1 UVA boosters are fooling themselves.

Do CS grads from UMD make more money than CS grads from UVA? The answer is no it is pointless to have this discussion.

Overall, yes, actually, they do.

Do CS UVA grads make more than CS VA tech grads? If the answer is no then why pay $$ for UVA when VTech is so much cheaper?

According to statistics they do and yes it does matter where you go to it has an impact on your lifetime earnings.

Ok. statistics are based on those who self-report so many don't self-report. We'd never report that kind of information. Both are excellent schools and OP should be proud. The decision should be personality based off the campus and what the school has to offer.

Then any metric that looks at earnings is questionable.

No, both are not excellent schools for CS. Only UMD is T20. UVA is not. That makes it fine, but not excellent for CS.

Some people like urban areas, and some don't. So why would UVA be better when it's in the middle of nowhere?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, with equal cost, just let your kid to chose where he or she feels they belong. Both programs are great, maybe UMD a higher ranking, but it wont matter in the end of the day if the child is not happy and going to drop it.
I have a child who is graduating from UVA engineering this year (not CS but he has a lot of friends from CS program). All CS kids from my child's group were able to get the jobs they wanted including with Google, Amazon, government military contractors, NASA, SpaceX just a few examples. All of them received these job offers at the end of last summer, almost year before their graduation. Good luck to your kid!

Why do you say it doesn't matter? Presumably, you picked UVA because of its ranking, no?

Presumably, OP's kid could pick UVA, hate it and drop out, right?

A PP who went to UVA for CS probably has better insight into UVA CS than most of us posting here since most of us didn't go to either schools for CS, including your own kid who majored in engineering and not CS.

Sure, UVA CS kids can get jobs, so can GMU CS kids. What's the difference, then?

There is not a huge difference. For a doctor, big law, finance, yes but for cs no. Op child should pick the best fit. Two great schools.

I see. So again, then for CS why not go to GMU rather than UVA? It's cheaper, and probably easier to get into. Outcomes are the same, right?

Because that is not the discussion but GMU would be good too.

If you posted a thread about UVA vs GMU for CS, 99% of people would say UVA hands down.

Only the UVA boosters would say there is no difference between UVA and UMD for CS, that both are great schools "for CS".

Exactly. UVA is not a STEM strong school. UVA boosters think that its overall ranking is more important.

Well, everyone seems to use rankings that favor their argument and discount the ones that don't.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Besides CS, UMD is a far superior engineering school. So even if in CS they have options in other related areas such as robotics/industrial engg etc..

+1 UVA boosters are fooling themselves.

Do CS grads from UMD make more money than CS grads from UVA? The answer is no it is pointless to have this discussion.

Overall, yes, actually, they do.

Do CS UVA grads make more than CS VA tech grads? If the answer is no then why pay $$ for UVA when VTech is so much cheaper?

According to statistics they do and yes it does matter where you go to it has an impact on your lifetime earnings.

Ok. statistics are based on those who self-report so many don't self-report. We'd never report that kind of information. Both are excellent schools and OP should be proud. The decision should be personality based off the campus and what the school has to offer.

Then any metric that looks at earnings is questionable.

No, both are not excellent schools for CS. Only UMD is T20. UVA is not. That makes it fine, but not excellent for CS.

Some people like urban areas, and some don't. So why would UVA be better when it's in the middle of nowhere?

Who cares about those rankings but you. Both very good schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:UMD is more serious.

Here's a basic 4-year plan for UMDCP for a CS major.

https://undergrad.cs.umd.edu/sites/undergrad.cs.umd.edu/files/images/u167/CMSC%2007010%204%20Year%20Plan.pdf

Many would place out of the first two semesters of math and possibly a semester of CS.

In addition, there are several variations on this involving specializations in machine learning or data science etc.

https://undergrad.cs.umd.edu/degree-requirements-cs-major

UVA CS was very rigid when I went there. I'm assuming it hasn't changed. We had a total of 4 electives over four years, and we're required to take 12 hours of physics, 8 hours of chem, 20 something hours of core engineering like thermo, circuits, etc, mostly stuff that has nothing to do with CS. UVA is has an amazing campus, and for most majors it's probably a better choice but for CS I'd go with MD hands down.

Actually it seems UVA CS is more rigorous. Discrete Math, Data Structure and algorithms, Algorithms, Computer Architecture, and Operating Systems are all required classes. Any one of the above could be a weed-out class. It appears at UMD you can get away with just upper level specialty electives and not take some of the above tough classes.

Either you didn't bother to look at or just being purposely deceitful. UMD lower level requirements are Programming I & II, Computer Systems, Discrete Structures, Organization of Languages and Algorithms.

Seriously your UMD boosting is getting ridiculous. Using your own links and post, UMD CS is short on higher level Algorithms and Operating Systems as mandatory classes compared to UVA CS. There isn't that huge of a difference as you made it out to be especially for undergraduates.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Besides CS, UMD is a far superior engineering school. So even if in CS they have options in other related areas such as robotics/industrial engg etc..

+1 UVA boosters are fooling themselves.

Do CS grads from UMD make more money than CS grads from UVA? The answer is no it is pointless to have this discussion.

Overall, yes, actually, they do.

Do CS UVA grads make more than CS VA tech grads? If the answer is no then why pay $$ for UVA when VTech is so much cheaper?

According to statistics they do and yes it does matter where you go to it has an impact on your lifetime earnings.

Ok. statistics are based on those who self-report so many don't self-report. We'd never report that kind of information. Both are excellent schools and OP should be proud. The decision should be personality based off the campus and what the school has to offer.

Then any metric that looks at earnings is questionable.

No, both are not excellent schools for CS. Only UMD is T20. UVA is not. That makes it fine, but not excellent for CS.

Some people like urban areas, and some don't. So why would UVA be better when it's in the middle of nowhere?

Who cares about those rankings but you. Both very good schools.

UVA boosters are always bringing up the rankings.

[Anonymous]

This thread has become silly.

From a local employer perspective, we do not offer more or less salary/options based on where someone went to school. We will offer more if an applicant has specific skills we need. Equal skills from GMU, UVA, or UMD (or others) all get the same offer. We are not FAANG and are not doing web stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has become silly.

From a local employer perspective, we do not offer more or less salary/options based on where someone went to school. We will offer more if an applicant has specific skills we need. Equal skills from GMU, UVA, or UMD (or others) all get the same offer. We are not FAANG and are not doing web stuff.

anything particular about 'web stuff'? since you specifically brought it up

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMD is more serious.

Here's a basic 4-year plan for UMDCP for a CS major.

https://undergrad.cs.umd.edu/sites/undergrad.cs.umd.edu/files/images/u167/CMSC%2007010%204%20Year%20Plan.pdf

Many would place out of the first two semesters of math and possibly a semester of CS.

In addition, there are several variations on this involving specializations in machine learning or data science etc.

https://undergrad.cs.umd.edu/degree-requirements-cs-major

UVA CS was very rigid when I went there. I'm assuming it hasn't changed. We had a total of 4 electives over four years, and we're required to take 12 hours of physics, 8 hours of chem, 20 something hours of core engineering like thermo, circuits, etc, mostly stuff that has nothing to do with CS. UVA is has an amazing campus, and for most majors it's probably a better choice but for CS I'd go with MD hands down.

Actually it seems UVA CS is more rigorous. Discrete Math, Data Structure and algorithms, Algorithms, Computer Architecture, and Operating Systems are all required classes. Any one of the above could be a weed-out class. It appears at UMD you can get away with just upper level specialty electives and not take some of the above tough classes.

Either you didn't bother to look at or just being purposely deceitful. UMD lower level requirements are Programming I & II, Computer Systems, Discrete Structures, Organization of Languages and Algorithms.

Seriously your UMD boosting is getting ridiculous. Using your own links and post, UMD CS is short on higher level Algorithms and Operating Systems as mandatory classes compared to UVA CS. There isn't that huge of a difference as you made it out to be especially for undergraduates.

Ridiculous boosting? My first post on this thread.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Besides CS, UMD is a far superior engineering school. So even if in CS they have options in other related areas such as robotics/industrial engg etc..

+1 UVA boosters are fooling themselves.

Do CS grads from UMD make more money than CS grads from UVA? The answer is no it is pointless to have this discussion.

Overall, yes, actually, they do.

Do CS UVA grads make more than CS VA tech grads? If the answer is no then why pay $$ for UVA when VTech is so much cheaper?

According to statistics they do and yes it does matter where you go to it has an impact on your lifetime earnings.

Ok. statistics are based on those who self-report so many don't self-report. We'd never report that kind of information. Both are excellent schools and OP should be proud. The decision should be personality based off the campus and what the school has to offer.

Then any metric that looks at earnings is questionable.

No, both are not excellent schools for CS. Only UMD is T20. UVA is not. That makes it fine, but not excellent for CS.

Some people like urban areas, and some don't. So why would UVA be better when it's in the middle of nowhere?

Who cares about those rankings but you. Both very good schools.

UVA boosters are always bringing up the rankings.

Most bring up rankings that benefit their school, and disparage rankings that don't benefit their school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, with equal cost, just let your kid to chose where he or she feels they belong. Both programs are great, maybe UMD a higher ranking, but it wont matter in the end of the day if the child is not happy and going to drop it.
I have a child who is graduating from UVA engineering this year (not CS but he has a lot of friends from CS program). All CS kids from my child's group were able to get the jobs they wanted including with Google, Amazon, government military contractors, NASA, SpaceX just a few examples. All of them received these job offers at the end of last summer, almost year before their graduation. Good luck to your kid!

Why do you say it doesn't matter? Presumably, you picked UVA because of its ranking, no?

Presumably, OP's kid could pick UVA, hate it and drop out, right?

A PP who went to UVA for CS probably has better insight into UVA CS than most of us posting here since most of us didn't go to either schools for CS, including your own kid who majored in engineering and not CS.

Sure, UVA CS kids can get jobs, so can GMU CS kids. What's the difference, then?

There is not a huge difference. For a doctor, big law, finance, yes but for cs no. Op child should pick the best fit. Two great schools.

I see. So again, then for CS why not go to GMU rather than UVA? It's cheaper, and probably easier to get into. Outcomes are the same, right?

Because that is not the discussion but GMU would be good too.

If you posted a thread about UVA vs GMU for CS, 99% of people would say UVA hands down.

Only the UVA boosters would say there is no difference between UVA and UMD for CS, that both are great schools "for CS".

Exactly. UVA is not a STEM strong school. UVA boosters think that its overall ranking is more important.

Well, everyone seems to use rankings that favor their argument and discount the ones that don't.

I went to UVA CS because I didn't know any better. I wish I had gone to MD. It's a much better program and you don't have to take a ton of useless engineering classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has become silly.

From a local employer perspective, we do not offer more or less salary/options based on where someone went to school. We will offer more if an applicant has specific skills we need. Equal skills from GMU, UVA, or UMD (or others) all get the same offer. We are not FAANG and are not doing web stuff.

And yet where someone goes to school does impact their lifetime earnings. This is a fact.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Besides CS, UMD is a far superior engineering school. So even if in CS they have options in other related areas such as robotics/industrial engg etc..

+1 UVA boosters are fooling themselves.

Do CS grads from UMD make more money than CS grads from UVA? The answer is no it is pointless to have this discussion.

Overall, yes, actually, they do.

Do CS UVA grads make more than CS VA tech grads? If the answer is no then why pay $$ for UVA when VTech is so much cheaper?

According to statistics they do and yes it does matter where you go to it has an impact on your lifetime earnings.

Ok. statistics are based on those who self-report so many don't self-report. We'd never report that kind of information. Both are excellent schools and OP should be proud. The decision should be personality based off the campus and what the school has to offer.

Then any metric that looks at earnings is questionable.

No, both are not excellent schools for CS. Only UMD is T20. UVA is not. That makes it fine, but not excellent for CS.

Some people like urban areas, and some don't. So why would UVA be better when it's in the middle of nowhere?

Who cares about those rankings but you. Both very good schools.

UVA boosters are always bringing up the rankings.

Actually, they don't. and it was a UMD booster who did it above

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Besides CS, UMD is a far superior engineering school. So even if in CS they have options in other related areas such as robotics/industrial engg etc..

+1 UVA boosters are fooling themselves.

Do CS grads from UMD make more money than CS grads from UVA? The answer is no it is pointless to have this discussion.

Overall, yes, actually, they do.

Do CS UVA grads make more than CS VA tech grads? If the answer is no then why pay $$ for UVA when VTech is so much cheaper?

According to statistics they do and yes it does matter where you go to it has an impact on your lifetime earnings.

Ok. statistics are based on those who self-report so many don't self-report. We'd never report that kind of information. Both are excellent schools and OP should be proud. The decision should be personality based off the campus and what the school has to offer.

Then any metric that looks at earnings is questionable.

No, both are not excellent schools for CS. Only UMD is T20. UVA is not. That makes it fine, but not excellent for CS.

Some people like urban areas, and some don't. So why would UVA be better when [b]it's in the middle of nowhere?[/quote


1) UVA is a great value when in-state Virginian
2) UVA is ranked 25 by USNWR for best national universities. UMD is 55.
3) UVA is ranked no. 3 for public universities in America. UMD is 19.
4) Charlottesville is a great town - lots of fun things to do. Great restaurants. Easy to get around. Easy train to D.C.

So if your child might change majors (mine did), go with UVA. The math is tough, BTW.