De facto "as is"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

Is this by an inspector or chimney/fireplace person? Maybe compromise and get someone who specializes in fireplaces/chimney to look at it.

The furnace is unreasonable if it works. If the roof is not leaking, it's unreasonable. Driveways crack - get some filler and fill it in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not Bait and Switch.

Agree. OP, you’re just flat wrong. There is no obligation on any seller’s part to fix anything. Your remedy is to terminate the contract if it’s not worth it to you. They can come back with things they’re willing to do but that’s a negotiation like anything else. If they either think you’ll cave, or they think they can get their price from someone else, there is no reason for them to negotiate.

I have never fixed anything in a sale other than a “difficult” property where I didn’t have a better alternative. I remember one home where the buyer tried to present 6 figures worth of “repairs” and sounded shocked, shocked that I told them they could just walk away instead.

They came back with zero.

I am prepared to walk.

You should. If the price you agreed is basically market even with the identified issues, you lose. If the house is overpriced via the market with the identified issues, they lose. But in neither event can you force them to do anything or (frankly) did you have a reasonable expectation of it.

These things are hard to judge in this unstable market we are in. But yes, the house just became a worse deal for us. How much worse is a judgment call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

Is this by an inspector or chimney/fireplace person? Maybe compromise and get someone who specializes in fireplaces/chimney to look at it.

The furnace is unreasonable if it works. If the roof is not leaking, it's unreasonable. Driveways crack - get some filler and fill it in.

It was a specialized chimney inspector that my realtor recommended.

[Anonymous]

If you're ready to walk over this, why haven't you done so already?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're ready to walk over this, why haven't you done so already?

Don't want to bug my realtor for a form on Sunday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not Bait and Switch.

Agree. OP, you’re just flat wrong. There is no obligation on any seller’s part to fix anything. Your remedy is to terminate the contract if it’s not worth it to you. They can come back with things they’re willing to do but that’s a negotiation like anything else. If they either think you’ll cave, or they think they can get their price from someone else, there is no reason for them to negotiate.

I have never fixed anything in a sale other than a “difficult” property where I didn’t have a better alternative. I remember one home where the buyer tried to present 6 figures worth of “repairs” and sounded shocked, shocked that I told them they could just walk away instead.

They came back with zero.

I am prepared to walk.

You should. If the price you agreed is basically market even with the identified issues, you lose. If the house is overpriced via the market with the identified issues, they lose. But in neither event can you force them to do anything or (frankly) did you have a reasonable expectation of it.

This is the right perspective. OP, you haven't shared whether the property was priced at a premium or whether the price took the condition of the house into account. We are preparing to list our house later this year and will list as-is with some needed repairs but will price accordingly (our neighborhood is rife with renovations, we are opting to move rather than renovate).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not Bait and Switch.

Agree. OP, you’re just flat wrong. There is no obligation on any seller’s part to fix anything. Your remedy is to terminate the contract if it’s not worth it to you. They can come back with things they’re willing to do but that’s a negotiation like anything else. If they either think you’ll cave, or they think they can get their price from someone else, there is no reason for them to negotiate.

I have never fixed anything in a sale other than a “difficult” property where I didn’t have a better alternative. I remember one home where the buyer tried to present 6 figures worth of “repairs” and sounded shocked, shocked that I told them they could just walk away instead.

They came back with zero.

I am prepared to walk.

You should. If the price you agreed is basically market even with the identified issues, you lose. If the house is overpriced via the market with the identified issues, they lose. But in neither event can you force them to do anything or (frankly) did you have a reasonable expectation of it.

This is the right perspective. OP, you haven't shared whether the property was priced at a premium or whether the price took the condition of the house into account. We are preparing to list our house later this year and will list as-is with some needed repairs but will price accordingly (our neighborhood is rife with renovations, we are opting to move rather than renovate).

With how unstable the market is and how uneven the housing stock is, it is very hard me for me be exactly sure of the price. Seems like a reasonable price for the house, but what do I even compare it to? 2022? 2021? 2020?

If the market keeps racing up over the summer, in retrospect the situation will be perceived like an unfortunate blip in a good purchase

If the market goes down more, I would be kicking myself for not waking away when given a chance

But it is that way for every transaction right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't understand what conclusion you're drawing about NoVa sales.


That I should not rely on inspection for normal minor fixes prior to the sale, but only as a way to back out of a deal if a big problem is found.

In the past, both I as the seller and other sellers would do minor fixes in the house based on inspection report.

I think you are making a sweeping generalization based on this one experience. I know someone who bought recently in VA and the seller put on a whole new roof before the sale. So it really depends on who you are dealing with more than what state or area you are in. Just walk away if you don't like the deal.

If you read this thread, it becomes apparent that sellers do not have an expectation anymore to fix things based on the inspection. It is take it out leave it.

That is not what I expected and the price reflects my expectation. Now the house is overpriced.

It may be the case that the house is overpriced for the state it is in, but you came in hot calling it a “bait and switch” and de facto “as is” sale. You’re acting like some sort of victim that has been defrauded into paying for an inspection. None of those things are true.

You paid for an inspection to potentially save you from purchasing a house with more issues than you realized. That you now want to back out of the sale proves the value of the report. And the fact the sellers will not fix anything is not a conspiracy. Both parties have a right to negotiate, if they don’t want to do any repairs that is well within their rights in the contract and there is nothing bad faith about it. You have the right to pull out.

When we bought our older home we did a “walk and talk” inspection before making an offer. Basically we walked through he home with an inspector and instead of giving us a written report, he pointed out things like age of systems, things needing immediate replacement, etc. We then made our offer based on that knowledge. That might be a better option for you.

Oh, definitely! That is the plan moving forward. Why bother with the costly official report is nothing financial is gained by it.

But if you avoid making a six (seven?) figure purchase mistake, then I would say the few hundred dollars on a report is worth it. A home inspection report is much cheaper than buying a money pit house!

My point was that doing a more informal pre inspection will allow you to factor those things into your offer so you don’t have to negotiate after the fact.

[Anonymous]

(it is much easier to do a market analysis on townhouses than on older homes in older neighborhoods. Some have additions or renovations that change their prices.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't understand what conclusion you're drawing about NoVa sales.


That I should not rely on inspection for normal minor fixes prior to the sale, but only as a way to back out of a deal if a big problem is found.

In the past, both I as the seller and other sellers would do minor fixes in the house based on inspection report.

I think you are making a sweeping generalization based on this one experience. I know someone who bought recently in VA and the seller put on a whole new roof before the sale. So it really depends on who you are dealing with more than what state or area you are in. Just walk away if you don't like the deal.

If you read this thread, it becomes apparent that sellers do not have an expectation anymore to fix things based on the inspection. It is take it out leave it.

That is not what I expected and the price reflects my expectation. Now the house is overpriced.

It may be the case that the house is overpriced for the state it is in, but you came in hot calling it a “bait and switch” and de facto “as is” sale. You’re acting like some sort of victim that has been defrauded into paying for an inspection. None of those things are true.

You paid for an inspection to potentially save you from purchasing a house with more issues than you realized. That you now want to back out of the sale proves the value of the report. And the fact the sellers will not fix anything is not a conspiracy. Both parties have a right to negotiate, if they don’t want to do any repairs that is well within their rights in the contract and there is nothing bad faith about it. You have the right to pull out.

When we bought our older home we did a “walk and talk” inspection before making an offer. Basically we walked through he home with an inspector and instead of giving us a written report, he pointed out things like age of systems, things needing immediate replacement, etc. We then made our offer based on that knowledge. That might be a better option for you.

Oh, definitely! That is the plan moving forward. Why bother with the costly official report is nothing financial is gained by it.

But if you avoid making a six (seven?) figure purchase mistake, then I would say the few hundred dollars on a report is worth it. A home inspection report is much cheaper than buying a money pit house!

My point was that doing a more informal pre inspection will allow you to factor those things into your offer so you don’t have to negotiate after the fact.

I think your approach was the correct one for this area! I will do that next time if I decide to buy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

Why would you "leave be" a furnace with a cracked pipe that can leak carbon monoxide? You keep changing your story, which makes the whole tale smell quite a bit.

I assumed I can just change the pipe. We did something similar on our first house, just changed the pipe that was running at the wrong angle, and left the furnace be.

Then why did you say in your first post that you needed to replace the furnace as part of the inspection/negotiation?

Inspector report recommended replacing the furnace and noted also a faulty pipe leading from the furnace. Of course my preference is to replace both, but that is where negotiations come in.

Sounds like zero wrong with house

[Anonymous]

Specialized inspectors are scams. I had a mold guy come to my house once after water damage. He wanted to rip out who kitchen and etc. charge me 75k.

I realized it was exterior wall behind behind cabinets and I have Vinyl siding, I bought a ten dollar tool Home Depot, popped siding behind kitchen, removed some wood and was not even wet. I then just removed kick plates, ran dehumidify did some mold spray.

A $50 dollar cost vs. 75k. I called guy back and said hey I throw out high prices so what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't get over the furnace. LOL. Why not just ask for a brand new roof while you are at it.

Agree, and this is probably why the sellers came back as a hard no to all of OP’s requests. Anyone who expects something to be preemptively replaced just because it’s “old” loses their credibility and seems difficult to deal with. No one in their right mind is just going to buy you a new furnace (roof/appliances/etc.) just because you wish you were buying a house with a new one. That was a pretty egregious ask and frankly I’m shocked your realtor didn’t talk you out of asking for that. Also, sellers aren’t paying to bring older homes up to code. You should have known based on the age of the house that it would not be built to modern day code and that means it’s grandfathered in unless some sort of construction is done. Again, no one is bringing an old house up to modern day code because you wish that you were buying something up to the standards of new construction.

If you had gone in more reasonably, maybe you could have asked for the deck repair (since that is the type of hidden safety issue that an inspection is meant to catch).

You are the one who bait and switched the sellers by deciding you want to pay for an older home, but that you expect it to be like brand new.

This. I was on the other end of this kind of offer, and it was such a disappointment to think we had a solid offer and then have the buyer ask for tens of thousands of dollars in concessions for things were older but still working and in good condition. New roof, new heating system, etc. No way. Just because the inspector flags it doesn't mean it's appropriate to ask for it to be replaced. It's information for you to have as the homeowner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't get over the furnace. LOL. Why not just ask for a brand new roof while you are at it.

Agree, and this is probably why the sellers came back as a hard no to all of OP’s requests. Anyone who expects something to be preemptively replaced just because it’s “old” loses their credibility and seems difficult to deal with. No one in their right mind is just going to buy you a new furnace (roof/appliances/etc.) just because you wish you were buying a house with a new one. That was a pretty egregious ask and frankly I’m shocked your realtor didn’t talk you out of asking for that. Also, sellers aren’t paying to bring older homes up to code. You should have known based on the age of the house that it would not be built to modern day code and that means it’s grandfathered in unless some sort of construction is done. Again, no one is bringing an old house up to modern day code because you wish that you were buying something up to the standards of new construction.

If you had gone in more reasonably, maybe you could have asked for the deck repair (since that is the type of hidden safety issue that an inspection is meant to catch).

You are the one who bait and switched the sellers by deciding you want to pay for an older home, but that you expect it to be like brand new.

This. I was on the other end of this kind of offer, and it was such a disappointment to think we had a solid offer and then have the buyer ask for tens of thousands of dollars in concessions for things were older but still working and in good condition. New roof, new heating system, etc. No way. Just because the inspector flags it doesn't mean it's appropriate to ask for it to be replaced. It's information for you to have as the homeowner.

Well, the reason your offer was so solid is because your buyer expected some concessions in the inspection process.

What ended up happening?

[Anonymous]

My FIL had same issue he put in wood burning stove. He just went to Home Depot they sell exterior metal chimneys. He ran chimney up exterior of house and connected it to wood burning stove. Did it himself one day.

They all sell those as inserts you put down existing chimney. Maybe hang out Home Depot make friends a real man who can help you out.