What did Northern Virginia look like back in the day (60s, 70s, 80s)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the PPs here, but a few more observations I'll add.

- Until the 1970s, everything was very low-rise. Then the mid-rise office buildings in Tysons Corner and apartments kind of along 395 started going in.

- Arlington, I don't remember ever being a bad area, but it wasn't desirable. If you moved up in the world, you moved to McLean or Fairfax Station. Arlington has always been expensive though. My parents priced out a houses off Route 50 in the 90s (basic brick houses, nothing fancy) and they were in the mid-300K range even back then.

- However, when the Rotonda condos opened in Tysons Corner in the 70s, that was the "it" address to have if you were a Nova yuppie.

- Being a civil servant was a big thing, but the whole contractor industry didn't really start booming until the 90s, and then soared after 9/11. Before then, you could easily go your entire fed career and not encounter a contractor, particularly if you weren't in DoD.

- Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it was always expensive to live here compared to most of the rest of the country. My grandparents bought their Great Falls split level in 1962 for around $40K, which was an insane stretch for them, and that's all they could afford at the time. They had wanted to buy in Arlington for a better commute to the District but couldn't afford it. A decade later their Great Falls house was already worth $150K and the neighbors started being diplomats, executives, etc. When my aunts and uncles started their families, all they could afford was way out in Gainesville or Sterling, and this was 30-40 years ago. Never in my lifetime has anyone thought that the DC area was cheap to live in.

- I don't remember anyone, family or friends, ever talking about the "lost cause" or revising history to justify the south. I certainly wasn't around it growing up. We all called it the "Civil War" and not the "War of Northern Aggression" and school taught that slavery was evil and that the south fought for the right to keep slaves. I remember some my cousins having confederate flag stuff like bumper stickers (mind you, I'm talking 30+ years ago), but it was never really in your face in public.

- Nova was very white, had some pockets of black (mostly in Alexandria), and that was basically it until the 1980s. There was a big Iranian influx after the Shah was deposed. But the thing I think has changed the most is not the demographics, it's the land use. This used to be a sleepy, rural region, and it's amazing to see it now be a bustling, diverse, cosmopolitain place. I think the changes have been positive, which leads me to my last point.

- Traffic has ALWAYS been the pits. Yes, it's gotten worse, but in my lifetime it's always been the bane of the Nova drivers' existence.

I never heard War of Northern Aggression but I was absolutely taught,. As a student at Holy Spirit school in the 80s that the Civil War was about states rights and not slavery.

PP here. So we are from sort of the same era, and I was taught that the Civil War was fought to protect state's rights as well, with the nuance that the primary right the southern states were fighting for was to protect slavery and their slave-based economy. I compare that to what I've heard about the Deep South teaching that slavery had absolutely nothing to do with the war, that slaves were happy and loyal workers who wanted to "protect their masters," that slaves didn't want the war, etc. That sort of insane revisionist history I never heard about in Nova.

FWIW, I moved out west for part of high school and they taught the same "states rights" primary narrative out there too (no lost cause stuff though).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the PPs here, but a few more observations I'll add.

- Until the 1970s, everything was very low-rise. Then the mid-rise office buildings in Tysons Corner and apartments kind of along 395 started going in.

- Arlington, I don't remember ever being a bad area, but it wasn't desirable. If you moved up in the world, you moved to McLean or Fairfax Station. Arlington has always been expensive though. My parents priced out a houses off Route 50 in the 90s (basic brick houses, nothing fancy) and they were in the mid-300K range even back then.

- However, when the Rotonda condos opened in Tysons Corner in the 70s, that was the "it" address to have if you were a Nova yuppie.

- Being a civil servant was a big thing, but the whole contractor industry didn't really start booming until the 90s, and then soared after 9/11. Before then, you could easily go your entire fed career and not encounter a contractor, particularly if you weren't in DoD.

- Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it was always expensive to live here compared to most of the rest of the country. My grandparents bought their Great Falls split level in 1962 for around $40K, which was an insane stretch for them, and that's all they could afford at the time. They had wanted to buy in Arlington for a better commute to the District but couldn't afford it. A decade later their Great Falls house was already worth $150K and the neighbors started being diplomats, executives, etc. When my aunts and uncles started their families, all they could afford was way out in Gainesville or Sterling, and this was 30-40 years ago. Never in my lifetime has anyone thought that the DC area was cheap to live in.

- I don't remember anyone, family or friends, ever talking about the "lost cause" or revising history to justify the south. I certainly wasn't around it growing up. We all called it the "Civil War" and not the "War of Northern Aggression" and school taught that slavery was evil and that the south fought for the right to keep slaves. I remember some my cousins having confederate flag stuff like bumper stickers (mind you, I'm talking 30+ years ago), but it was never really in your face in public.

- Nova was very white, had some pockets of black (mostly in Alexandria), and that was basically it until the 1980s. There was a big Iranian influx after the Shah was deposed. But the thing I think has changed the most is not the demographics, it's the land use. This used to be a sleepy, rural region, and it's amazing to see it now be a bustling, diverse, cosmopolitain place. I think the changes have been positive, which leads me to my last point.

- Traffic has ALWAYS been the pits. Yes, it's gotten worse, but in my lifetime it's always been the bane of the Nova drivers' existence.

I'm going to edit you a little - please don't take offense.

The contractors started arriving in large numbers in the 80s with Reagan because the philosophy at the time was that the government should do less on its own and procure more from the private sector. The primary reason there is a TJHSST now is that the Republican Board of Supervisors thought it would help attract contractors to office parks in Fairfax, rather than Arlington or MoCo, if Fairfax could tout its special "science and technology" school. To be sure it just kept exploding in the 90s, especially along the Dulles Toll Road and Route 28.

Agree that NoVa mostly felt very White/Black until the 80s, but there were Black neighborhoods scattered throughout the county, including in Falls Church as well as Alexandria. By the mid to late 70s there were a significant number of Korean immigrants, along with the Vietnamese who arrived after the fall of Saigon and the Iranians who arrived in the years leading up to and after the overthrow of the Shah. Most of the Hispanics I went to school with in the 70s were the children of well educated Cuban refugees - it wasn't until the 80s that Central/South Americans from El Salvador and other countries began to arrive in large numbers.

No offense taken at all, I agree with what you wrote. You are very right about the scattered black pockets, which were probably established by freed people post slavery, and your other observations about the demographic changes are spot on.

Virginia had de facto redlining, racial covenants, and housing segregation long after DC and MD. Virginia essentially forced its black residents to move to Maryland, as their kids could be safer and get a better education. The racial composition of NoVA prior to the 1970s was very intentional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the PPs here, but a few more observations I'll add.

- Until the 1970s, everything was very low-rise. Then the mid-rise office buildings in Tysons Corner and apartments kind of along 395 started going in.

- Arlington, I don't remember ever being a bad area, but it wasn't desirable. If you moved up in the world, you moved to McLean or Fairfax Station. Arlington has always been expensive though. My parents priced out a houses off Route 50 in the 90s (basic brick houses, nothing fancy) and they were in the mid-300K range even back then.

- However, when the Rotonda condos opened in Tysons Corner in the 70s, that was the "it" address to have if you were a Nova yuppie.

- Being a civil servant was a big thing, but the whole contractor industry didn't really start booming until the 90s, and then soared after 9/11. Before then, you could easily go your entire fed career and not encounter a contractor, particularly if you weren't in DoD.

- Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it was always expensive to live here compared to most of the rest of the country. My grandparents bought their Great Falls split level in 1962 for around $40K, which was an insane stretch for them, and that's all they could afford at the time. They had wanted to buy in Arlington for a better commute to the District but couldn't afford it. A decade later their Great Falls house was already worth $150K and the neighbors started being diplomats, executives, etc. When my aunts and uncles started their families, all they could afford was way out in Gainesville or Sterling, and this was 30-40 years ago. Never in my lifetime has anyone thought that the DC area was cheap to live in.

- I don't remember anyone, family or friends, ever talking about the "lost cause" or revising history to justify the south. I certainly wasn't around it growing up. We all called it the "Civil War" and not the "War of Northern Aggression" and school taught that slavery was evil and that the south fought for the right to keep slaves. I remember some my cousins having confederate flag stuff like bumper stickers (mind you, I'm talking 30+ years ago), but it was never really in your face in public.

- Nova was very white, had some pockets of black (mostly in Alexandria), and that was basically it until the 1980s. There was a big Iranian influx after the Shah was deposed. But the thing I think has changed the most is not the demographics, it's the land use. This used to be a sleepy, rural region, and it's amazing to see it now be a bustling, diverse, cosmopolitain place. I think the changes have been positive, which leads me to my last point.

- Traffic has ALWAYS been the pits. Yes, it's gotten worse, but in my lifetime it's always been the bane of the Nova drivers' existence.

I never heard War of Northern Aggression but I was absolutely taught,. As a student at Holy Spirit school in the 80s that the Civil War was about states rights and not slavery.

PP here. So we are from sort of the same era, and I was taught that the Civil War was fought to protect state's rights as well, with the nuance that the primary right the southern states were fighting for was to protect slavery and their slave-based economy. I compare that to what I've heard about the Deep South teaching that slavery had absolutely nothing to do with the war, that slaves were happy and loyal workers who wanted to "protect their masters," that slaves didn't want the war, etc. That sort of insane revisionist history I never heard about in Nova.

FWIW, I moved out west for part of high school and they taught the same "states rights" primary narrative out there too (no lost cause stuff though).

NP. I appreciate your insightful comments, but just wanted to mention that the lost cause included talking about the conflict in terms of "states rights" in order to muddy the water. As PP states, the primary "states right" that was fought for was right to own slaves. Of course, no mention is ever made of the North's fight for states rights, for example not to have to send escaped slaves back to the South under the Fugitive Slave Act. The Confederacy didn't mind overriding those states' rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when Alexandria & Arlington were so bad that you could get shot or mugged

+1

Definitely. Arlington was always very dumpy, and Old Town had a small nice spot, but mostly subsidized housing.

Manassas was about as hick as you could get.

I am still sort of surprised that Arlington is now considered desirable, when most of it was historically pretty dumpy.

Proximity to the physical center of one of the world’s super powers?

The fact that it was “dumpy” was an aberration of history.

You don’t think PG County in MD is dumpy? Argue by closer to DC than arlington, and I know many families who would never move there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when Alexandria & Arlington were so bad that you could get shot or mugged

+1

Definitely. Arlington was always very dumpy, and Old Town had a small nice spot, but mostly subsidized housing.

Manassas was about as hick as you could get.

I am still sort of surprised that Arlington is now considered desirable, when most of it was historically pretty dumpy.

Proximity to the physical center of one of the world’s super powers?

The fact that it was “dumpy” was an aberration of history.

You don’t think PG County in MD is dumpy? Argue by closer to DC than arlington, and I know many families who would never move there.

It depends on one's point of reference, I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the PPs here, but a few more observations I'll add.

- Until the 1970s, everything was very low-rise. Then the mid-rise office buildings in Tysons Corner and apartments kind of along 395 started going in.

- Arlington, I don't remember ever being a bad area, but it wasn't desirable. If you moved up in the world, you moved to McLean or Fairfax Station. Arlington has always been expensive though. My parents priced out a houses off Route 50 in the 90s (basic brick houses, nothing fancy) and they were in the mid-300K range even back then.

- However, when the Rotonda condos opened in Tysons Corner in the 70s, that was the "it" address to have if you were a Nova yuppie.

- Being a civil servant was a big thing, but the whole contractor industry didn't really start booming until the 90s, and then soared after 9/11. Before then, you could easily go your entire fed career and not encounter a contractor, particularly if you weren't in DoD.

- Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it was always expensive to live here compared to most of the rest of the country. My grandparents bought their Great Falls split level in 1962 for around $40K, which was an insane stretch for them, and that's all they could afford at the time. They had wanted to buy in Arlington for a better commute to the District but couldn't afford it. A decade later their Great Falls house was already worth $150K and the neighbors started being diplomats, executives, etc. When my aunts and uncles started their families, all they could afford was way out in Gainesville or Sterling, and this was 30-40 years ago. Never in my lifetime has anyone thought that the DC area was cheap to live in.

- I don't remember anyone, family or friends, ever talking about the "lost cause" or revising history to justify the south. I certainly wasn't around it growing up. We all called it the "Civil War" and not the "War of Northern Aggression" and school taught that slavery was evil and that the south fought for the right to keep slaves. I remember some my cousins having confederate flag stuff like bumper stickers (mind you, I'm talking 30+ years ago), but it was never really in your face in public.

- Nova was very white, had some pockets of black (mostly in Alexandria), and that was basically it until the 1980s. There was a big Iranian influx after the Shah was deposed. But the thing I think has changed the most is not the demographics, it's the land use. This used to be a sleepy, rural region, and it's amazing to see it now be a bustling, diverse, cosmopolitain place. I think the changes have been positive, which leads me to my last point.

- Traffic has ALWAYS been the pits. Yes, it's gotten worse, but in my lifetime it's always been the bane of the Nova drivers' existence.

I'm going to edit you a little - please don't take offense.

The contractors started arriving in large numbers in the 80s with Reagan because the philosophy at the time was that the government should do less on its own and procure more from the private sector. The primary reason there is a TJHSST now is that the Republican Board of Supervisors thought it would help attract contractors to office parks in Fairfax, rather than Arlington or MoCo, if Fairfax could tout its special "science and technology" school. To be sure it just kept exploding in the 90s, especially along the Dulles Toll Road and Route 28.

Agree that NoVa mostly felt very White/Black until the 80s, but there were Black neighborhoods scattered throughout the county, including in Falls Church as well as Alexandria. By the mid to late 70s there were a significant number of Korean immigrants, along with the Vietnamese who arrived after the fall of Saigon and the Iranians who arrived in the years leading up to and after the overthrow of the Shah. Most of the Hispanics I went to school with in the 70s were the children of well educated Cuban refugees - it wasn't until the 80s that Central/South Americans from El Salvador and other countries began to arrive in large numbers.

+1

South Arlington had a large black population in the 70's - 80's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the PPs here, but a few more observations I'll add.

- Until the 1970s, everything was very low-rise. Then the mid-rise office buildings in Tysons Corner and apartments kind of along 395 started going in.

- Arlington, I don't remember ever being a bad area, but it wasn't desirable. If you moved up in the world, you moved to McLean or Fairfax Station. Arlington has always been expensive though. My parents priced out a houses off Route 50 in the 90s (basic brick houses, nothing fancy) and they were in the mid-300K range even back then.

- However, when the Rotonda condos opened in Tysons Corner in the 70s, that was the "it" address to have if you were a Nova yuppie.

- Being a civil servant was a big thing, but the whole contractor industry didn't really start booming until the 90s, and then soared after 9/11. Before then, you could easily go your entire fed career and not encounter a contractor, particularly if you weren't in DoD.

- Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it was always expensive to live here compared to most of the rest of the country. My grandparents bought their Great Falls split level in 1962 for around $40K, which was an insane stretch for them, and that's all they could afford at the time. They had wanted to buy in Arlington for a better commute to the District but couldn't afford it. A decade later their Great Falls house was already worth $150K and the neighbors started being diplomats, executives, etc. When my aunts and uncles started their families, all they could afford was way out in Gainesville or Sterling, and this was 30-40 years ago. Never in my lifetime has anyone thought that the DC area was cheap to live in.

- I don't remember anyone, family or friends, ever talking about the "lost cause" or revising history to justify the south. I certainly wasn't around it growing up. We all called it the "Civil War" and not the "War of Northern Aggression" and school taught that slavery was evil and that the south fought for the right to keep slaves. I remember some my cousins having confederate flag stuff like bumper stickers (mind you, I'm talking 30+ years ago), but it was never really in your face in public.

- Nova was very white, had some pockets of black (mostly in Alexandria), and that was basically it until the 1980s. There was a big Iranian influx after the Shah was deposed. But the thing I think has changed the most is not the demographics, it's the land use. This used to be a sleepy, rural region, and it's amazing to see it now be a bustling, diverse, cosmopolitain place. I think the changes have been positive, which leads me to my last point.

- Traffic has ALWAYS been the pits. Yes, it's gotten worse, but in my lifetime it's always been the bane of the Nova drivers' existence.

I'm going to edit you a little - please don't take offense.

The contractors started arriving in large numbers in the 80s with Reagan because the philosophy at the time was that the government should do less on its own and procure more from the private sector. The primary reason there is a TJHSST now is that the Republican Board of Supervisors thought it would help attract contractors to office parks in Fairfax, rather than Arlington or MoCo, if Fairfax could tout its special "science and technology" school. To be sure it just kept exploding in the 90s, especially along the Dulles Toll Road and Route 28.

Agree that NoVa mostly felt very White/Black until the 80s, but there were Black neighborhoods scattered throughout the county, including in Falls Church as well as Alexandria. By the mid to late 70s there were a significant number of Korean immigrants, along with the Vietnamese who arrived after the fall of Saigon and the Iranians who arrived in the years leading up to and after the overthrow of the Shah. Most of the Hispanics I went to school with in the 70s were the children of well educated Cuban refugees - it wasn't until the 80s that Central/South Americans from El Salvador and other countries began to arrive in large numbers.

No offense taken at all, I agree with what you wrote. You are very right about the scattered black pockets, which were probably established by freed people post slavery, and your other observations about the demographic changes are spot on.

Virginia had de facto redlining, racial covenants, and housing segregation long after DC and MD. Virginia essentially forced its black residents to move to Maryland, as their kids could be safer and get a better education. The racial composition of NoVA prior to the 1970s was very intentional.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grew up here in the 70s and 80s. It was not southern. It was not as diverse as it is now but my schools had a lot of Asian kids and there were lots of military and state dept families that had lived overseas. It was not at all southern.

That’s my memory too, but a couple of years ago I saw an FCPS video from the 80s that included interviews with teachers at my ES. My mind was blown because so many of them had accents that I did not remember.

I grew up in northern California in a pretty liberal area and came east to college. I dated a very sweet guy who had gone to HS in Alexandria (then, TC Williams; now, Alexandria City HS). Culturally and politically, his family and friends were pretty similar to my family and friends. Neither he nor any of his HS friends had a southern accent. When I visited Alexandria one summer, we went to dinner at the home of one of his HS teachers, who was Black and whose girlfriend was White.

[Anonymous]

I was taught a lot of states rights, yes slavery was bad but most slave owners took careful care of their slaves because they kept the plantations running, slaves were loyal to their owners, etc. stuff in the small town Midwest (like the upper/industrial/city Midwest, not the farm Midwest) in history class in the 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the PPs here, but a few more observations I'll add.

- Until the 1970s, everything was very low-rise. Then the mid-rise office buildings in Tysons Corner and apartments kind of along 395 started going in.

- Arlington, I don't remember ever being a bad area, but it wasn't desirable. If you moved up in the world, you moved to McLean or Fairfax Station. Arlington has always been expensive though. My parents priced out a houses off Route 50 in the 90s (basic brick houses, nothing fancy) and they were in the mid-300K range even back then.

- However, when the Rotonda condos opened in Tysons Corner in the 70s, that was the "it" address to have if you were a Nova yuppie.

- Being a civil servant was a big thing, but the whole contractor industry didn't really start booming until the 90s, and then soared after 9/11. Before then, you could easily go your entire fed career and not encounter a contractor, particularly if you weren't in DoD.

- Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it was always expensive to live here compared to most of the rest of the country. My grandparents bought their Great Falls split level in 1962 for around $40K, which was an insane stretch for them, and that's all they could afford at the time. They had wanted to buy in Arlington for a better commute to the District but couldn't afford it. A decade later their Great Falls house was already worth $150K and the neighbors started being diplomats, executives, etc. When my aunts and uncles started their families, all they could afford was way out in Gainesville or Sterling, and this was 30-40 years ago. Never in my lifetime has anyone thought that the DC area was cheap to live in.

- I don't remember anyone, family or friends, ever talking about the "lost cause" or revising history to justify the south. I certainly wasn't around it growing up. We all called it the "Civil War" and not the "War of Northern Aggression" and school taught that slavery was evil and that the south fought for the right to keep slaves. I remember some my cousins having confederate flag stuff like bumper stickers (mind you, I'm talking 30+ years ago), but it was never really in your face in public.

- Nova was very white, had some pockets of black (mostly in Alexandria), and that was basically it until the 1980s. There was a big Iranian influx after the Shah was deposed. But the thing I think has changed the most is not the demographics, it's the land use. This used to be a sleepy, rural region, and it's amazing to see it now be a bustling, diverse, cosmopolitain place. I think the changes have been positive, which leads me to my last point.

- Traffic has ALWAYS been the pits. Yes, it's gotten worse, but in my lifetime it's always been the bane of the Nova drivers' existence.

I never heard War of Northern Aggression but I was absolutely taught,. As a student at Holy Spirit school in the 80s that the Civil War was about states rights and not slavery.

PP here. So we are from sort of the same era, and I was taught that the Civil War was fought to protect state's rights as well, with the nuance that the primary right the southern states were fighting for was to protect slavery and their slave-based economy. I compare that to what I've heard about the Deep South teaching that slavery had absolutely nothing to do with the war, that slaves were happy and loyal workers who wanted to "protect their masters," that slaves didn't want the war, etc. That sort of insane revisionist history I never heard about in Nova.

FWIW, I moved out west for part of high school and they taught the same "states rights" primary narrative out there too (no lost cause stuff though).

I went to high school in South Carolina and was taught state rights, but not the part about the slaves wanting to protect their masters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the PPs here, but a few more observations I'll add.

- Until the 1970s, everything was very low-rise. Then the mid-rise office buildings in Tysons Corner and apartments kind of along 395 started going in.

- Arlington, I don't remember ever being a bad area, but it wasn't desirable. If you moved up in the world, you moved to McLean or Fairfax Station. Arlington has always been expensive though. My parents priced out a houses off Route 50 in the 90s (basic brick houses, nothing fancy) and they were in the mid-300K range even back then.

- However, when the Rotonda condos opened in Tysons Corner in the 70s, that was the "it" address to have if you were a Nova yuppie.

- Being a civil servant was a big thing, but the whole contractor industry didn't really start booming until the 90s, and then soared after 9/11. Before then, you could easily go your entire fed career and not encounter a contractor, particularly if you weren't in DoD.

- Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it was always expensive to live here compared to most of the rest of the country. My grandparents bought their Great Falls split level in 1962 for around $40K, which was an insane stretch for them, and that's all they could afford at the time. They had wanted to buy in Arlington for a better commute to the District but couldn't afford it. A decade later their Great Falls house was already worth $150K and the neighbors started being diplomats, executives, etc. When my aunts and uncles started their families, all they could afford was way out in Gainesville or Sterling, and this was 30-40 years ago. Never in my lifetime has anyone thought that the DC area was cheap to live in.

- I don't remember anyone, family or friends, ever talking about the "lost cause" or revising history to justify the south. I certainly wasn't around it growing up. We all called it the "Civil War" and not the "War of Northern Aggression" and school taught that slavery was evil and that the south fought for the right to keep slaves. I remember some my cousins having confederate flag stuff like bumper stickers (mind you, I'm talking 30+ years ago), but it was never really in your face in public.

- Nova was very white, had some pockets of black (mostly in Alexandria), and that was basically it until the 1980s. There was a big Iranian influx after the Shah was deposed. But the thing I think has changed the most is not the demographics, it's the land use. This used to be a sleepy, rural region, and it's amazing to see it now be a bustling, diverse, cosmopolitain place. I think the changes have been positive, which leads me to my last point.

- Traffic has ALWAYS been the pits. Yes, it's gotten worse, but in my lifetime it's always been the bane of the Nova drivers' existence.

I'm going to edit you a little - please don't take offense.

The contractors started arriving in large numbers in the 80s with Reagan because the philosophy at the time was that the government should do less on its own and procure more from the private sector. The primary reason there is a TJHSST now is that the Republican Board of Supervisors thought it would help attract contractors to office parks in Fairfax, rather than Arlington or MoCo, if Fairfax could tout its special "science and technology" school. To be sure it just kept exploding in the 90s, especially along the Dulles Toll Road and Route 28.

Agree that NoVa mostly felt very White/Black until the 80s, but there were Black neighborhoods scattered throughout the county, including in Falls Church as well as Alexandria. By the mid to late 70s there were a significant number of Korean immigrants, along with the Vietnamese who arrived after the fall of Saigon and the Iranians who arrived in the years leading up to and after the overthrow of the Shah. Most of the Hispanics I went to school with in the 70s were the children of well educated Cuban refugees - it wasn't until the 80s that Central/South Americans from El Salvador and other countries began to arrive in large numbers.

No offense taken at all, I agree with what you wrote. You are very right about the scattered black pockets, which were probably established by freed people post slavery, and your other observations about the demographic changes are spot on.

Virginia had de facto redlining, racial covenants, and housing segregation long after DC and MD. Virginia essentially forced its black residents to move to Maryland, as their kids could be safer and get a better education. The racial composition of NoVA prior to the 1970s was very intentional.

I'm not sure this holds up as a historical matter. Racial covenants were declared unenforceable in 1948, but persisted in deeds well into the late 1960s before being declared illegal in the Fair Housing Act, which was federal legislation equally applicable to Maryland and Virginia. So not sure the big increase in Black residents in suburban Maryland was due to people moving from Virginia to Maryland so much as people moving from DC to Maryland and Black Americans generally feeling like Maryland, having not formally been part of the Confederacy, would be more hospitable.

Relatedly, will echo those who note the teaching about slavery and the Civil War in NoVa public schools was slanted and biased towards an uncritical "states rights" perspective and lack of reckoning with the conditions under which slaves lived for way too long. Having said that, never heard the Civil War referred to as the "War of Northern Aggression" until classmates came back from schools like UVA and Duke and reported this was how some classmates from further south referred to the war (this is from the early 80s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when Alexandria & Arlington were so bad that you could get shot or mugged

+1

Definitely. Arlington was always very dumpy, and Old Town had a small nice spot, but mostly subsidized housing.

Manassas was about as hick as you could get.

Del Ray was absolutely undesirable

Aka there were black people there.

Nope. Been in ALX since '71 qnd Del Ray was poor whites and low blue collar eveyone else.

Del Ray really is a remarkable story but looking back it is a no brainer. You had under priced SFHs sitting on large lots (for a city) all walking distance to a metro and just across the river from DC. It's bonkers to think it was slummy for so long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the PPs here, but a few more observations I'll add.

- Until the 1970s, everything was very low-rise. Then the mid-rise office buildings in Tysons Corner and apartments kind of along 395 started going in.

- Arlington, I don't remember ever being a bad area, but it wasn't desirable. If you moved up in the world, you moved to McLean or Fairfax Station. Arlington has always been expensive though. My parents priced out a houses off Route 50 in the 90s (basic brick houses, nothing fancy) and they were in the mid-300K range even back then.

- However, when the Rotonda condos opened in Tysons Corner in the 70s, that was the "it" address to have if you were a Nova yuppie.

- Being a civil servant was a big thing, but the whole contractor industry didn't really start booming until the 90s, and then soared after 9/11. Before then, you could easily go your entire fed career and not encounter a contractor, particularly if you weren't in DoD.

- Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it was always expensive to live here compared to most of the rest of the country. My grandparents bought their Great Falls split level in 1962 for around $40K, which was an insane stretch for them, and that's all they could afford at the time. They had wanted to buy in Arlington for a better commute to the District but couldn't afford it. A decade later their Great Falls house was already worth $150K and the neighbors started being diplomats, executives, etc. When my aunts and uncles started their families, all they could afford was way out in Gainesville or Sterling, and this was 30-40 years ago. Never in my lifetime has anyone thought that the DC area was cheap to live in.

- I don't remember anyone, family or friends, ever talking about the "lost cause" or revising history to justify the south. I certainly wasn't around it growing up. We all called it the "Civil War" and not the "War of Northern Aggression" and school taught that slavery was evil and that the south fought for the right to keep slaves. I remember some my cousins having confederate flag stuff like bumper stickers (mind you, I'm talking 30+ years ago), but it was never really in your face in public.

- Nova was very white, had some pockets of black (mostly in Alexandria), and that was basically it until the 1980s. There was a big Iranian influx after the Shah was deposed. But the thing I think has changed the most is not the demographics, it's the land use. This used to be a sleepy, rural region, and it's amazing to see it now be a bustling, diverse, cosmopolitain place. I think the changes have been positive, which leads me to my last point.

- Traffic has ALWAYS been the pits. Yes, it's gotten worse, but in my lifetime it's always been the bane of the Nova drivers' existence.

I never heard War of Northern Aggression but I was absolutely taught,. As a student at Holy Spirit school in the 80s that the Civil War was about states rights and not slavery.

PP here. So we are from sort of the same era, and I was taught that the Civil War was fought to protect state's rights as well, with the nuance that the primary right the southern states were fighting for was to protect slavery and their slave-based economy. I compare that to what I've heard about the Deep South teaching that slavery had absolutely nothing to do with the war, that slaves were happy and loyal workers who wanted to "protect their masters," that slaves didn't want the war, etc. That sort of insane revisionist history I never heard about in Nova.

FWIW, I moved out west for part of high school and they taught the same "states rights" primary narrative out there too (no lost cause stuff though).

I went to high school in South Carolina and was taught state rights, but not the part about the slaves wanting to protect their masters

Not to get us off topic, but like most of history, you can't whittle down complex historical issues to just two words, be it "state's rights" or "abolish slavery." Neither simplistic narrative is accurate.

[Anonymous]

Fairfax County was mostly farms at one time. Crazy.

[Anonymous]

There was no beltway, no 66, no dulles toll road, no metro, no malls. Prostitutes walked on 14th st, lots of boarded up store front, kids could drink at 18, Georgetown clubs were packed on weekends, you could get in line and go into the Whitehouse at Christmas time, you could go walk around inside the capitol blg.. low security compared to now.