Real talk about the city’s economy, federal buildings leases, and telework impacts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1. People who live in DC often take a very narrow-minded view of the suburbs and think that they're just full of people who would live in DC but are priced out. The truth is that many of us are totally happy in the suburbs, and we really only come into DC for work and don't find anything about DC to be particularly enjoyable. I'm sure this is true of other major cities as well; not everyone has bought into the idea that you can't have an exciting and fulfilling life if you don't live in a city.

Suburbanites are parasites on host cities. Film at 11.

Perhaps you should tell our employers to pay us enough to live there then. Given the cost of housing in DC, this isn't an "avoiding property taxes" thing.

The amount of money that I would need to be paid to live in DC in an equivalent safe neighborhood on a large lot on a quiet, tree lined street would be unconscionable. In any case, where I live the infrastructure and government services are much better so even if I was paid enough for the equivalent lifestyle it would not be an equivalent exchange. Particularly since it is vastly more convenient to get around and shop.

LOL, how many people (especially younger people) can afford to have a "large lot on a quiet tree lined street" anywhere? Most cannot afford to buy a home in the suburbs anyway, if you have one and can afford one this doesn't make it reality for everyone. Many people will have to resort to apartment living, and apartment living is objectively nicer in urban grid setting in the city vs. in the suburbs if you reduce crime and homelessness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Shaw. Been here nearly 20 years. I’m very worried about the direction the city is going in— which is rapidly into a cesspool of crime, blight and vacancy. I think we can’t undo the remote work. I work in DuPont just two days a week and my spouse with full time. Our neighborhood is loud (constant construction which I now worry will sit empty), motorcycles/atvs, loud engines, etc). This has gotten worse, not better. The bike lines sound like a good idea, but have led to ore rush hour congestion, not less, leaving cars to idle longer in traffic, leading to more pollution exposure.

I feel like this is dire. We need big ideas to realign downtown that doesn’t bank on feds and k street suits coming back. We need to get enforcem no public camping and address violent crime with more police and get rid of this woke Coincil. How about converting buildings into live/work loft spaces, with a good number of affordable units. Incentives for small businesses, cafes, etc. destroy ugly, outdated and vacant buildings for green space? Make some core thoroughfares into pedestrian malls with semi permanent outdoor markets and streeteries?

Was just in Paris which was thronging with tourists, tons of restaurants, cafe, markets and small businesses. Besides their culture, what other things do they do to ensure their cities remain vibrant? I noticed street cleaning trucks out everyday picking up litter and washing the streets literally.

Paris is a real world class city, which DC never was. Cities like NY and Paris have tourists and hoarded of people who want to live there regardless of employment.

DC is a company town. Very few people would ever aspire to live here if they won the lottery. There has always been limited high end shopping and entertainment. The mayor and local government made a huge mistake going all in on Covid. While it was nice to go against and hurt Trump, they ended up only hurting themselves. Remote work to a certain extent is here to stay and it will likely take DC decades to recover.

I saw the writing on the wall during the protests and sold my property in DC. A city does not have a great future if it’s allowing that kind of behavior while keeping schools closed and punishing small businesses.

You want to be feeling good about disinvesting from the city, so your opinion is clearly biased. DC doesn't need to be compared to NYC or Paris to be livable or enjoyable. Objectively speaking, there is nothing wrong with DC urban grid or its appearance to prevent it from being a desirable place to live and work. It already has existing infrastructure for a vibrant residential city life, it will take time to redevelop it and have people move in. You are predicting this will never happen and nobody likes to live in DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1. People who live in DC often take a very narrow-minded view of the suburbs and think that they're just full of people who would live in DC but are priced out. The truth is that many of us are totally happy in the suburbs, and we really only come into DC for work and don't find anything about DC to be particularly enjoyable. I'm sure this is true of other major cities as well; not everyone has bought into the idea that you can't have an exciting and fulfilling life if you don't live in a city.

Suburbanites are parasites on host cities. Film at 11.

Perhaps you should tell our employers to pay us enough to live there then. Given the cost of housing in DC, this isn't an "avoiding property taxes" thing.

The amount of money that I would need to be paid to live in DC in an equivalent safe neighborhood on a large lot on a quiet, tree lined street would be unconscionable. In any case, where I live the infrastructure and government services are much better so even if I was paid enough for the equivalent lifestyle it would not be an equivalent exchange. Particularly since it is vastly more convenient to get around and shop.

LOL, how many people (especially younger people) can afford to have a "large lot on a quiet tree lined street" anywhere? Most cannot afford to buy a home in the suburbs anyway, if you have one and can afford one this doesn't make it reality for everyone. Many people will have to resort to apartment living, and apartment living is objectively nicer in urban grid setting in the city vs. in the suburbs if you reduce crime and homelessness.

There is a reason that Howard County is growing as fast as it is. Others just leave the region entirely and move to the south or southwest. The people who would otherwise be the middle class tax base can afford a single family home with a yard if they move out far enough and the are increasingly willing to do it. DC is left with those wealthy enough to stay, those young enough to not care yet, and those too poor to leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't an issue unique to DC. Every city now has more teleworking folks than before. The issue is that DC has terrible traffic, terrible crime, terrible public transportation, and a terrible homeless problem, so lots of people have no desire to come into DC unless forced to do so for work reasons.

Show me the city where this isn't a problem. Which city exactly doesn't have increased homeless problem, emptying office buildings and increase in crime?

Which city? Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, SLC, Boise. All growing rapidly with high rates of office occupancy. Also have car oriented infrastructure and lots of sprawl which creates opportunities for cheaper SFH. But that’s probably just a coincidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1. People who live in DC often take a very narrow-minded view of the suburbs and think that they're just full of people who would live in DC but are priced out. The truth is that many of us are totally happy in the suburbs, and we really only come into DC for work and don't find anything about DC to be particularly enjoyable. I'm sure this is true of other major cities as well; not everyone has bought into the idea that you can't have an exciting and fulfilling life if you don't live in a city.

Suburbanites are parasites on host cities. Film at 11.

Perhaps you should tell our employers to pay us enough to live there then. Given the cost of housing in DC, this isn't an "avoiding property taxes" thing.

The amount of money that I would need to be paid to live in DC in an equivalent safe neighborhood on a large lot on a quiet, tree lined street would be unconscionable. In any case, where I live the infrastructure and government services are much better so even if I was paid enough for the equivalent lifestyle it would not be an equivalent exchange. Particularly since it is vastly more convenient to get around and shop.

LOL, how many people (especially younger people) can afford to have a "large lot on a quiet tree lined street" anywhere? Most cannot afford to buy a home in the suburbs anyway, if you have one and can afford one this doesn't make it reality for everyone. Many people will have to resort to apartment living, and apartment living is objectively nicer in urban grid setting in the city vs. in the suburbs if you reduce crime and homelessness.

There is a reason that Howard County is growing as fast as it is. Others just leave the region entirely and move to the south or southwest. The people who would otherwise be the middle class tax base can afford a single family home with a yard if they move out far enough and the are increasingly willing to do it. DC is left with those wealthy enough to stay, those young enough to not care yet, and those too poor to leave.

The typical person who moves out of DC, makes above AMI and moves to MD for “housing” reasons. The odd presumption is that it’s housing cost and that building more one bedroom apartments will convince them to stay. They reality is that these are people starting families who want more space and amenities for higher quality family living.

As you rightly note: the fastest growing counties in the region are Falquier, Loudon, Frederick and Howard. The fastest growing region of the country is the Sun Belt. People are moving to these places because the afford them the lifestyle and amenities they want and a price they can afford. More density in DC and inner suburbs does not meet those conditions and it is only reasonable to think that a generation of people raised in a SFH on a quiet street in the suburbs would want that for their own children. Not everyone had an unhappy childhood that they blame on the built environment. What’s interesting is how little interest DC has in getting more family friendly when that’s where the demographic change is affecting migration patterns the most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who would live downtown if they converted office buildings to housing? There is nothing open in some areas, it is empty at night and there are homeless people camping all over the place. I work downtown and it sucks now.

If you make it affordable enough people will come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Fed refusal to go back to work is killing Metro as well; and Metro is already reeling from the pandemic drop in ridership (as well as the crime issues). Do you like being able to take Metro to the Caps or the Nats? They can't run an entire system for the benefit of Nats Park and the Verizon Center. I also just flat out don't believe that people are as efficient working from home 5 days a week. They just aren't---whether private or public. And young people cannot learn job skills (soft or hard) sitting on their sofas at home. We need a reasonable compromise on the work week---maybe Tu-We-Th becomes the new "in office" work week and Fri and Mo are the universal "work from home".

Subway ridership in NYC is still at about 60% of pre-pandemic levels also. So don't just blame federal workers; the private sector workers aren't using subways either. It would be nice if, instead of focusing on easy solutions (like forcing people into the office against their will), metro leadership focused on cleanliness, fare-jumping, crime, safety, and reliability.

Don't forget that DC metro is a lot more expensive than NYC subway where your ticket price is fixed no matter what distance you go and you can purchase a monthly pass for 100 something bucks to ride unlimited on subways/buses, often subsidized by your employer and given for free to public school kids. DC metro isn't affordable for people who need it. For people who have options to drive metro has become undesirable due to crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who would live downtown if they converted office buildings to housing? There is nothing open in some areas, it is empty at night and there are homeless people camping all over the place. I work downtown and it sucks now.

If you make it affordable enough people will come.

I don’t think the mayors goal is to turn downtown into a low income neighborhood. That’s not likely to have the economic effect that is hoped for and it’s also unlikely that any office conversions would take place because they won’t pencil out at affordable rents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Fed refusal to go back to work is killing Metro as well; and Metro is already reeling from the pandemic drop in ridership (as well as the crime issues). Do you like being able to take Metro to the Caps or the Nats? They can't run an entire system for the benefit of Nats Park and the Verizon Center. I also just flat out don't believe that people are as efficient working from home 5 days a week. They just aren't---whether private or public. And young people cannot learn job skills (soft or hard) sitting on their sofas at home. We need a reasonable compromise on the work week---maybe Tu-We-Th becomes the new "in office" work week and Fri and Mo are the universal "work from home".

Subway ridership in NYC is still at about 60% of pre-pandemic levels also. So don't just blame federal workers; the private sector workers aren't using subways either. It would be nice if, instead of focusing on easy solutions (like forcing people into the office against their will), metro leadership focused on cleanliness, fare-jumping, crime, safety, and reliability.

Don't forget that DC metro is a lot more expensive than NYC subway where your ticket price is fixed no matter what distance you go and you can purchase a monthly pass for 100 something bucks to ride unlimited on subways/buses, often subsidized by your employer and given for free to public school kids. DC metro isn't affordable for people who need it. For people who have options to drive metro has become undesirable due to crime.

It is not encouraging that WMATA is now trying to bully and prevent the Safety Commission from appropriately doing its job when the transit system has never proved that it can operate safely without that oversight - god forbid the Board would be expected to provide oversight. I’m not interested is riding in an unsafe transit system on trains that have a defect that causes them to derail that has not been identified that are operated by a transit system that doesn’t take safety seriously. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who would live downtown if they converted office buildings to housing? There is nothing open in some areas, it is empty at night and there are homeless people camping all over the place. I work downtown and it sucks now.

Large and reasonably priced loft style condos from older buildings would be a huge attraction, but there just isn't enough of that type of building I think to make it happen. A lot of DC's commercial building stock is 1970s/1980s generation. Maybe Metro Center area has some buildings that could be attractive for conversions? Not many though.

They are already converting them in midtown. Those who want big homes and yards are obviously not going to like the city no matter what, it's a moot point to argue the lame topic "who would even want to live in the city" when everyone has preferences when it comes to lifestyle choices. Not everyone likes suburbia either and these days many cannot afford even a modest home anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Fed refusal to go back to work is killing Metro as well; and Metro is already reeling from the pandemic drop in ridership (as well as the crime issues). Do you like being able to take Metro to the Caps or the Nats? They can't run an entire system for the benefit of Nats Park and the Verizon Center. I also just flat out don't believe that people are as efficient working from home 5 days a week. They just aren't---whether private or public. And young people cannot learn job skills (soft or hard) sitting on their sofas at home. We need a reasonable compromise on the work week---maybe Tu-We-Th becomes the new "in office" work week and Fri and Mo are the universal "work from home".

Subway ridership in NYC is still at about 60% of pre-pandemic levels also. So don't just blame federal workers; the private sector workers aren't using subways either. It would be nice if, instead of focusing on easy solutions (like forcing people into the office against their will), metro leadership focused on cleanliness, fare-jumping, crime, safety, and reliability.

Don't forget that DC metro is a lot more expensive than NYC subway where your ticket price is fixed no matter what distance you go and you can purchase a monthly pass for 100 something bucks to ride unlimited on subways/buses, often subsidized by your employer and given for free to public school kids. DC metro isn't affordable for people who need it. For people who have options to drive metro has become undesirable due to crime.

It is not encouraging that WMATA is now trying to bully and prevent the Safety Commission from appropriately doing its job when the transit system has never proved that it can operate safely without that oversight - god forbid the Board would be expected to provide oversight. I’m not interested is riding in an unsafe transit system on trains that have a defect that causes them to derail that has not been identified that are operated by a transit system that doesn’t take safety seriously. No thanks.

That’s not my impression of what Wmata is doing. Seems like WMSC is trying to micromanage them. If Wmata managers can’t make relatively small and simple decisions how can they do their jobs? The operator training hoops they’re having to jump through doesn’t make anything safer, it’s a bureaucratic check the boxes exercise.

(Btw l don’t work for Wmata but follow it with interest)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who would live downtown if they converted office buildings to housing? There is nothing open in some areas, it is empty at night and there are homeless people camping all over the place. I work downtown and it sucks now.

If you make it affordable enough people will come.

I don’t think the mayors goal is to turn downtown into a low income neighborhood. That’s not likely to have the economic effect that is hoped for and it’s also unlikely that any office conversions would take place because they won’t pencil out at affordable rents.

Low income isn't going to make it a vibrant desirable place, you need to have people with middle to upper incomes who have money to spend at restaurants, stores, bars and fancy grocery stores. I am not under impression that these conversions are catering to low income housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be clear, no one is asking for Federal handouts. At all.

I agree that the city needs to get rid of camping on sidewalks. That is a blight and not a good long term solution for unhoused people.

DC government needs to get better at looking critically at developers and creating a good plan for how the city should look in twenty years. I believe it's too early to say that workers will never return to offices at all. But things won't be going back to how they were. That much is clear.

I don't know a single city that managed to solve this problem for good. Tents may temporarily leave some street where they are forcibly removed, but they tend to come back. Homeless don't want to go to shelters, and nobody figured out a way to build free housing that also has to be maintained for these people who won't have money and mental facility to maintain their free units themselves even if you give it to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Fed refusal to go back to work is killing Metro as well; and Metro is already reeling from the pandemic drop in ridership (as well as the crime issues). Do you like being able to take Metro to the Caps or the Nats? They can't run an entire system for the benefit of Nats Park and the Verizon Center. I also just flat out don't believe that people are as efficient working from home 5 days a week. They just aren't---whether private or public. And young people cannot learn job skills (soft or hard) sitting on their sofas at home. We need a reasonable compromise on the work week---maybe Tu-We-Th becomes the new "in office" work week and Fri and Mo are the universal "work from home".

Subway ridership in NYC is still at about 60% of pre-pandemic levels also. So don't just blame federal workers; the private sector workers aren't using subways either. It would be nice if, instead of focusing on easy solutions (like forcing people into the office against their will), metro leadership focused on cleanliness, fare-jumping, crime, safety, and reliability.

Don't forget that DC metro is a lot more expensive than NYC subway where your ticket price is fixed no matter what distance you go and you can purchase a monthly pass for 100 something bucks to ride unlimited on subways/buses, often subsidized by your employer and given for free to public school kids. DC metro isn't affordable for people who need it. For people who have options to drive metro has become undesirable due to crime.

It is not encouraging that WMATA is now trying to bully and prevent the Safety Commission from appropriately doing its job when the transit system has never proved that it can operate safely without that oversight - god forbid the Board would be expected to provide oversight. I’m not interested is riding in an unsafe transit system on trains that have a defect that causes them to derail that has not been identified that are operated by a transit system that doesn’t take safety seriously. No thanks.

That’s not my impression of what Wmata is doing. Seems like WMSC is trying to micromanage them. If Wmata managers can’t make relatively small and simple decisions how can they do their jobs? The operator training hoops they’re having to jump through doesn’t make anything safer, it’s a bureaucratic check the boxes exercise.

(Btw l don’t work for Wmata but follow it with interest)

If the Safety Commission goes away, do you believe Metro can operating safely on its own? Yes or no?

That’s the only question that needs to be asked. And answer to the question is self-evident in the fact that the Safety Commission had to be created in the first place.

WMATA now thinks it doesn’t need safety oversight when it keep its operators actively trained nor even maintain records of operator training. That’s just negligence.

But fine, let’s have a test. Let’s end the Safety Commission and then let’s see what happens next.

[Anonymous]

My prediction - the converted office buildings (if they happen) will be purchased by foreign investors and corporate offices or by wealthy people for use as secondary homes. They will sit vacant a good deal of the time and will not bring the density needed to make the area more vibrant.