Walls vs Private- How Would You Compare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in a position to sue as a parent. My white kid was admitted Walls. A lawyer who friend who does some work for the anti-affirmative action group Students for Fair Admissions tells me that where Walls could wind up in legal hot water is in their use of an interview to identify minority applicants. Apparently, that's where Boston Latin fell down in 1998 in the McLaughlin suit, brought by a white father whose white daughter was denied admission. The US Court of Appeals ruled against the Boston school system. The $60,000 question is what happens in the Chapel Hil and Harvard affirmative action cases at the Supreme Court in the spring. I'm told that if the SC rules that race cannot be considered in college admissions, as expected, magnet high schools in US cities will come under new pressure to support race-blind admissions processes (without interviews). Perhaps the silver lining will be that DCPS may finally start to put resources in elementary and middle school GT programs in predominantly low SES schools.

I know three Black kids from Deal who made the grade cutoff and interviewed at Walls last year. All three were waitlisted, and none of them made it off the waitlist. I wonder how those litigious white parents will explain that fact when they file their lawsuit alleging that Walls is only interviewing “to identify [and admit] minority applicants.” I also know about 5 white students who were direct admits (no waitlist). All of these students had about a 3.7 GPA. Hmm…

**at least** a 3.7 GPA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a daughter at Walls and wouldn't consider sending her to privates. The bullying is likely worse at the privates and the education is likely similar considering that walls has excellent teachers. Walls (like any DCPS school) also offers the opportunity to register for college classes (for a select few full time and for others on a course by course basis). I have trouble matching our personal experience to all of the walls bashing. On the side of the elite privates i will say that the resources are better and appear to some parents as feeling more like college campuses in terms of resources with multimillion dollar donations. If you are looking for more resources privates will have those. Walls and DCPS cannot match privates in terms of sports either. To us high teacher quality and advanced classes is enough, and we do not like high pressure with sports - even walls is a little higher pressure than we would like. As mentioned with the college classes there are also some advantages that you will not have at privates. For anyone interested in debate the Washington Urban Debate League is only for public school kids and their kids I believe do better than the private school kids. The peer group is also important. There is no question that the walls kids are top notch academically. In college admissions your child is at a disadvantage at private school because the kids, many of whom are legacies, compete against each other for early decision to elite privates. Walls kids often attend public universities so they can get DC TAG. Walls has many longtime teachers and retaining teachers is one of the most portant roles of a principal.

You make some good points. That said, posters are hardly "Walls bashing" to note that new head is a cipher and that watering down admissions standards at Bowser's behest was a terrible idea. All the Walls kids are hardly top notch academically. Just not the case, not anymore. I wish things were different.

The kids were initially selected based on grades, which studies show are a better predictor of academic success than tests scores. According to my child most of the kids earned straight As or nearly straight As in Middle School. They took the highest achieving kids. The only part that was subjective was the interview, which arguably led to many deserving kids being waitlisted. My experience is that my child has always been number one at school, and now my child needs to provide more effort and is not always number one. It is hard for me to imagine a school providing a more high achieving peer group. Elite privates also have many kids who get in in elementary school, and those kids are not necessarily as high achieving as the ones who enter in high school and went through a rigorous selection process. I'm just not convinced you are getting a higher achieving peer group at an elite private, though the group may be equivalent and the resources certainly greater.

I can speak to this: my kid was near/at the top of the class at Deal (if there is such a thing) ---straight As all 4 years (no A minuses and mostly percentage grades of 98/99). PARCC scores at 99%.
Algebra 2 at Deal.
Is now at an "elite" private (Sidwell/NCS/STA) and is probably at the 75% point for the grade, despite working really hard and doing what I consider "the best of his/her ability.".
This is no slam on DCPS and I have another 2 kids who have gone through DCPS through 12th, including one at Walls. But some of the privates really assemble a high performing cohort of kids. They have their pick from across the DMV and also routinely counsel-out kids for academic reasons along the way (including a bunch prior to 9th).

Your kid is a C student at a Big 3?

No, he/she is at about the 75th percentile academically in his/her grade at the Big3. About 25% of the kids do better, take harder classes, are higher performers, etc. Of course I don't exactly but this is my best guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a daughter at Walls and wouldn't consider sending her to privates. The bullying is likely worse at the privates and the education is likely similar considering that walls has excellent teachers. Walls (like any DCPS school) also offers the opportunity to register for college classes (for a select few full time and for others on a course by course basis). I have trouble matching our personal experience to all of the walls bashing. On the side of the elite privates i will say that the resources are better and appear to some parents as feeling more like college campuses in terms of resources with multimillion dollar donations. If you are looking for more resources privates will have those. Walls and DCPS cannot match privates in terms of sports either. To us high teacher quality and advanced classes is enough, and we do not like high pressure with sports - even walls is a little higher pressure than we would like. As mentioned with the college classes there are also some advantages that you will not have at privates. For anyone interested in debate the Washington Urban Debate League is only for public school kids and their kids I believe do better than the private school kids. The peer group is also important. There is no question that the walls kids are top notch academically. In college admissions your child is at a disadvantage at private school because the kids, many of whom are legacies, compete against each other for early decision to elite privates. Walls kids often attend public universities so they can get DC TAG. Walls has many longtime teachers and retaining teachers is one of the most portant roles of a principal.

You make some good points. That said, posters are hardly "Walls bashing" to note that new head is a cipher and that watering down admissions standards at Bowser's behest was a terrible idea. All the Walls kids are hardly top notch academically. Just not the case, not anymore. I wish things were different.

So a test equals academic excellence? That is hardly the case. With all the grade inflation in schools systems, making the GPA cut off should not be too challenging. Just don't apply if your genius kid is too advanced for Walls.

You're missing the forest for the trees with this statement. The Walls admissions process has never been transparent but seems to become less so with each passing admissions season. The arrangement is ripe for a lawsuit, like the one Boston Latin failed to fend off in the late 90s. BL was forced to ditch its admissions interview and a one-third admissions quota for racial minorities in an embarrassing out of court settlement. Ditching the Walls admissions test and the standardized test requirement (PARCC scores or PSAT or SAT scores) has made the admissions process more discretionary than ever, and, thus, more likely to invite litigation. This is not about genius kids applying, it's about accountability and fairness on DCPS' part. Let me guess, you're not a lawyer.

Nope....I'm sure you're not a school administrator. The process certainly leaves a lot to be desired. But GPA calculations and the interview as well as the percentages are documented. Just file a lawsuit against DCPS if you're so dern sure it's discriminatory. I'm pretty sure you'd have to name all the DCPS application high schools' and not just Walls. Are you prepared to do that? Let us know when this happens...

I’m not the PP you’re attacking but I see scope for litigation where Walls admissions is concerned for a simple reason. It’s a no brainer that a B+ GPA at BASIS is likely to mean that a student has learned two or three times more in middle school that a competitor with an A+ GPA from a failing DCPS or charter program enrolling no UMC or white families. This New Yorker who attended test-in magnet programs from 6th to 12th grade agrees that the Walls admissions system may provide fertile ground for litigation eventually. Boston Latin wasn’t expecting to be sued either.

No attacks-just do it if you are going to do it. I'm a southerner that attended test in magnets also. So I'm pretty familiar with all of it. Your premise will be destroyed and I'm no attorney. Let's say a DCPS school has two sections of Algebra I. One student gets an A in section 1; One student gets a B in section 2. However, everyone says section 2 has a much harder teacher. Based on that opinion alone, the section 2 student is better in Algebra I and smarter regardless of the grade earned. That is basically what you're saying. Colleges are definitely not going to do that type of legwork. They'd never finish the process. I seriously doubt going down the Basis is harder, UMC, whiter path, etc. is a winner. Again, just get on with the lawsuits, FOIA requests, etc. and lets see what happens. No need for all of the hypothetical situations. My DC will be in college by the time any of it happens

Your example doesn't really fit because the Basis kid's B+ could easily be in algebra II while the A at the charter may not even be in algebra

Quite sure the PP said Algebra I and the same school...I can see PP is probably on to something...no way to win

PP's example was in response to someone asking how Basis students should be compared to other students. Basis students will be grade levels ahead in math, PP's example about two kids with different algebra teachers misses that distinction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in a position to sue as a parent. My white kid was admitted Walls. A lawyer who friend who does some work for the anti-affirmative action group Students for Fair Admissions tells me that where Walls could wind up in legal hot water is in their use of an interview to identify minority applicants. Apparently, that's where Boston Latin fell down in 1998 in the McLaughlin suit, brought by a white father whose white daughter was denied admission. The US Court of Appeals ruled against the Boston school system. The $60,000 question is what happens in the Chapel Hil and Harvard affirmative action cases at the Supreme Court in the spring. I'm told that if the SC rules that race cannot be considered in college admissions, as expected, magnet high schools in US cities will come under new pressure to support race-blind admissions processes (without interviews). Perhaps the silver lining will be that DCPS may finally start to put resources in elementary and middle school GT programs in predominantly low SES schools.

I know three Black kids from Deal who made the grade cutoff and interviewed at Walls last year. All three were waitlisted, and none of them made it off the waitlist. I wonder how those litigious white parents will explain that fact when they file their lawsuit alleging that Walls is only interviewing “to identify [and admit] minority applicants.” I also know about 5 white students who were direct admits (no waitlist). All of these students had about a 3.7 GPA. Hmm…

I agree, it’s more likely that Walls is discriminating against Black applicants more now, not intentionally, but because a quick interview to determine “fit” is fertile ground for unconscious bias. I haven’t seen any demographic data to suggest they’re enrolling fewer white kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in a position to sue as a parent. My white kid was admitted Walls. A lawyer who friend who does some work for the anti-affirmative action group Students for Fair Admissions tells me that where Walls could wind up in legal hot water is in their use of an interview to identify minority applicants. Apparently, that's where Boston Latin fell down in 1998 in the McLaughlin suit, brought by a white father whose white daughter was denied admission. The US Court of Appeals ruled against the Boston school system. The $60,000 question is what happens in the Chapel Hil and Harvard affirmative action cases at the Supreme Court in the spring. I'm told that if the SC rules that race cannot be considered in college admissions, as expected, magnet high schools in US cities will come under new pressure to support race-blind admissions processes (without interviews). Perhaps the silver lining will be that DCPS may finally start to put resources in elementary and middle school GT programs in predominantly low SES schools.

I know three Black kids from Deal who made the grade cutoff and interviewed at Walls last year. All three were waitlisted, and none of them made it off the waitlist. I wonder how those litigious white parents will explain that fact when they file their lawsuit alleging that Walls is only interviewing “to identify [and admit] minority applicants.” I also know about 5 white students who were direct admits (no waitlist). All of these students had about a 3.7 GPA. Hmm…

I agree, it’s more likely that Walls is discriminating against Black applicants more now, not intentionally, but because a quick interview to determine “fit” is fertile ground for unconscious bias. I haven’t seen any demographic data to suggest they’re enrolling fewer white kids.

That’s because they’re NOT enrolling fewer white students under this new process. The number of white students has actually increased since quarantine started.

[Anonymous]

They're enrolling fewer top white students. It used to be next to impossible for B students of any race to crack Walls. Now they can. The admissions process has gone haywire, not just because of an affirmative action tilt. Aside from a basic GPA baseline, the process is almost completely subjective now, which just doesn't bode well for Walls. The entrance exam and standardized test requirement were useful in vetting applicants. Getting rid of these metrics of preparedness was a feel-good measure that hasn't helped Walls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're enrolling fewer top white students. It used to be next to impossible for B students of any race to crack Walls. Now they can. The admissions process has gone haywire, not just because of an affirmative action tilt. Aside from a basic GPA baseline, the process is almost completely subjective now, which just doesn't bode well for Walls. The entrance exam and standardized test requirement were useful in vetting applicants. Getting rid of these metrics of preparedness was a feel-good measure that hasn't helped Walls.

With a 3.7-3.8 grade cutoff for an interview, how are "B students" cracking Walls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're enrolling fewer top white students. It used to be next to impossible for B students of any race to crack Walls. Now they can. The admissions process has gone haywire, not just because of an affirmative action tilt. Aside from a basic GPA baseline, the process is almost completely subjective now, which just doesn't bode well for Walls. The entrance exam and standardized test requirement were useful in vetting applicants. Getting rid of these metrics of preparedness was a feel-good measure that hasn't helped Walls.

How many Bs can you get and still have a cumulative 3.7 to 3.75 GPA? None of the current admitted students are “B students.” You sound silly…and bitter.

[Anonymous]

My youngest attends a DCPS MS EotP where easy As are standard. She hardly has any homework, doesn't have to break a sweat at school, easily earns straight As. Meanwhile, her elementary school pals who went on to BASIS and Latin--we never got off the waiting list for either--obviously must work much harder for their As.

You're not going to convince me that 8th grade GPA cut offs are terribly relevant in the public middle school landscape of this particular city. When one of my kid's older siblings applied to Walls, he took the entrance exam AND had to submit his 7th grade PARCC scores. That was more like it. There was an objective standard Walls applicants had to rise to.

The new admissions system isn't a total joke, but it's close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My youngest attends a DCPS MS EotP where easy As are standard. She hardly has any homework, doesn't have to break a sweat at school, easily earns straight As. Meanwhile, her elementary school pals who went on to BASIS and Latin--we never got off the waiting list for either--obviously must work much harder for their As.

You're not going to convince me that 8th grade GPA cut offs are terribly relevant in the public middle school landscape of this particular city. When one of my kid's older siblings applied to Walls, he took the entrance exam AND had to submit his 7th grade PARCC scores. That was more like it. There was an objective standard Walls applicants had to rise to.

The new admissions system isn't a total joke, but it's close.

Too bad your youngest child attends such an awful school. Hopefully, Walls doesn’t take any students from your child’s crappy EotP middle school. My child attends a much better WotP school with a strong track record of students doing well at Walls and privates.

Are you too broke to send your child to a private high school?

[Anonymous]

Yet another PP losing the forest for the trees where admission to Walls goes.

The point about 8th grade GPAs in certain DC public middle schools not presenting the full picture academically is well taken. Comparing apples to oranges only gets you so far as a scientist, policy maker or school admin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in a position to sue as a parent. My white kid was admitted Walls. A lawyer who friend who does some work for the anti-affirmative action group Students for Fair Admissions tells me that where Walls could wind up in legal hot water is in their use of an interview to identify minority applicants. Apparently, that's where Boston Latin fell down in 1998 in the McLaughlin suit, brought by a white father whose white daughter was denied admission. The US Court of Appeals ruled against the Boston school system. The $60,000 question is what happens in the Chapel Hil and Harvard affirmative action cases at the Supreme Court in the spring. I'm told that if the SC rules that race cannot be considered in college admissions, as expected, magnet high schools in US cities will come under new pressure to support race-blind admissions processes (without interviews). Perhaps the silver lining will be that DCPS may finally start to put resources in elementary and middle school GT programs in predominantly low SES schools.

I know three Black kids from Deal who made the grade cutoff and interviewed at Walls last year. All three were waitlisted, and none of them made it off the waitlist. I wonder how those litigious white parents will explain that fact when they file their lawsuit alleging that Walls is only interviewing “to identify [and admit] minority applicants.” I also know about 5 white students who were direct admits (no waitlist). All of these students had about a 3.7 GPA. Hmm…

Based on the handful of kids you know, you are suggesting that Walls is racist against blacks and favors whites in the admissions process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest attends a DCPS MS EotP where easy As are standard. She hardly has any homework, doesn't have to break a sweat at school, easily earns straight As. Meanwhile, her elementary school pals who went on to BASIS and Latin--we never got off the waiting list for either--obviously must work much harder for their As.

You're not going to convince me that 8th grade GPA cut offs are terribly relevant in the public middle school landscape of this particular city. When one of my kid's older siblings applied to Walls, he took the entrance exam AND had to submit his 7th grade PARCC scores. That was more like it. There was an objective standard Walls applicants had to rise to.

The new admissions system isn't a total joke, but it's close.

Too bad your youngest child attends such an awful school. Hopefully, Walls doesn’t take any students from your child’s crappy EotP middle school. My child attends a much better WotP school with a strong track record of students doing well at Walls and privates.

Are you too broke to send your child to a private high school?

. Our “awful” DCPS middle school sends more 8th graders to Walls than BASIS or Latin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest attends a DCPS MS EotP where easy As are standard. She hardly has any homework, doesn't have to break a sweat at school, easily earns straight As. Meanwhile, her elementary school pals who went on to BASIS and Latin--we never got off the waiting list for either--obviously must work much harder for their As.

You're not going to convince me that 8th grade GPA cut offs are terribly relevant in the public middle school landscape of this particular city. When one of my kid's older siblings applied to Walls, he took the entrance exam AND had to submit his 7th grade PARCC scores. That was more like it. There was an objective standard Walls applicants had to rise to.

The new admissions system isn't a total joke, but it's close.

Too bad your youngest child attends such an awful school. Hopefully, Walls doesn’t take any students from your child’s crappy EotP middle school. My child attends a much better WotP school with a strong track record of students doing well at Walls and privates.

Are you too broke to send your child to a private high school?

. Our “awful” DCPS middle school sends more 8th graders to Walls than BASIS or Latin.

That is not the flex you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in a position to sue as a parent. My white kid was admitted Walls. A lawyer who friend who does some work for the anti-affirmative action group Students for Fair Admissions tells me that where Walls could wind up in legal hot water is in their use of an interview to identify minority applicants. Apparently, that's where Boston Latin fell down in 1998 in the McLaughlin suit, brought by a white father whose white daughter was denied admission. The US Court of Appeals ruled against the Boston school system. The $60,000 question is what happens in the Chapel Hil and Harvard affirmative action cases at the Supreme Court in the spring. I'm told that if the SC rules that race cannot be considered in college admissions, as expected, magnet high schools in US cities will come under new pressure to support race-blind admissions processes (without interviews). Perhaps the silver lining will be that DCPS may finally start to put resources in elementary and middle school GT programs in predominantly low SES schools.

I know three Black kids from Deal who made the grade cutoff and interviewed at Walls last year. All three were waitlisted, and none of them made it off the waitlist. I wonder how those litigious white parents will explain that fact when they file their lawsuit alleging that Walls is only interviewing “to identify [and admit] minority applicants.” I also know about 5 white students who were direct admits (no waitlist). All of these students had about a 3.7 GPA. Hmm…

Based on the handful of kids you know, you are suggesting that Walls is racist against blacks and favors whites in the admissions process?

I’m not suggesting anything. I’m telling you that white parents who claim their children are being racially discriminated against by DCPS/Walls do NOT have a case. But waste your money and time filing a lawsuit to find out what I’m telling you for free.