Private Schools Value Top Athletes Most

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NCS sends their top 10% to the ivies or similar.

I thought it was usually higher than 10 percent at NCS (and STA too).

No. They don’t. The only schools that consistently send the top 20% to ivies or similar in this area are the magnets like TJ and Blair. STA sends the top 10% as does GDS and Sidwell.

This thread suggests otherwise.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/645/933424.page

People exaggerate and lie. There are very few schools in the USA that consistently send their top 20% to ivies and similar. Most everyone else at a decent school, public or private send the top 10%, no more.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does it matter if the child plays for the HS or if they are on a club team not affiliated with the HS?

you kinda want kids playing for the schools

I wish the US would adopt a European approach to scholastic sports. Schools should have nada to do with it, it just detracts from their missions. Leave the sports to clubs.

What is the European approach? I agree it needs to change.

What I just described. The schools don’t sponsor athletics. Kids can, should and do play sports, but all the leagues are run independently of schools.

The problem with this is its the selective colleges that go after athletes too. The privates are just trying to recruit the kids who can get accepted into them. Have to change sports at the college level and that ain't happening.

For good reason.
Study: College Athletes Have Better Academic, Life Outcomes

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/06/24/gallup-study-shows-positive-life-outcomes-college-athletes

I’m not saying don’t play sports. On the contrary, actually. It just shouldn’t be the schools sponsoring the teams. It’s the athletic kids and their parents who favor HS and colleges continuing to sponsor sports because it gives them a hook.

Do you understand how ingrained Friday night lights is in American culture? Didn't you ever pack a gym to cheer for your high school basketball team?

Maybe for large public schools. Most elite privates certainly at the middle school level (since you are talking about admissions) do not have enough students to field the teams at that level - sports are for fun, not particularly to help with admissions to high schools and our school sends kids to the top NE boarding schools. Our school discourages playing on travel teams and wants kids to play on the schools teams.

My kid goes to an all boys’ private middle school (not DMV) where sports is everyday and mandatory and the main sport they recruit for is ice hockey and even that takes second place after academics. The teachers at the school also coach sports and many of them played sports in college like football at Amherst, squash at Yale, etc not exactly Friday night lights.

Which is precisely why high schools have to be selective and recruit in order to field teams

Lol! The sports teams are mandatory and for fun. If they can play, they are in. The level of selectivity is not high at all. Also, it’s middle school and many kids get introduced to sports they have never tried before and their skill level is beginner. Athletics is not high on the admissions criteria except for hockey.

My kid is one of the top players in the area in a valued sport and got waitlisted at a big 3z

How was their academics? Grades and test scores?

One B all the rest A’s on reprogram card first two quarters. Level 4 AAP and 86th percentile on ISEE.

This was for 9th? It could simply be that they have a lot of applications and in a normal year, your child would have gotten in. It sounds like the sport didn’t matter much despite the title of the thread. Also, if the ISEE was in the 90%+, may have made a difference. Write a letter to the school saying your child will definitely go if he gets off the waitlist.

No, for 7th.

Apply again next year if you do not get off the waitlist this year (and definitely send the letter) Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCS sends their top 10% to the ivies or similar.

I thought it was usually higher than 10 percent at NCS (and STA too).

No. They don’t. The only schools that consistently send the top 20% to ivies or similar in this area are the magnets like TJ and Blair. STA sends the top 10% as does GDS and Sidwell.

This thread suggests otherwise.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/645/933424.page

People exaggerate and lie. There are very few schools in the USA that consistently send their top 20% to ivies and similar. Most everyone else at a decent school, public or private send the top 10%, no more.

Oh really? In a 4 year period, Holton had 50+ students matriculate at an Ivy/Stanford/MIT/UChicago/Duke+top SLACs. Graduating classes are around 80 students. You can do the math.
https://www.holton-arms.edu/uploaded/documents/US/holton_school_profile_sy2021.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCS sends their top 10% to the ivies or similar.

I thought it was usually higher than 10 percent at NCS (and STA too).

No. They don’t. The only schools that consistently send the top 20% to ivies or similar in this area are the magnets like TJ and Blair. STA sends the top 10% as does GDS and Sidwell.

This thread suggests otherwise.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/645/933424.page

People exaggerate and lie. There are very few schools in the USA that consistently send their top 20% to ivies and similar. Most everyone else at a decent school, public or private send the top 10%, no more.

Oh really? In a 4 year period, Holton had 50+ students matriculate at an Ivy/Stanford/MIT/UChicago/Duke+top SLACs. Graduating classes are around 80 students. You can do the math.
https://www.holton-arms.edu/uploaded/documents/US/holton_school_profile_sy2021.pdf

Yes, if you take out the SLACs it works out to the top 10%

[Anonymous]

Independent schools follow the lead of top colleges. For example, 25% of MIT students are varsity athletes and one of the newest buildings on the MIT campus is an athletics center.

[Anonymous]

Why aren't Amherst and Swarthmore similar to Ivy matriculations? And I didn't even include Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, or the service academies, which bumps the total number to over 60 (i.e., about top 20 percent).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCS sends their top 10% to the ivies or similar.

I thought it was usually higher than 10 percent at NCS (and STA too).

No. They don’t. The only schools that consistently send the top 20% to ivies or similar in this area are the magnets like TJ and Blair. STA sends the top 10% as does GDS and Sidwell.

This thread suggests otherwise.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/645/933424.page

People exaggerate and lie. There are very few schools in the USA that consistently send their top 20% to ivies and similar. Most everyone else at a decent school, public or private send the top 10%, no more.

I spent some time and did the math some years ago. Sidwell and GDS send about 15% to Ivy+Stanford/MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCS sends their top 10% to the ivies or similar.

I thought it was usually higher than 10 percent at NCS (and STA too).

No. They don’t. The only schools that consistently send the top 20% to ivies or similar in this area are the magnets like TJ and Blair. STA sends the top 10% as does GDS and Sidwell.

This thread suggests otherwise.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/645/933424.page

People exaggerate and lie. There are very few schools in the USA that consistently send their top 20% to ivies and similar. Most everyone else at a decent school, public or private send the top 10%, no more.

I spent some time and did the math some years ago. Sidwell and GDS send about 15% to Ivy+Stanford/MIT.

Sometimes they have a good year and/or more legacies than other years. But they basically avg around 10% historically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't Amherst and Swarthmore similar to Ivy matriculations? And I didn't even include Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, or the service academies, which bumps the total number to over 60 (i.e., about top 20 percent).

Ok, Horton is great similar to all the very top elite private schools. A hidden gem that no one’s ever heard of outside the DMV. We can add Amherst and Swathmore and Bowdoin, etc. to make it to top 20%

[Anonymous]

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT LOCAL PRIVATE SCHOOLS, NOT COLLEGE!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:1) people need to get off the idea that the athletes are lesser students

2) people need to understand the sports, and particularly football, foster broader community spirit than any other activity

3) colleges need to fill slots, that includes staffing teams. if they have the choice between the A student with 1500+ and a lineman and the same student who isn't a lineman, guess which one they are going to take?

they are lesser students more often than not so why do we need to get off that idea?

colleges do need to fill spots and in your example, it's more likely that they would take the lineman with a B+ average and 1300 SATs over the A student with 1500+ who did non-athletic activities.

Depends on the school. The ivies and similar get plenty of linesman with A avg and 1500+ SATs. Unless you are Olympic caliber or nationally ranked in the top 200, sports prowess isnogoing to help much + top grades and SATs.

My dd has two friends verbally committed to a top Ivy from her academically rigorous private. One has top grades in honors classes. The other is on the bottom third of her class.

Really? That’s amazing. The top privates in the DMV sends their top 10% to the ivies and similar. A bottom third getting in? Did they donate $$$$$?

Verbally committed means both girls are athletes. No other hooks.

Well,I wouldn't be so dismissive of " the bottom 3rd" of a HS class if it is, for example, NCS. Because an B at NCS is an A anywhere, including- probably-HYP, Stanford

And those schools know it.

Now, what you wouldn't have is Harvard taking the lower 3rd of class from Dunbar HS

NCS sends their top 10% to the ivies or similar. It’s like most good private schools nothing out of the ordinary. It is unheard of that a good private school sent someone in the bottom third to an Ivy unless you are Kushner. Curious what is the sport that would get a bottom 1/3 into an Ivy or similar school?

Mens football and basketball. Possible womens basketball.

Not either of those (did you miss that the athlete is a woman).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) people need to get off the idea that the athletes are lesser students

2) people need to understand the sports, and particularly football, foster broader community spirit than any other activity

3) colleges need to fill slots, that includes staffing teams. if they have the choice between the A student with 1500+ and a lineman and the same student who isn't a lineman, guess which one they are going to take?

they are lesser students more often than not so why do we need to get off that idea?

colleges do need to fill spots and in your example, it's more likely that they would take the lineman with a B+ average and 1300 SATs over the A student with 1500+ who did non-athletic activities.

I’m not going to say for privacy purposes but it is an Olympic sport, not one of the more popular team spo


Depends on the school. The ivies and similar get plenty of linesman with A avg and 1500+ SATs. Unless you are Olympic caliber or nationally ranked in the top 200, sports prowess isnogoing to help much + top grades and SATs.

My dd has two friends verbally committed to a top Ivy from her academically rigorous private. One has top grades in honors classes. The other is on the bottom third of her class.

Really? That’s amazing. The top privates in the DMV sends their top 10% to the ivies and similar. A bottom third getting in? Did they donate $$$$$?

Verbally committed means both girls are athletes. No other hooks.

What sport? I know several athletes that were actively recruited by Ivies: what they all had in common were that they all had great grades, 1500+ SATs and they were nationally ranked in their sport usually the top 50 in the country for individual sports like cross country and within the top 200 for lacrosse. I have never heard of someone who did not poorly academically being recruited for any sport.

Well, you have now. And I know plenty of kids who scored well below 1500 and attended an Ivy for lacrosse. Quite common among Baltimore private school recruits, most of the kids commit prior to have taken the SAT and then just care about meeting the minimum. But the athlete who was in the bottom third of the class is not a lacrosse player.

Recently, all the lacrosse players I know had 1500+ SATs, great grades too but they didn’t go to Ivies- they went to Duke and Hopkins on a full ride.

Lol, definitely not true for most lax recruits at top 10 schools, not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) people need to get off the idea that the athletes are lesser students

2) people need to understand the sports, and particularly football, foster broader community spirit than any other activity

3) colleges need to fill slots, that includes staffing teams. if they have the choice between the A student with 1500+ and a lineman and the same student who isn't a lineman, guess which one they are going to take?

they are lesser students more often than not so why do we need to get off that idea?

colleges do need to fill spots and in your example, it's more likely that they would take the lineman with a B+ average and 1300 SATs over the A student with 1500+ who did non-athletic activities.

I’m not going to say for privacy purposes but it is an Olympic sport, not one of the more popular team spo


Depends on the school. The ivies and similar get plenty of linesman with A avg and 1500+ SATs. Unless you are Olympic caliber or nationally ranked in the top 200, sports prowess isnogoing to help much + top grades and SATs.

My dd has two friends verbally committed to a top Ivy from her academically rigorous private. One has top grades in honors classes. The other is on the bottom third of her class.

Really? That’s amazing. The top privates in the DMV sends their top 10% to the ivies and similar. A bottom third getting in? Did they donate $$$$$?

Verbally committed means both girls are athletes. No other hooks.

What sport? I know several athletes that were actively recruited by Ivies: what they all had in common were that they all had great grades, 1500+ SATs and they were nationally ranked in their sport usually the top 50 in the country for individual sports like cross country and within the top 200 for lacrosse. I have never heard of someone who did not poorly academically being recruited for any sport.

Well, you have now. And I know plenty of kids who scored well below 1500 and attended an Ivy for lacrosse. Quite common among Baltimore private school recruits, most of the kids commit prior to have taken the SAT and then just care about meeting the minimum. But the athlete who was in the bottom third of the class is not a lacrosse player.

Recently, all the lacrosse players I know had 1500+ SATs, great grades too but they didn’t go to Ivies- they went to Duke and Hopkins on a full ride.

Lol, definitely not true for most lax recruits at top 10 schools, not even close.

Yeah, these boys are from tippy top prep schools which recruits for lax to play in high school and they did get a full ride

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) people need to get off the idea that the athletes are lesser students

2) people need to understand the sports, and particularly football, foster broader community spirit than any other activity

3) colleges need to fill slots, that includes staffing teams. if they have the choice between the A student with 1500+ and a lineman and the same student who isn't a lineman, guess which one they are going to take?

they are lesser students more often than not so why do we need to get off that idea?

colleges do need to fill spots and in your example, it's more likely that they would take the lineman with a B+ average and 1300 SATs over the A student with 1500+ who did non-athletic activities.

“Recruited athlete”? What does that mean? My kid met the coach and then went to the school and decided to keep playing her sport, which she played at a national level and they had a spot in her position. Was she recruited? She didn’t get anything, but time with three programs in order to decide which to go with. She also spent time on her own understanding her department, major and career services of what she is interested in.

Have worked now for 25 years and met, hired and mentored many people in my field. If I want something done on time, correctly, a d someone that responds well to feedback (ie thanks coach, will fix that up), I’d absolutely go with a smart former athlete. So many sports for so many different types of people!
Depends on the school. The ivies and similar get plenty of linesman with A avg and 1500+ SATs. Unless you are Olympic caliber or nationally ranked in the top 200, sports prowess isnogoing to help much + top grades and SATs.

This is just wrong. There is actual data from admissions at Harvard and 90+% of recruited athletes have academic ratings so low that they would have been rejected if they were not recruited.

Where is the actual data from admissions? Is it from the lawsuit?

data from the lawsuit, analyzed here:

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w26316/w26316.pdf

The best line from the paper:

"To make this more precise, consider a white, non-ALDC applicant who has only a 1% chance of admission. If this applicant were treated as a recruited athlete, the admission probability would increase to 98%. Being a recruited athlete essentially guarantees admission even for the least-qualified applicants. A similar calculation, but in reverse, emphasizes the advantage athletes receive. An athlete who has an 86% probability of admission—the average rate among athletes—would have only a 0.1% chance of admission absent the athlete tip."

Most kids have a round a 1% chance. That's what happens when tens of thousands of students, thousands of whom have academic records that are virtually indistinguishable, apply to one school.

you understand the difference between 0.1 and 1%? These academic records are not 'virtually indistinguishable' - that's the fallacy. They are distinguishable, but for athletes, they don't matter.

But PP, to be fair you have to admit that many times a great athlete is also a great student. I have seen this is my own kid's HS class. And doesn't it follow: Washington is full of highly driven successful people. ITs a giant funnel for that. So, of course, when two Harvard Law students meet and fall in love and one got into Harvard because she was an Olympic Athlete who had great undergrad grades and the other is a reasonably fit guy who graduated President of Harvard Law review doesn't it make sense that 25 years later their offspring would be a brilliant kid with Olympic qualifying athletic ability.

This is Washington. Come on. Happens every day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't Amherst and Swarthmore similar to Ivy matriculations? And I didn't even include Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, or the service academies, which bumps the total number to over 60 (i.e., about top 20 percent).

Ok, Horton is great similar to all the very top elite private schools. A hidden gem that no one’s ever heard of outside the DMV. We can add Amherst and Swathmore and Bowdoin, etc. to make it to top 20%

I don't even have a connection to Holton! They just happened to be a school that publishes exact matriculation numbers that you can find through Google. Anyway, either you or a different PP used the term "Ivy or similar," not me. Holton had 63 graduates matriculate in a four year period to Ivy League schools plus Stanford, MIT, UChicago, Duke, Hopkins, Northwestern, the service academies, Amherst, and Swarthmore. Which of these schools aren't "similar" in your view? And if you want to take out the two top SLACs in Amherst and Swarthmore, the total is still 60. So the point remains that, on average, 15 Holton graduates each year (about 20 percent) are going to the so-called best of the best colleges. And looking at the class of 2020, six of them (i.e., less than half) were recruited athletes for the schools I'm counting.

Given the available evidence with Holton, I have no reason to think that those touting comparable matriculation numbers for Sidwell, GDS, or the Cathedral schools on DCUM are lying or even exaggerating.