Middle Schools for Cap Hill

[Anonymous]

I am trying to determine if I should put my 4th grader in Thomson for middle school feeder sww stevens. Middle school feeders are limited that are good

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:irrespective of whether you label it good or bad, the demographic change in capitol hill over the past 20 years is massive. in 2003, brent elementary school was 93% black and only 4% white. the capitol hill area middle schools have an entrenched collective action problem. i think individual families see others leaving (moving to suburbs or upper nw and entering the lottery for charter schools), become insecure w the prospect of staying and attending the feeder middle schools, and then do likewise.

It’s wrong to place the blame solely on parents. A huge reason Capitol Hill kids don’t enroll in IB middle schools has to do with zoning — Hill elementary schools feed into three middle schools instead of one or two. Another larger factor is the lack of tracking.

In any case, I was actively planning to send my child to a DCPS middle school but ultimately enrolled in a charter—the lack of a viable high school path was the decisive factor.

There is not a single decent middle school on the Hill and there is no way I’d send anyone to Eastern. We are sticking with charters.

- non white Hill family

[Anonymous]

how did you go about determining they are not decent? im genuinely curious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:irrespective of whether you label it good or bad, the demographic change in capitol hill over the past 20 years is massive. in 2003, brent elementary school was 93% black and only 4% white. the capitol hill area middle schools have an entrenched collective action problem. i think individual families see others leaving (moving to suburbs or upper nw and entering the lottery for charter schools), become insecure w the prospect of staying and attending the feeder middle schools, and then do likewise.

It’s wrong to place the blame solely on parents. A huge reason Capitol Hill kids don’t enroll in IB middle schools has to do with zoning — Hill elementary schools feed into three middle schools instead of one or two. Another larger factor is the lack of tracking.

In any case, I was actively planning to send my child to a DCPS middle school but ultimately enrolled in a charter—the lack of a viable high school path was the decisive factor.

There is not a single decent middle school on the Hill and there is no way I’d send anyone to Eastern. We are sticking with charters.

- non white Hill family

I would happily send folks to Eastern...but not my kids.

[Anonymous]

Reading this is so depressing. The answer is clear and it's right in front of all of us: send all of our kids to the inboundary public middle school and then high school. The end. The quality of the public schools in our neighborhoods depend on the families that attend. You want better ones? Join the PTO and make the school more attractive.

I hear a lot of people on here saying there aren't tracked classes and then that tracked classes are in name only and no one is prepared for the next level. Well, then tracking isn't the solution. Just get a commitment from your other parent friend circles to attend. And do it! The end. That's what happened at Hardy and now all of y'all are salivating over it. Just do it in your own neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

its not entirely true that there arent tracked classes. there are now “advanced” math and english classes at both jefferson and SH. one key to an academically strong middle school experience is having a strong peer cohort (and no this group just needs to reach a critical mass and does not need to include every kid at the school). i think parents get scared the local dcps is a not very good middle school option. they get scared others who earlier made or are making different (charter) school choices must know more than they do with respect to what the best schools are. the result is the reasonably strong elementary school peer cohorts are dispersed rather than combined together to form an even stronger group in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:its not entirely true that there arent tracked classes. there are now “advanced” math and english classes at both jefferson and SH. one key to an academically strong middle school experience is having a strong peer cohort (and no this group just needs to reach a critical mass and does not need to include every kid at the school). i think parents get scared the local dcps is a not very good middle school option. they get scared others who earlier made or are making different (charter) school choices must know more than they do with respect to what the best schools are. the result is the reasonably strong elementary school peer cohorts are dispersed rather than combined together to form an even stronger group in middle school.

The math classes are not advanced really. Advanced in DCPS poorly performing schools is basically grade level. Same at SH.

Plus look at the families who try Jefferson and SH and how many actually stay throughout middle school and not bail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading this is so depressing. The answer is clear and it's right in front of all of us: send all of our kids to the inboundary public middle school and then high school. The end. The quality of the public schools in our neighborhoods depend on the families that attend. You want better ones? Join the PTO and make the school more attractive.

I hear a lot of people on here saying there aren't tracked classes and then that tracked classes are in name only and no one is prepared for the next level. Well, then tracking isn't the solution. Just get a commitment from your other parent friend circles to attend. And do it! The end. That's what happened at Hardy and now all of y'all are salivating over it. Just do it in your own neighborhood.

I know groups of Hill families who have tried to do this, at least for S-H, but it has not worked out. People chicken out and it doesn't take long for everyone else to bail too. No one wants to be the one family that sticks to the plan only to have everyone else flee for charters, privates, and suburbs -- they you'll really feel like you failed your kids because not only has your plan to improve the IB MS fallen apart, now all their friends are elsewhere.

I think one reason it worked at Hardy but you see so people on the Hill struggling is that there are actually a number of viable options for Hill families for MS outside the IB. Two Rivers, ITS, CHML, Basis, Latin. All of these are more viable for Hill families than for Hardy. Plus PPs are right that having the Hill divided among three MS also undercuts the ability to create a cohort. One thing I've seen happen is that people get influenced by what their friends at other schools are doing. So for instance if you have friends at Brent and they aren't even looking at Jefferson as a possibility (common) and eyeing Basis instead, then even if your feeder is S-H, that is going to make you give Basis a harder look than if they were just going to Jefferson. So it's not just that any cohort is split between 3 schools, it's that dissatisfaction with Jeffersion and EH seems to spill over into S-H families because there is a lot of mixing among families on the Hill outside of school boundaries. As another PP pointed out, people tend to put a lot of faith in what their friends with older kids have done, too, because as a parent it's hard to chart a new path.

But anyway, I don't think people on the Hill "salivate" over Hardy that much. I think the main envy is Wilson. And Wilson was already established as a good option before Hardy started retaining more students, because Deal was already established. But Eastern doesn't have a feeder like Deal. Eastern is an incredibly tough sell for any family who is invested in their kid going to college. It's really hard for me to imagine sending my kid there even if we do stick with the plan to go to S-H. Eastern is the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its not entirely true that there arent tracked classes. there are now “advanced” math and english classes at both jefferson and SH. one key to an academically strong middle school experience is having a strong peer cohort (and no this group just needs to reach a critical mass and does not need to include every kid at the school). i think parents get scared the local dcps is a not very good middle school option. they get scared others who earlier made or are making different (charter) school choices must know more than they do with respect to what the best schools are. the result is the reasonably strong elementary school peer cohorts are dispersed rather than combined together to form an even stronger group in middle school.

The math classes are not advanced really. Advanced in DCPS poorly performing schools is basically grade level. Same at SH.

Plus look at the families who try Jefferson and SH and how many actually stay throughout middle school and not bail.

Not PP, but the fact that there are advanced classes demonstrates that there is some level of differentiation, contrary to the suggestion of some on here that all kids are mixed together in the same classes regardless of aptitude. In addition, my personal experience as a parent of a kid currently at Jefferson is that there is a solid effort to place kids of similar aptitudes in cohorts for the main, non-elective classes. And I am fully confident that my child will do very well in life. Not just fine, but very well.

I realize that Jefferson and SH might not be the best fit for everyone, but if you’re going to look at families who left, I would also look at families whose kids graduated from these schools and are now happily attending selective high schools like Walls and Banneker.

[Anonymous]

It is true that schools like SH, Jeff, and EH separate out the kids who can perform at least at grade level from the kids who are not performing at or near grade level. They do this formally through "advanced" classes at SH or "IB" classes at EH, or in informal ways at Jefferson, for example. Most kids from Brent, Maury, SWS, LT will be placed in these classes. But this does not mean that these students are offered "advanced" programming akin to what is offered in NW, the burbs, or BASIS. Parents should be aware that the term "advanced" is used differently in different places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading this is so depressing. The answer is clear and it's right in front of all of us: send all of our kids to the inboundary public middle school and then high school. The end. The quality of the public schools in our neighborhoods depend on the families that attend. You want better ones? Join the PTO and make the school more attractive.

I hear a lot of people on here saying there aren't tracked classes and then that tracked classes are in name only and no one is prepared for the next level. Well, then tracking isn't the solution. Just get a commitment from your other parent friend circles to attend. And do it! The end. That's what happened at Hardy and now all of y'all are salivating over it. Just do it in your own neighborhood.

Hardy is a path to Wilson. The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its not entirely true that there arent tracked classes. there are now “advanced” math and english classes at both jefferson and SH. one key to an academically strong middle school experience is having a strong peer cohort (and no this group just needs to reach a critical mass and does not need to include every kid at the school). i think parents get scared the local dcps is a not very good middle school option. they get scared others who earlier made or are making different (charter) school choices must know more than they do with respect to what the best schools are. the result is the reasonably strong elementary school peer cohorts are dispersed rather than combined together to form an even stronger group in middle school.

The math classes are not advanced really. Advanced in DCPS poorly performing schools is basically grade level. Same at SH.

Plus look at the families who try Jefferson and SH and how many actually stay throughout middle school and not bail.

I have not seen that data published but it sounds interesting. Can you please cite to where you saw it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its not entirely true that there arent tracked classes. there are now “advanced” math and english classes at both jefferson and SH. one key to an academically strong middle school experience is having a strong peer cohort (and no this group just needs to reach a critical mass and does not need to include every kid at the school). i think parents get scared the local dcps is a not very good middle school option. they get scared others who earlier made or are making different (charter) school choices must know more than they do with respect to what the best schools are. the result is the reasonably strong elementary school peer cohorts are dispersed rather than combined together to form an even stronger group in middle school.

The math classes are not advanced really. Advanced in DCPS poorly performing schools is basically grade level. Same at SH.

Plus look at the families who try Jefferson and SH and how many actually stay throughout middle school and not bail.

I have not seen that data published but it sounds interesting. Can you please cite to where you saw it?

(Spoiler alert: For the last reported and audited year of data available SH and Hardy have almost identical reenrollment percentages. And Deal is only 5% points higher, which is much less a gap than one would think given that when a kid gets through 8th at Deal they are guaranteed Wilson.)

My point here is that the "information" you hear from your two neighbors who know someone who know someone and the uninformed masses on DCUM aren't actually reliable sources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its not entirely true that there arent tracked classes. there are now “advanced” math and english classes at both jefferson and SH. one key to an academically strong middle school experience is having a strong peer cohort (and no this group just needs to reach a critical mass and does not need to include every kid at the school). i think parents get scared the local dcps is a not very good middle school option. they get scared others who earlier made or are making different (charter) school choices must know more than they do with respect to what the best schools are. the result is the reasonably strong elementary school peer cohorts are dispersed rather than combined together to form an even stronger group in middle school.

The math classes are not advanced really. Advanced in DCPS poorly performing schools is basically grade level. Same at SH.

Plus look at the families who try Jefferson and SH and how many actually stay throughout middle school and not bail.

I have not seen that data published but it sounds interesting. Can you please cite to where you saw it?

Most of the SH families I know have stayed through 8th. I've heard good things about SH; the only reason we passed on SH is that you then have to figure out high school. By going to a strong charter middle school with a high school, we've avoided that worry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading this is so depressing. The answer is clear and it's right in front of all of us: send all of our kids to the inboundary public middle school and then high school. The end. The quality of the public schools in our neighborhoods depend on the families that attend. You want better ones? Join the PTO and make the school more attractive.

I hear a lot of people on here saying there aren't tracked classes and then that tracked classes are in name only and no one is prepared for the next level. Well, then tracking isn't the solution. Just get a commitment from your other parent friend circles to attend. And do it! The end. That's what happened at Hardy and now all of y'all are salivating over it. Just do it in your own neighborhood.

I know groups of Hill families who have tried to do this, at least for S-H, but it has not worked out. People chicken out and it doesn't take long for everyone else to bail too. No one wants to be the one family that sticks to the plan only to have everyone else flee for charters, privates, and suburbs -- they you'll really feel like you failed your kids because not only has your plan to improve the IB MS fallen apart, now all their friends are elsewhere.

I think one reason it worked at Hardy but you see so people on the Hill struggling is that there are actually a number of viable options for Hill families for MS outside the IB. Two Rivers, ITS, CHML, Basis, Latin. All of these are more viable for Hill families than for Hardy. Plus PPs are right that having the Hill divided among three MS also undercuts the ability to create a cohort. One thing I've seen happen is that people get influenced by what their friends at other schools are doing. So for instance if you have friends at Brent and they aren't even looking at Jefferson as a possibility (common) and eyeing Basis instead, then even if your feeder is S-H, that is going to make you give Basis a harder look than if they were just going to Jefferson. So it's not just that any cohort is split between 3 schools, it's that dissatisfaction with Jeffersion and EH seems to spill over into S-H families because there is a lot of mixing among families on the Hill outside of school boundaries. As another PP pointed out, people tend to put a lot of faith in what their friends with older kids have done, too, because as a parent it's hard to chart a new path.

But anyway, I don't think people on the Hill "salivate" over Hardy that much. I think the main envy is Wilson. And Wilson was already established as a good option before Hardy started retaining more students, because Deal was already established. But Eastern doesn't have a feeder like Deal. Eastern is an incredibly tough sell for any family who is invested in their kid going to college. It's really hard for me to imagine sending my kid there even if we do stick with the plan to go to S-H. Eastern is the problem.

All of this

It's even worse for high school

Anybody still in DCPS who cares about education is going to go Walls or Banneker for HS, the former super woke school board rep eventually broke down and sent his kid to Walls over Eastern, can't blame him

If DCPS was smart they would have 1 hill based honors type public middle school and then funnel that into a high school ala what was done to make Deal/Wilson.