Another Pomona College Lottery

[Anonymous]

It seems the school cannot handle the majors.

As a mom, this honestly worries me.

Students are choosing a school like Pomona believing they’ll have the freedom to explore and pursue what they’re passionate about—only to find out *after they arrive* that getting into a major like cognitive science depends on a lottery? That doesn’t sit right.

I understand departments are stretched thin and faculty can’t do it all, but this feels like something families and students should know upfront. College is already such a big investment—emotionally and financially—and kids shouldn’t feel “lucky” just to study what they love.

I really hope the school finds a way to support the demand instead of limiting opportunity. Students deserve better transparency and access to the paths they came for: https://tsl.news/pomona-colleges-cognitive-science-major-lottery-is-a-nightmare/

[Anonymous]

This is why students and families need to research issues with class registration and course availability. There are some popular large state schools where it’s very difficult to register for classes, many are offered online, etc.

[Anonymous]

Is this a common thing at other schools or limited to SLACs?

[Anonymous]

I'm sure they'll resolve it soon. They had a CS crisis a few years ago and things are back to normal now.

This is an ongoing issue at many top LACs where career-minded students are largely looking at ~6 fields of interest: CS/cognitive science, economics, math/data science, physics, political science/IR (pre-law), and biology/biochem/neuroscience (pre-med). Most other departments, especially those in languages and humanities, are struggling with major enrollment despite having substantial faculty. Tenure track faculty cannot be removed easily to help a needy department, and hiring faculty is largely dependent on accreditation recommendations rather than short-term demands. The consequence is that when an unexpected wave of popularity happens, especially coupled with tenure track professors on sabbatical or administrative duties, it can create problems.

Research universities have plenty of graduate students to shoulder the burden of advising and mentoring students, even with surges in popularity. Liberal art colleges emphasize the exclusive faculty-student advisor relationship. In order to provide that experience to their majors, some schools will have to use lotteries to limit enrollment to prevent overburdening professors. It sucks but it's usually temporary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this a common thing at other schools or limited to SLACs?

The data point here is just Pomona.

[Anonymous]

Yeah my son is in at Pomona and for the major he wants, there are only two faculty members. The other school he’s considering has 13 faculty members. Definitely gives me pause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah my son is in at Pomona and for the major he wants, there are only two faculty members. The other school he’s considering has 13 faculty members. Definitely gives me pause.

Which department?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure they'll resolve it soon. They had a CS crisis a few years ago and things are back to normal now.

This is an ongoing issue at many top LACs where career-minded students are largely looking at ~6 fields of interest: CS/cognitive science, economics, math/data science, physics, political science/IR (pre-law), and biology/biochem/neuroscience (pre-med). Most other departments, especially those in languages and humanities, are struggling with major enrollment despite having substantial faculty. Tenure track faculty cannot be removed easily to help a needy department, and hiring faculty is largely dependent on accreditation recommendations rather than short-term demands. The consequence is that when an unexpected wave of popularity happens, especially coupled with tenure track professors on sabbatical or administrative duties, it can create problems.

Research universities have plenty of graduate students to shoulder the burden of advising and mentoring students, even with surges in popularity. Liberal art colleges emphasize the exclusive faculty-student advisor relationship. In order to provide that experience to their majors, some schools will have to use lotteries to limit enrollment to prevent overburdening professors. It sucks but it's usually temporary.

Why are "CS/Cognitive science" listed together I wonder? Are they at all related to each other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this a common thing at other schools or limited to SLACs?

It’s far more common at competitive public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure they'll resolve it soon. They had a CS crisis a few years ago and things are back to normal now.

This is an ongoing issue at many top LACs where career-minded students are largely looking at ~6 fields of interest: CS/cognitive science, economics, math/data science, physics, political science/IR (pre-law), and biology/biochem/neuroscience (pre-med). Most other departments, especially those in languages and humanities, are struggling with major enrollment despite having substantial faculty. Tenure track faculty cannot be removed easily to help a needy department, and hiring faculty is largely dependent on accreditation recommendations rather than short-term demands. The consequence is that when an unexpected wave of popularity happens, especially coupled with tenure track professors on sabbatical or administrative duties, it can create problems.

Research universities have plenty of graduate students to shoulder the burden of advising and mentoring students, even with surges in popularity. Liberal art colleges emphasize the exclusive faculty-student advisor relationship. In order to provide that experience to their majors, some schools will have to use lotteries to limit enrollment to prevent overburdening professors. It sucks but it's usually temporary.

Why are "CS/Cognitive science" listed together I wonder? Are they at all related to each other?

They are distinct. Cognitive Science is an interdisciplinary field of study encompassing psychology, neuroscience, philosophy. Some kids add more computer science to this to move it in the AI direction. Others will add more psych or more neuroscience. Each kid makes it their own in a way

[Anonymous]

Given how small these LACs are, the total number of students affected is still relatively small. Based on this article, around 15 years ago, 7 students wanted to major in cog sci and last year it increased to 23 students. I guess now there are a few more who enjoy the subject and want to major in it.

Seems like Pomona could just solve the problem of mismatch of supply and demand by following Pitzer's lead and restricting their cog sci major to Pomona majors alone. Currently, Scripps, CMC and Mudd students can also major off-campus in cog sci at Pomona (but not Pitzer). Pitzer takes care of its own students, seems like Pomona should do the same.

I think as small colleges in the 5Cs can't field fully staff every departments in every subject, the future may bring more of this. More majors following Pitzer's lead of limiting that to only their own students. And less cross-majoring and cross-registering will be available across the 5Cs unless space allows (which here it doesn't).

[Anonymous]

Another day, another troll.

No need to overreact, people, unless your kid committed to Pomona with the genuine desire to major in cognitive science. Let's be honest: that's exactly none of you. It's one sub-major. And the same phenomenon is common in universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given how small these LACs are, the total number of students affected is still relatively small. Based on this article, around 15 years ago, 7 students wanted to major in cog sci and last year it increased to 23 students. I guess now there are a few more who enjoy the subject and want to major in it.

Seems like Pomona could just solve the problem of mismatch of supply and demand by following Pitzer's lead and restricting their cog sci major to Pomona majors alone. Currently, Scripps, CMC and Mudd students can also major off-campus in cog sci at Pomona (but not Pitzer). Pitzer takes care of its own students, seems like Pomona should do the same.

I think as small colleges in the 5Cs can't field fully staff every departments in every subject, the future may bring more of this. More majors following Pitzer's lead of limiting that to only their own students. And less cross-majoring and cross-registering will be available across the 5Cs unless space allows (which here it doesn't).

true. I think 5Cs are going to gradually limit the cross-registering over time between colleges because of precisely this problem. they already are (like pitzer for cog sci) because they are too small to fully staff a full dept in each college and it limits their own students from getting into the majors they want. the whole consortium is only the size of wake forest (under 6000 students) so even a whole, the 5c consortium is even a bit smaller than most midsize colleges and only a few thousand larger than wesleyan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how small these LACs are, the total number of students affected is still relatively small. Based on this article, around 15 years ago, 7 students wanted to major in cog sci and last year it increased to 23 students. I guess now there are a few more who enjoy the subject and want to major in it.

Seems like Pomona could just solve the problem of mismatch of supply and demand by following Pitzer's lead and restricting their cog sci major to Pomona majors alone. Currently, Scripps, CMC and Mudd students can also major off-campus in cog sci at Pomona (but not Pitzer). Pitzer takes care of its own students, seems like Pomona should do the same.

I think as small colleges in the 5Cs can't field fully staff every departments in every subject, the future may bring more of this. More majors following Pitzer's lead of limiting that to only their own students. And less cross-majoring and cross-registering will be available across the 5Cs unless space allows (which here it doesn't).

true. I think 5Cs are going to gradually limit the cross-registering over time between colleges because of precisely this problem. they already are (like pitzer for cog sci) because they are too small to fully staff a full dept in each college and it limits their own students from getting into the majors they want. the whole consortium is only the size of wake forest (under 6000 students) so even a whole, the 5c consortium is even a bit smaller than most midsize colleges and only a few thousand larger than wesleyan.

Meh. Cognitive science isn’t a well supported major at almost any college. Having dedicated faculty in cognitive science is pretty rare- they’re usually faculty stretched across various disciplines (psychology, neuroscience, cs, etc.). It’s not too different from cognitive psychology, and it is only recently popular for Pomona. Pomona has a lot of resources in neuroscience that students take advantage of, with far more courses and professors at the Natural Science Department (Pitzer/Scripps) and CMC’s integrated science.

My son is in a very popular major for all the 5Cs (mathematics). He can easily go to Harvey Mudd, CMC, Pitzer, or Scripps and has to take Bayesian statistics, advanced real analysis, modeling, etc. The colleges are pretty well staffed for most majors. It just happens to be that cognitive science was tiny up until last year.

[Anonymous]

What do you mean lottery? Can you explain it more?