504 for ADHD for kid with good grades

[Anonymous]

My DC got a neuropsych evaluation in late elementary school that recommended a 504; FCPS school he did not really meet criteria because he was doing well in school. He is now in high school and he just got another evaluation done that recommends a 504, including accommodations like extended time, etc. He gets good grades but it takes an enormous amount of effort and time to get work done at home (including going over stuff missed in class bc of distraction). I am not sure how to be better prepared this time to advocate for him. I feel like at the last meeting, the principal and other staff were completely dismissive because he does well in school and has no behavioral issues. Any suggestions?

[Anonymous]

What kind of accommodations do you think he needs?

[Anonymous]

He can still qualify for a 504 even with good grades

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What kind of accommodations do you think he needs?

The 504 specifies things like extended time for tests, ideal seating, no more than 2 tests/day.

[Anonymous]

He's not going to qualify for 504 unless he's showing that he needs accommodations to access the curriculum. Teachers have to show that he demonstrates that need.

[Anonymous]

So I might have a similar situation. Kid in private right now with accommodations. Eligible for 504 per mcps who tested 2 years ago. She gets As because she’s in small classes with lots of support and theaccommodations
She’s also on Ritalin.
We go to public for HS in August and I’m nervous she’s gonna get lost in the crowd.
She doesn’t really need more time, she’s rushes thru things.
I’d like her seated near the front, and verbal communication to make sure she understands the instructions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC got a neuropsych evaluation in late elementary school that recommended a 504; FCPS school he did not really meet criteria because he was doing well in school. He is now in high school and he just got another evaluation done that recommends a 504, including accommodations like extended time, etc. He gets good grades but it takes an enormous amount of effort and time to get work done at home (including going over stuff missed in class bc of distraction). I am not sure how to be better prepared this time to advocate for him. I feel like at the last meeting, the principal and other staff were completely dismissive because he does well in school and has no behavioral issues. Any suggestions?

Suggest hiring an attorney. A case can probably be made but it's going to require careful preparation and advice from someone who knows what they are doing.

[Anonymous]

It’s a stretch OP. 504s are not intended to just make everything easier for all kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He can still qualify for a 504 even with good grades

It’s going to be very, very hard to make the case.

OP should spend the money on tutors not lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What kind of accommodations do you think he needs?

The 504 specifies things like extended time for tests, ideal seating, no more than 2 tests/day.

It also specifies things like "copy of class notes" which is really helpful for kids with ADHD who get distracted in class, plus use of calculator and/or computer for writing. It can also specify accommodations like speech to text or text to speech, spell check, etc.

Really a 504 can specify anything that is "reasonable" (in terms of the burden it places on the school to provide) that isn't "special instruction".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What kind of accommodations do you think he needs?

The 504 specifies things like extended time for tests, ideal seating, no more than 2 tests/day.

It also specifies things like "copy of class notes" which is really helpful for kids with ADHD who get distracted in class, plus use of calculator and/or computer for writing. It can also specify accommodations like speech to text or text to speech, spell check, etc.

Really a 504 can specify anything that is "reasonable" (in terms of the burden it places on the school to provide) that isn't "special instruction".

And none of that is reasonable (or fair) for a kid getting all As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a stretch OP. 504s are not intended to just make everything easier for all kids.

No, you're right. 504s are not intended to make things easier for *all* kids, they are intended to make accommodations for things that are related to a student's disability. Not all kids have disabilities.

For OP's kid, that could look like: extended time and deadlines on assignments because if you have to take a lot more time to do your work because you are constantly redirecting your attention and you have to spend more time re-checking, then 50% extra time on all your work (which is basically what OP says the student is spending now) is really not possible every day. Extended time and deadlines mean that students can spread their work out more reasonably in a way that neuroptypical students do not need to do.

A 504 could also mean copy of class notes or the right to use a notetaking devices in school (note: "privacy" of other students or th teacher does not preclude having a disabled student using a recording device to audio record or take pictures of a whiteboard or assignment written on the board - neither teachers nor students have a privacy right in the classroom).

It is not hard to make the case if you, the parent and student, can produce some evidence of the need. It is also not necessary to have a lawyer if you know your rights and keep the meeting professional. Professionally speaking, for a 504 plan, there are only 2 Qs - does the student have a 1) physical or mental impairment 2) that substantially limits a major life activity?

The "substantially limits" evaluation is done on a case by case basis as compared to most people in the general population and must be made without reference to mitigating measures (like medication, therapy, etc.) which means the student must be evaluated as if they never had any mitigating measures.

Grades alone are never a determining factor in IEP or 504 eligibility. In a 504 eligibility determination grades can be a factor, but so can individual elements of the grade book -- how many times did the student turn in material late? unfinished? not at all? answering some but not all Qs? (all common effects of ADHD). Also to be considered is how much time the ADHD student is spending on homework to maintain good grades. Students may look like ducks gliding smoothly across the water, but some are paddling furiously beneath the surface and that can lead to unhealthy outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a stretch OP. 504s are not intended to just make everything easier for all kids.

No, you're right. 504s are not intended to make things easier for *all* kids, they are intended to make accommodations for things that are related to a student's disability. Not all kids have disabilities.

For OP's kid, that could look like: extended time and deadlines on assignments because if you have to take a lot more time to do your work because you are constantly redirecting your attention and you have to spend more time re-checking, then 50% extra time on all your work (which is basically what OP says the student is spending now) is really not possible every day. Extended time and deadlines mean that students can spread their work out more reasonably in a way that neuroptypical students do not need to do.

A 504 could also mean copy of class notes or the right to use a notetaking devices in school (note: "privacy" of other students or th teacher does not preclude having a disabled student using a recording device to audio record or take pictures of a whiteboard or assignment written on the board - neither teachers nor students have a privacy right in the classroom).

It is not hard to make the case if you, the parent and student, can produce some evidence of the need. It is also not necessary to have a lawyer if you know your rights and keep the meeting professional. Professionally speaking, for a 504 plan, there are only 2 Qs - does the student have a 1) physical or mental impairment 2) that substantially limits a major life activity?

The "substantially limits" evaluation is done on a case by case basis as compared to most people in the general population and must be made without reference to mitigating measures (like medication, therapy, etc.) which means the student must be evaluated as if they never had any mitigating measures.

Grades alone are never a determining factor in IEP or 504 eligibility. In a 504 eligibility determination grades can be a factor, but so can individual elements of the grade book -- how many times did the student turn in material late? unfinished? not at all? answering some but not all Qs? (all common effects of ADHD). Also to be considered is how much time the ADHD student is spending on homework to maintain good grades. Students may look like ducks gliding smoothly across the water, but some are paddling furiously beneath the surface and that can lead to unhealthy outcomes.

No, 504s do not exist to make things easier for kids who don’t actually need accomodations. a paper diagnosis is not a blank check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What kind of accommodations do you think he needs?

The 504 specifies things like extended time for tests, ideal seating, no more than 2 tests/day.

It also specifies things like "copy of class notes" which is really helpful for kids with ADHD who get distracted in class, plus use of calculator and/or computer for writing. It can also specify accommodations like speech to text or text to speech, spell check, etc.

Really a 504 can specify anything that is "reasonable" (in terms of the burden it places on the school to provide) that isn't "special instruction".

A significant number of my students have copies of class notes as an accommodation. I work in an affluent public school, where many have accommodations. All teachers post copies of notes online now for everyone. This is because of Schoology, not because of this accommodation.

I don’t know what you want, OP. You say your kid is spending too much time at home. How would a 504 help? Are you hinting at reduced assignments? That often isn’t appropriate in HS with the content needed to learn material for tests. Is your kid in the right classes? It sounds like it if the grades are As and it sounds like time on tests isn’t an issue since the grades are As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What kind of accommodations do you think he needs?

The 504 specifies things like extended time for tests, ideal seating, no more than 2 tests/day.

It also specifies things like "copy of class notes" which is really helpful for kids with ADHD who get distracted in class, plus use of calculator and/or computer for writing. It can also specify accommodations like speech to text or text to speech, spell check, etc.

Really a 504 can specify anything that is "reasonable" (in terms of the burden it places on the school to provide) that isn't "special instruction".

A significant number of my students have copies of class notes as an accommodation. I work in an affluent public school, where many have accommodations. All teachers post copies of notes online now for everyone. This is because of Schoology, not because of this accommodation.

I don’t know what you want, OP. You say your kid is spending too much time at home. How would a 504 help? Are you hinting at reduced assignments? That often isn’t appropriate in HS with the content needed to learn material for tests. Is your kid in the right classes? It sounds like it if the grades are As and it sounds like time on tests isn’t an issue since the grades are As.

I agree with this second paragraph, it isn’t exactly clear what you think might help so it is hard to know what to advise.

I think if I was in your shoes I would argue that the intensity of the curriculum in HS is much higher and you sense your child might be approaching the frontier of what he can do unaccommodated. Because the stakes are high with HS grades (related to college admissions) and because 504s can’t magically appear overnight, you want the structure in place now. I’m not sure they will embrace that, but I’d really lean on them to make some kind of concession to make 504 accommodations available very quickly if things go south.