Asked to break a (small? Inconsequential?) law 2 times in my career. Anyone else?

[Anonymous]

For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

[Anonymous]

Trust your instincts.

[Anonymous]

Op - first example should say they *should* do it

[Anonymous]

Yes, many times. Those companies are the worst too. They wouldn't hesitate to discard you because they value people like they value laws - nothing.

[Anonymous]

Yes. At one job, any time a former employee filed for unemployment our company fought it. We'd have to have a telephonic hearing with a lawyer representing our company, a rep from Unemployment, and the former employee. I was told to call in for these and say I'm a lawyer. I didn't even graduate from college! So I called in and when the Unemployment rep asked if I was a lawyer I was honest and said no.

Funny thing is, I never ask others to break the law. Every few years I need something notarized and ask a coworker. She knows who I am but I always email her first to ask, and then when I meet her in person with the documents, I also hand her my DL. I would never pull the "you KNOW me though!" thing.

[Anonymous]

No f'ing way. Don't ever become the patsy

[Anonymous]

The first example is arguably fair use
#2 doesn't seem illegal either?!

[Anonymous]

Was asked to lie on an NIH grant application. Basically inventing fake people and resumes to list on the grant so the amount would be hired. I resigned as did a colleague. It made me wonder how common this is.

[Anonymous]

Boss asked me to bill a charge code that I wasn't working on, I said no, so she got someone else to do it.

[Anonymous]

I think people are cavalier about bending rules. In most cases, I would argue that they don't connect the action to breaking the law. So asking you to do these things probably doesn't even register until you bring up the issue.

[Anonymous]

I'm with you and I think there are a lot of unethical people. Whether you'd get caught is not the issue.

I was driving the company car and got to a light with a green arrow and the left turn lane that gets added, but I was in the next lane a few cars back. When the arrow turned green without my lane turning green, my boss told me to cross the yellow line to get into the turn lane to make the left turn. I refused. Then the car behind me did it and got pulled over by a cop who had been hidden by trees. 😁

[Anonymous]

Was asked to sign new timecards the company made up billing my time to projects that were different from those I actually worked on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

You are difficult. Look techincially in college and grad school I would go to library and use xerox machines to copy things. Technically that is what you were doing and no one cares. However, you are correct putting that printed copy in a commercial mailing for for potential financial gain is a copyright violation. But you were not doing that you were just making copies.

And project stuff you are playing a game of being difficult. I started a govt type job and they have a quarterly town hall. My new boss said it was week before I started (on phone) and although he does not have authority to ask me to go, I cant get paid if I decided to attend on my own it be great chance to meet everyone and get overview of priorities next three months and meet your new staff. There will be breakfast served and just two hours. WTF would I ask him to put that in writting. I went, was a great chance. Otherwise I would not have met my co-workers, got a update for three months. It is common. Of course he cant make me go.

I have a difficult staff right now. She makes a stink with is it required and can you confirm with anything. Meanwhile She drives me nuts as fights everything and she is like a greyhound dog. Crazy lady we had a breakfast meeting before work, a lunch meeting wanted to bill OT or get comp time. I said then skip it. Or my favorite it is always not her job unless in the job description. So I do her job sometimes as too much headache. Why I dont know. We litterally had one lunch meeting and one breakfast meeting last year. She did not go. She must be like you. It says since she is on the clock if mandatory she must get paid and she refuses to go unless mandatory. No the the free breakfast at xmas time where we give our prizes and gifts for 45 minutes is not OT.

[Anonymous]

I was constantly pressured to break laws/policy and I didn't.

I wound up being condemned, threatened and insulted (by those seeking to break laws) on a routine basis.

It was my responsibility and official duty to hold the line and I did. I worked for the American people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

You are difficult. Look techincially in college and grad school I would go to library and use xerox machines to copy things. Technically that is what you were doing and no one cares. However, you are correct putting that printed copy in a commercial mailing for for potential financial gain is a copyright violation. But you were not doing that you were just making copies.

And project stuff you are playing a game of being difficult. I started a govt type job and they have a quarterly town hall. My new boss said it was week before I started (on phone) and although he does not have authority to ask me to go, I cant get paid if I decided to attend on my own it be great chance to meet everyone and get overview of priorities next three months and meet your new staff. There will be breakfast served and just two hours. WTF would I ask him to put that in writting. I went, was a great chance. Otherwise I would not have met my co-workers, got a update for three months. It is common. Of course he cant make me go.

I have a difficult staff right now. She makes a stink with is it required and can you confirm with anything. Meanwhile She drives me nuts as fights everything and she is like a greyhound dog. Crazy lady we had a breakfast meeting before work, a lunch meeting wanted to bill OT or get comp time. I said then skip it. Or my favorite it is always not her job unless in the job description. So I do her job sometimes as too much headache. Why I dont know. We litterally had one lunch meeting and one breakfast meeting last year. She did not go. She must be like you. It says since she is on the clock if mandatory she must get paid and she refuses to go unless mandatory. No the the free breakfast at xmas time where we give our prizes and gifts for 45 minutes is not OT.

Sounds like you like to take advantage of people.