Political Hypocrisy?

[Anonymous]

I have a sincere question about political hypocrisy. I know this conversation could go off the rails quickly, but I’m genuinely hoping for some real insight before it devolves into shouting matches from the far left or far right.

For the record, I’m a registered Republican—but not a Trump Republican—and I make an honest effort to cross-check information from both liberal and conservative sources before forming opinions. That said, here are a few things I struggle to reconcile:
   •   Why did Trump’s deportation policies provoke such outrage when Obama actually deported more people during his time in office?
   •   Why do people say Trump “put kids in cages” when the chain-link enclosures at the border were first built and used under the Obama administration?
   •   How can anyone argue, in good faith, that Joe Biden is mentally sharp or fully cognizant?
   •   Why is Trump constantly accused of “destroying democracy” when the U.S. isn’t technically a pure democracy to begin with?
   •   Juneteenth is celebrated as the end of slavery in the U.S., but it wasn’t actually the last instance—some Native American nations, like the Choctaw, still held Black slaves months afterward. And the fact that people of color owned slaves is almost never discussed.
   •   And don’t get me started on slogans like “Queers for Palestine.” It seems like the ultimate test of loving your neighbor—until you realize that in many places under Palestinian control, LGBTQ+ individuals face severe persecution. How does that reconcile?

There’s a lot more I’m sure but this is just off the top of my head. How does anyone in the center reconcile all of this?

Last question: will we ever return to a society where people can disagree, even strongly, without being canceled, shouted down, or dismissed with lines like, “It’s not my job to educate you”?

I’m open to real dialogue here—not trolling, not tribalism. Just looking for perspectives grounded in facts, logic, and a little humility.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I have a sincere question about political hypocrisy. I know this conversation could go off the rails quickly, but I’m genuinely hoping for some real insight before it devolves into shouting matches from the far left or far right.

For the record, I’m a registered Republican—but not a Trump Republican—and I make an honest effort to cross-check information from both liberal and conservative sources before forming opinions. That said, here are a few things I struggle to reconcile:
   •   Why did Trump’s deportation policies provoke such outrage when Obama actually deported more people during his time in office?
   •   Why do people say Trump “put kids in cages” when the chain-link enclosures at the border were first built and used under the Obama administration?
   •   How can anyone argue, in good faith, that Joe Biden is mentally sharp or fully cognizant?
   •   Why is Trump constantly accused of “destroying democracy” when the U.S. isn’t technically a pure democracy to begin with?
   •   Juneteenth is celebrated as the end of slavery in the U.S., but it wasn’t actually the last instance—some Native American nations, like the Choctaw, still held Black slaves months afterward. And the fact that people of color owned slaves is almost never discussed.
   •   And don’t get me started on slogans like “Queers for Palestine.” It seems like the ultimate test of loving your neighbor—until you realize that in many places under Palestinian control, LGBTQ+ individuals face severe persecution. How does that reconcile?

There’s a lot more I’m sure but this is just off the top of my head. How does anyone in the center reconcile all of this?

Last question: will we ever return to a society where people can disagree, even strongly, without being canceled, shouted down, or dismissed with lines like, “It’s not my job to educate you”?

I’m open to real dialogue here—not trolling, not tribalism. Just looking for perspectives grounded in facts, logic, and a little humility.

Obama deported people who had just been detained crossing the border. He was actually criticized by Republicans for including those in his deportation numbers because Republicans didn't consider them real deportations. Trump, in contrast, is deporting people who have been here for years, planted roots, and become part of their communities. Both were wrong in my opinion and both deserve criticism, though for different reasons.

Obama created the cages to handle unaccompanied minors who needed to be kept separate from adults. Trump used them to separate families. Again, both were wrong in my opinion and both deserve criticism, but for different reasons.

Biden was mentally cognizant enough to create a growing economy that was rebuilding its industrial base. Trump, on the other hand, believes that "groceries" is an old term that he has to define for people. My question for you is how you can be concerned about Biden's mental competence without being similarly concerned about Trump's.

The U.S. was established as a democratic republic. Trump is destroying that. This sort of question suggests a severe lack of knowledge on your part and causes me to doubt whether or not you are really acting in good faith. Trump has already marginalized the legislative branch by relying on illegal executive orders. He is now trying to hobble the judiciary branch. By establishing an executive branch that has no checks, Trump is establishing a dictatorship. That should be obvious to you.

At the end of the Civil War, the Choctaw nation was not part of the United States. Juneteenth marks the end of U.S. government sanctioned slavery in the South. At that time, there were still slaves in Delaware and Kentucky. Why are you complaining about Choctaws and not the Americans who still held slaves?

If you believe in rights, you must believe that they are universal. Trump, and apparently you, see everything as transactional. That suggests a lack of belief in real values. You cannot claim to oppose genocide yet support it because you don't like the people being murdered. If that is your position, you actually support genocide. Free speech is famously said to be important for speech you oppose rather than speech you support. That is true in the case of every right. You can't take the position that people deserve certain rights but only if they adhere to a list of values you support. That would not be a right, but rather a privilege.

[Anonymous]

Because Trump and MAGA does everything in the most hamfisted way with the most collateral damage, while spewing constant lies and hatred based on people's innate physical characteristics.

Republicans were always (since the Evangelical Christian takeover in the 20th Century) callous and bigoted. (You see yourself that you apparently support the genocide of Palestinians because LGBTQ are oppressed, while ignoring your own blatant hypocrisy that Republicans are trying to kill LGBTQ people). Trump made them openly cruel at the highest level of politics, instead of trying to hide it.

[Anonymous]

"The U.S. was established as a democratic republic. Trump is destroying that. This sort of question suggests a severe lack of knowledge on your part and causes me to doubt whether or not you are really acting in good faith. Trump has already marginalized the legislative branch by relying on illegal executive orders. He is now trying to hobble the judiciary branch. By establishing an executive branch that has no checks, Trump is establishing a dictatorship. That should be obvious to you."

DP.

You talk about hobbling the judiciary.

Didn't Joe Biden hobble the legislative branch when he refused to enforce the border controls as head of the executive branch?

Review the Vesting Clause of the Constitution. Bringing every issue up in the judiciary because you believe it isn't an open question doesn't stand.

Even the Ninth Circuit court is unanimously pushing back against the very ideas you espouse. See the decision by them this past week.

[Anonymous]

Correction: Bringing every issue up in the judiciary because you believe it is an open question doesn't stand.

[Anonymous]

Me again: Trump's control of National Guard in Los Angeles upheld in major ruling.

This was never in question. Every president has enjoyed this power. So why was it brought up in court? To slow the process?

[Anonymous]

Article II, Section 1: “The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States.”

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:"The U.S. was established as a democratic republic. Trump is destroying that. This sort of question suggests a severe lack of knowledge on your part and causes me to doubt whether or not you are really acting in good faith. Trump has already marginalized the legislative branch by relying on illegal executive orders. He is now trying to hobble the judiciary branch. By establishing an executive branch that has no checks, Trump is establishing a dictatorship. That should be obvious to you."

DP.

You talk about hobbling the judiciary.

Didn't Joe Biden hobble the legislative branch when he refused to enforce the border controls as head of the executive branch?

Review the Vesting Clause of the Constitution. Bringing every issue up in the judiciary because you believe it isn't an open question doesn't stand.

Even the Ninth Circuit court is unanimously pushing back against the very ideas you espouse. See the decision by them this past week.

You guys always react the same way. You try to "whatabout" Joe Biden. If Biden did something wrong, that was wrong. If Trump is doing the same thing, it is still wrong. Why do you believe that two wrongs make a right? Isn't that something that you are taught not to believe as a child?

In fact, both Biden and Obama were often their own worst enemies by relying too heavily on Congress and attempting to be bipartisan. That is far different than Trump rule by Sharpie. Biden didn't refuse to enforce border controls. Rather, he followed existing U.S. law by honoring asylum applications.

A simple reading of the Constitution should persuade you that the President does not have the right to make law simply but signing an Executive Order. These are being brought to courts because they are illegal, exactly as courts have been finding them. Even Trump-appointed judges are making such findings. Why do you hate our system of checks and balances?

Biden's EOs were constantly stopped by Judges. People like you claimed that showed his actions were illegal. Now, when it happens to Trump, you have a different opinion. It is find to act in a politically partisan manner. Everyone has their biases. But just own it. Admit that you have different standards for Biden and Trump.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Me again: Trump's control of National Guard in Los Angeles upheld in major ruling.

This was never in question. Every president has enjoyed this power. So why was it brought up in court? To slow the process?

Read Beyer's opinion. There is a legitimate question about whether the President acted lawfully. Beyond the question of whether he legally took control the Guard. There is now an issue of Posse Comitatus. There was no delay. Beyer stayed his own opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Me again: Trump's control of National Guard in Los Angeles upheld in major ruling.

This was never in question. Every president has enjoyed this power. So why was it brought up in court? To slow the process?

They just kicked it back to the lower court. They did not agree that Trump can do whatever he wants just because he’s a big baby.

[Anonymous]

The hypocrisy I see is an over focus on outcome rather than process. That's why we can't have nice things, i.e. that's why people can't "simply disagree, even vehemently." One party, and it's the one in office currently, is abusing the systems in place and people are eating it up because they like the outcomes. But if you hold that same process up to an outcome you don't favor, now it's a problem. It's what's destroying our democracy, and you know exactly what's meant by that OP.

[Anonymous]

Deportations
There is an important distinction in how Obama’s deportations were carried out. Obama focused primarily on recent border crossers and people with criminal records. Trump’s policies expanded deportations to include long-standing residents, separated families at the border as a deterrent, and emphasized cruelty as a feature, not a bug.
The outrage under Trump was about intent and tone, not just numbers.


Kids in cages
Yes, the infamous chain-link enclosures were first built under Obama, largely as a temporary measure. And yes, the imagery is upsetting regardless of who’s president. But again, the difference lies in policy and implementation. Obama didn’t have a blanket family separation policy; when children were detained, it was often because they were unaccompanied. Under Trump, the deliberate separation of thousands of children from their parents, with no clear plan for reunification, was unprecedented in scale and cruelty. That’s what sparked the public backlash.

Trump destroying democracy
You’re right that we’re not a pure democracy. We’re a constitutional republic. But when people say Trump is a threat to democracy, they mean his actions undermine democratic norms: trying to overturn a fair election, pressuring state officials to “find votes,” refusing a peaceful transfer of power, and encouraging an insurrection. It’s not about textbook definitions, it’s about the spirit of democracy. Undermining faith in elections, refusing to accept defeat, and elevating loyalty over rule of law, those are deeply concerning in any system.

Juneteenth
You’re absolutely right that slavery didn’t end instantly on June 19, 1865, and that some Native nations continued enslaving people. It’s important to teach and acknowledge all those nuances. But Juneteenth is symbolic, a celebration of when the last major group of enslaved people learned they were free, not an attempt to erase complex history. And yes, some Black individuals owned slaves, but the scale, context, and power dynamics were entirely different from the institutionalized, race-based system supported by white elites. We should teach all of it, but we shouldn’t use lesser-known facts to deflect from the main historical narrative.

[Anonymous]

Queers for Palestine
You’re absolutely right. LGBTQ+ rights in Gaza and parts of the Middle East are abysmal. Many of us on the left are painfully aware of this. But the “Queers for Palestine” slogan isn’t usually support for Hamas, it’s often a critique of what some view as Israel’s military occupation and the broader injustice faced by Palestinians. That doesn’t mean people should ignore the dangers queer Palestinians face. They absolutely should not. But solidarity doesn’t always mean endorsement. It can mean standing with marginalized people under occupation, even when their society has its own problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a sincere question about political hypocrisy. I know this conversation could go off the rails quickly, but I’m genuinely hoping for some real insight before it devolves into shouting matches from the far left or far right.

For the record, I’m a registered Republican—but not a Trump Republican—and I make an honest effort to cross-check information from both liberal and conservative sources before forming opinions. That said, here are a few things I struggle to reconcile:
   •   Why did Trump’s deportation policies provoke such outrage when Obama actually deported more people during his time in office?
   •   Why do people say Trump “put kids in cages” when the chain-link enclosures at the border were first built and used under the Obama administration?
   •   How can anyone argue, in good faith, that Joe Biden is mentally sharp or fully cognizant?
   •   Why is Trump constantly accused of “destroying democracy” when the U.S. isn’t technically a pure democracy to begin with?
   •   Juneteenth is celebrated as the end of slavery in the U.S., but it wasn’t actually the last instance—some Native American nations, like the Choctaw, still held Black slaves months afterward. And the fact that people of color owned slaves is almost never discussed.
   •   And don’t get me started on slogans like “Queers for Palestine.” It seems like the ultimate test of loving your neighbor—until you realize that in many places under Palestinian control, LGBTQ+ individuals face severe persecution. How does that reconcile?

There’s a lot more I’m sure but this is just off the top of my head. How does anyone in the center reconcile all of this?

Last question: will we ever return to a society where people can disagree, even strongly, without being canceled, shouted down, or dismissed with lines like, “It’s not my job to educate you”?

I’m open to real dialogue here—not trolling, not tribalism. Just looking for perspectives grounded in facts, logic, and a little humility.

You are MAGA to your core!

[Anonymous]

Why did Trump’s deportation policies provoke such outrage when Obama actually deported more people during his time in office?
• Why do people say Trump “put kids in cages” when the chain-link enclosures at the border were first built and used under the Obama administration?
• How can anyone argue, in good faith, that Joe Biden is mentally sharp or fully cognizant?
• Why is Trump constantly accused of “destroying democracy” when the U.S. isn’t technically a pure democracy to begin with?
• Juneteenth is celebrated as the end of slavery in the U.S., but it wasn’t actually the last instance—some Native American nations, like the Choctaw, still held Black slaves months afterward. And the fact that people of color owned slaves is almost never discussed.
• And don’t get me started on slogans like “Queers for Palestine.” It seems like the ultimate test of loving your neighbor—until you realize that in many places under Palestinian control, LGBTQ+ individuals face severe persecution. How does that reconcile?

Most people are not against deportation. However, under Trump we are living in a country where men in masks grab people and their loved ones have a hard time finding them. People are taken when they try to do the right thing and show up to court. This isn't the deportations anyone expected except the cruelest citizens.

I have to honestly ask how can anyone argue, in good faith, that Trump is mentally sharp? He rambles terribly. He doesn't know American history (multiple examples, with a recent comment that made it obvious he thinks the Declaration of Independence has something to do with the Civil War). His written communication is bizarre.
To answer your question, we knew that Biden wasn't sharp anymore. However, we also knew that he had spent his life in public service and surrounded himself with people that understood their jobs and were qualified to do them. I think Kamala Harris would have brought energy into the White House and she is capable of understanding nuance and consequences in a way that Trump cannot. I also think that he has never experienced life outside of the bubble of wealth and cannot imagine the daily use of the word "groceries"; Kamala was a more ordinary American.

Trump is stomping all over the checks and balances norms that our government is supposed to be built on. The accessing of information by DOGE can never be undone. That access wasn't approved by Congress and most of the employees were never vetted properly. This is just one example of widespread harm caused by Trump; our secure information is forever compromised. And the secure information of our elected representatives has also been compromised, which means the coercion that can potentially occur is frightening.

Native American nations are not the US. Juneteenth is worth celebrating as the day the last slaves in the US were freed.

I don't see a whole lot of "Queers for Palestine" signs. I suppose we could find all sorts of slogans out there. The big picture is what matters, which is that a whole lot of innocents, a whole lot of children, have been suffering or killed in Gaza. So if a queer person wants to say that they acknowledge the horrors, they can, irrespective of how they themselves might be treated. It's a matter of thinking of others. I respect Jewish people, I respect Israel, and I also respect the lives of Palestinian people. I respect LGBTQ+ people even though I'm straight. I respect People of Color even though I'm white. I respect evangelical Christians and Muslims and others even though I'm a liberal Christian. We don't have to agree with others to respect their right to live peacefully.