Where and how to work on this skill with my teen?

[Anonymous]

DS (13) is ADHD, never got a ASD diagnosis but has a lot of personality quirks like ASD.

He's always struggled with new people, situations he wasn't anticipating etc. Even as a baby or toddler, putting him into a setting with new people was when he was at his worst - completely discombobulated, badly behaved, didn't apply social norms. In our own house, he's polite and in control.

We've worked on certain situations - like if someone is coming to house, tell him he's expected to shake hands, make eye contact. He doesn't pull it off quite like NT kids (darting eye contact, slouchy) but he makes a good effort and it's close enough. He's also quite good in restaurants with servers (eye contact, clear voice etc) because we've done training on expectations.

But when we're not expecting a scenario, his behavior is unacceptable. He started a new summer camp yesterday that is a cool program run through the county courts. He really really wanted to do this camp so was excited in the lead up. Kids have a dress code etc. But when i dropped him off, i was so embarrassed by his behavior. He was slouchy, no eye contact, having big rude yawns while we were doing sign in. I know DS, and these are his 'social anxiety 101' symptoms. He's not perfect in our home life, but he's certainly a lot better than that. Even the yawning is like an involuntary stress response, but then his body language surrounding the whole thing is so rude. The other kids were all coming in shaking hands, etc even if they were visably nervous. DS's behavior came across as straight up rude, not nervous. We came down on him hard that night, told him expectations, why this matters, etc. Today was better.

For what it's worth, he comes across very quirky and social inept, but he actually fails a lot of ASD criteria because he understands a lot of social requirements, but is just simply indifferent to them. He's indifferent to having deep friends (prefers books and ideas) so he doesn't care about impressions, body language, hair, clothes.

Does anyone have any ideas for where a SN kid can build these skills like learning about body language, impressions, etc? Is something like cotillion my best bet? Or would that be cruel and unusual for a SN ASD kid because all the other kids are rich snoots (or maybe I watched too many 80s movies)? Or is this just a thing that mom and dad have to keep drilling into him? Are there smaller group settings to work on these skills? I imagine if i drop him into a big program with lots of kids, the problems are just exacerbated?

[Anonymous]

Why is it important for him to look NT? If difficulty making eye contact and slouching are signs of anxiety, I'm surprised you aren't asking how to help with his anxiety, rather than make himself more uncomfortable hiding his anxiety.

Eye contact can be painful for many ND people. It can also make it more difficult for them to focus, pay attention, and participate. This should not be the thing you focus on.

[Anonymous]

Since he needs anticipation, can you have a code word that means "Do your polite routine of eye contact, handshake, clear voice"? So he can be comfortable with the code word and know it should trigger certain behavior?

[Anonymous]

First of all, he probably would get an autism diagnosis under the verrrrry broad definition used now. Not that I think that route is at all necessary.

Second, I think you just continue doing what you are doing - but stop making it so critical on your part. He doesn’t sound all that far off in terms of expectations so try to be more supportive and positive about it.

Like - my 13 year old needs to take better care of his skin but instead of me telling him he is doing it wrong, I bought him some nice products and we are going to do a skin care routine together (I call it Mom Salon).

Fourth let a lot of stuff go. It’s ok if he is slouchier than you’d like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is it important for him to look NT? If difficulty making eye contact and slouching are signs of anxiety, I'm surprised you aren't asking how to help with his anxiety, rather than make himself more uncomfortable hiding his anxiety.

Eye contact can be painful for many ND people. It can also make it more difficult for them to focus, pay attention, and participate. This should not be the thing you focus on.

I disagree. All kids deserve to be taught that basic politeness means making some eye contact and saying hello. Doesn’t mean you demand it constantly but yes the should be taught. And they also need to learn to make eye contact crucially to ensure that they are understood when they are eg buying something in a store or asking the bus driver if it’s the right bus. It is a basic communication skill.

[Anonymous]

Role playing. Lots of role playing and repetition. Try VBS. If it’s first day jitters that get him just take him to a bunch each summer. Even if he nether l never goes back it’s first day practice he’s getting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it important for him to look NT? If difficulty making eye contact and slouching are signs of anxiety, I'm surprised you aren't asking how to help with his anxiety, rather than make himself more uncomfortable hiding his anxiety.

Eye contact can be painful for many ND people. It can also make it more difficult for them to focus, pay attention, and participate. This should not be the thing you focus on.

I disagree. All kids deserve to be taught that basic politeness means making some eye contact and saying hello. Doesn’t mean you demand it constantly but yes the should be taught. And they also need to learn to make eye contact crucially to ensure that they are understood when they are eg buying something in a store or asking the bus driver if it’s the right bus. It is a basic communication skill.

Why on earth do I need to make eye contact when buying something in a store? I take my items to the cashier, they ring them up, I pay. Eye contact is not needed to be understood.

Politeness requires acknowledging others when interacting with them. It requires looking in their general direction. But eye contact itself is not required. If I look at someone's nose or ears because that allows me to engage in conversation, I have no obligation to make myself uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it important for him to look NT? If difficulty making eye contact and slouching are signs of anxiety, I'm surprised you aren't asking how to help with his anxiety, rather than make himself more uncomfortable hiding his anxiety.

Eye contact can be painful for many ND people. It can also make it more difficult for them to focus, pay attention, and participate. This should not be the thing you focus on.

I disagree. All kids deserve to be taught that basic politeness means making some eye contact and saying hello. Doesn’t mean you demand it constantly but yes the should be taught. And they also need to learn to make eye contact crucially to ensure that they are understood when they are eg buying something in a store or asking the bus driver if it’s the right bus. It is a basic communication skill.

Why on earth do I need to make eye contact when buying something in a store? I take my items to the cashier, they ring them up, I pay. Eye contact is not needed to be understood.

Politeness requires acknowledging others when interacting with them. It requires looking in their general direction. But eye contact itself is not required. If I look at someone's nose or ears because that allows me to engage in conversation, I have no obligation to make myself uncomfortable.

I’m trying to make my child appear normal, you clearly are not, so I’m not taking your advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it important for him to look NT? If difficulty making eye contact and slouching are signs of anxiety, I'm surprised you aren't asking how to help with his anxiety, rather than make himself more uncomfortable hiding his anxiety.

Eye contact can be painful for many ND people. It can also make it more difficult for them to focus, pay attention, and participate. This should not be the thing you focus on.

I disagree. All kids deserve to be taught that basic politeness means making some eye contact and saying hello. Doesn’t mean you demand it constantly but yes the should be taught. And they also need to learn to make eye contact crucially to ensure that they are understood when they are eg buying something in a store or asking the bus driver if it’s the right bus. It is a basic communication skill.

Why on earth do I need to make eye contact when buying something in a store? I take my items to the cashier, they ring them up, I pay. Eye contact is not needed to be understood.

Politeness requires acknowledging others when interacting with them. It requires looking in their general direction. But eye contact itself is not required. If I look at someone's nose or ears because that allows me to engage in conversation, I have no obligation to make myself uncomfortable.

I’m trying to make my child appear normal, you clearly are not, so I’m not taking your advice.

Trying to make an ND child appear "normal" leads to anxiety, depression, and other mental health concerns. Please consider why you are more concerned with appearances than your child's well being.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it important for him to look NT? If difficulty making eye contact and slouching are signs of anxiety, I'm surprised you aren't asking how to help with his anxiety, rather than make himself more uncomfortable hiding his anxiety.

Eye contact can be painful for many ND people. It can also make it more difficult for them to focus, pay attention, and participate. This should not be the thing you focus on.

I disagree. All kids deserve to be taught that basic politeness means making some eye contact and saying hello. Doesn’t mean you demand it constantly but yes the should be taught. And they also need to learn to make eye contact crucially to ensure that they are understood when they are eg buying something in a store or asking the bus driver if it’s the right bus. It is a basic communication skill.

You do realize that often the bus driver is looking at the road and not giving the people asking them questions, eye contact right?

[Anonymous]

OP, it sounds like he did better the second day. That's fine. He's making progress.

[Anonymous]

Have you considered a PEERS group? It’s a social skills group with other kids with social challenges, and they specialize in teens. It might be for older teens though, but something to think about for the future.

Regardless, I agree to keep doing what you’re doing (although I do wonder what you mean by “coming down hard.” That sounds so punitive). The more experience he has in groups that he enjoys, the better. He’s only 13 and still has a lot of maturing ahead. And the fact that the next day was better…well, that’s good.

I always used to give the instructor a heads up about my kid’s challenges, with some helpful suggestions, if possible and they were always receptive and appreciative. It was going to obvious anyway, and I didn’t want them to think she was uncooperative, etc.

[Anonymous]

It was going to *be* obvious ^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it important for him to look NT? If difficulty making eye contact and slouching are signs of anxiety, I'm surprised you aren't asking how to help with his anxiety, rather than make himself more uncomfortable hiding his anxiety.

Eye contact can be painful for many ND people. It can also make it more difficult for them to focus, pay attention, and participate. This should not be the thing you focus on.

I disagree. All kids deserve to be taught that basic politeness means making some eye contact and saying hello. Doesn’t mean you demand it constantly but yes the should be taught. And they also need to learn to make eye contact crucially to ensure that they are understood when they are eg buying something in a store or asking the bus driver if it’s the right bus. It is a basic communication skill.

Why on earth do I need to make eye contact when buying something in a store? I take my items to the cashier, they ring them up, I pay. Eye contact is not needed to be understood.

Politeness requires acknowledging others when interacting with them. It requires looking in their general direction. But eye contact itself is not required. If I look at someone's nose or ears because that allows me to engage in conversation, I have no obligation to make myself uncomfortable.

I’m trying to make my child appear normal, you clearly are not, so I’m not taking your advice.

Is this OP? Trying to make your child appear “normal” can be a painful, losing battle for you both, although I do agree with basic politeness and development of communications skills. It’s such a tricky balance. I fell into the pattern of coaching my kid to hide her quirks in certain circumstances and she felt it as criticism of who she is.

[Anonymous]

He sounds a lot like my daughter, although she has no ADHD diagnosis. But the quirky, somewhat anti-social behavior is there. For us, it is so much better now at age 17 than it was at 13. So it might be something that just needs more time. Keep with the gentle redirection. We found if we explain why we’re doing it, she was more receptive to it.