Maury Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

I agree that DCPS has a longer tradition of phonics but unless I’m wrong, I don’t think it is required to be used in every school. 50% of students scoring 1 on PARCC suggest DCPS needs to be targeting Miner kids with heavy duty intervention, not engaging in magical thinking about how all they need is to be in a classroom with kids who read on a higher level … As for math, no you cannot learn math without memorizing math facts. Period.

Miner uses Heggarty. Also, Miner families can confirm this, but I believe they also have "heavy duty" intervention for reading and math in the early grades. A major issue at Miner is attrition after the early grades, and then many spots going to OOB students who may not have done their early grades at Miner (similar to the issues Maury and other schools have with their 5th grades).

If you get new kids at 2nd or 3rd from OOB, who may have attended a school with even bigger issues that Miner even at the ECE and early grade level (where Miner actually does pretty well) your ability as a school to magically address their lack of fundmentals before they take PARCC is limited. You can attempt aggressive interventions, but these kids tend to be harder cases, may have undiagnosed learning disabilities, and may be coming to school only sporadically. They may have been lotteried into Miner by one parent with joint custody but never show up on days when their other parent has custody, for instance.

Of course, this problem is self-reinforcing. Because when lower grade parents see those PARCC scores, they flee, leaving spots open for more OOB kids. And the families lotterying into a school with bad PARCC schools at 2nd and 3rd tend to be the families with the kids who are furthest behind and most in need of help.

We attended a school with a very similar profile until 2nd grade and while we had a great experience, we still left. I don't know the solution to the problem. When we thought about staying, we worried we'd be the only, or among the only, MC families to stay. This is a really difficult issue that is sort of unique to DC because of the lottery and school choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Actually, memorizing basic math facts is something every student should be doing in addition to learning math strategies. Ask any math teacher and they'll tell you this.

Related to this, when my kid went to Watkins, she had access to excellent programs in Clever to help her memorize math facts. I don't see the same programs in Maury's Clever portal. Is each school's Clever portal individualized, or does every DCPS school get the same set?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Yep, in fact Miner uses Heggerty too

Of course they do, it's required by DCPS. Maury and Miner both use the same curriculum.

I love that there are people who think Miner's test scores are low because they aren't teaching phonics, and not because 65% of their school population experiences things like poverty, housing insecurity, parents in jail, etc.

So you think that there’s nothing to be done to actually teach them directly to read & write better and the only possible thing is being in physical proximity to kids who read better? This almost supernatural belief is an interesting take on curriculum.

See 15:08. You misunderstand the problem. There are kids who go through Miner's curriculum and are learning well and probably score 3/4/5 on the PARCC. It just they are leaving Miner before they can do this. By the time you get to 3rd grade at Miner, there are virtually none of these families left, and convincing them to stay is incredibly hard because they have to stay as a group. When you factor in that 3rd and up is also when it gets easier to lottery into schools like Maury, LT, Brent, etc. you see the problem.

It's a revolving door. JOW has a similar issue. LT did too for a long time until people buying in that part of the Hill became a little less transient (only a little, LT actually still deals with this problem).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Yep, in fact Miner uses Heggerty too

Of course they do, it's required by DCPS. Maury and Miner both use the same curriculum.

I love that there are people who think Miner's test scores are low because they aren't teaching phonics, and not because 65% of their school population experiences things like poverty, housing insecurity, parents in jail, etc.

So you think that there’s nothing to be done to actually teach them directly to read & write better and the only possible thing is being in physical proximity to kids who read better? This almost supernatural belief is an interesting take on curriculum.

See 15:08. You misunderstand the problem. There are kids who go through Miner's curriculum and are learning well and probably score 3/4/5 on the PARCC. It just they are leaving Miner before they can do this. By the time you get to 3rd grade at Miner, there are virtually none of these families left, and convincing them to stay is incredibly hard because they have to stay as a group. When you factor in that 3rd and up is also when it gets easier to lottery into schools like Maury, LT, Brent, etc. you see the problem.

It's a revolving door. JOW has a similar issue. LT did too for a long time until people buying in that part of the Hill became a little less transient (only a little, LT actually still deals with this problem).

I have trouble understanding how the cluster model would help this problem. It would create a natural break between schools when families would leave, just like at Peabody-Watkins. You don't even have the continuity and community of one school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

I agree that DCPS has a longer tradition of phonics but unless I’m wrong, I don’t think it is required to be used in every school. 50% of students scoring 1 on PARCC suggest DCPS needs to be targeting Miner kids with heavy duty intervention, not engaging in magical thinking about how all they need is to be in a classroom with kids who read on a higher level … As for math, no you cannot learn math without memorizing math facts. Period.

Miner uses Heggarty. Also, Miner families can confirm this, but I believe they also have "heavy duty" intervention for reading and math in the early grades. A major issue at Miner is attrition after the early grades, and then many spots going to OOB students who may not have done their early grades at Miner (similar to the issues Maury and other schools have with their 5th grades).

If you get new kids at 2nd or 3rd from OOB, who may have attended a school with even bigger issues that Miner even at the ECE and early grade level (where Miner actually does pretty well) your ability as a school to magically address their lack of fundmentals before they take PARCC is limited. You can attempt aggressive interventions, but these kids tend to be harder cases, may have undiagnosed learning disabilities, and may be coming to school only sporadically. They may have been lotteried into Miner by one parent with joint custody but never show up on days when their other parent has custody, for instance.

Of course, this problem is self-reinforcing. Because when lower grade parents see those PARCC scores, they flee, leaving spots open for more OOB kids. And the families lotterying into a school with bad PARCC schools at 2nd and 3rd tend to be the families with the kids who are furthest behind and most in need of help.

We attended a school with a very similar profile until 2nd grade and while we had a great experience, we still left. I don't know the solution to the problem. When we thought about staying, we worried we'd be the only, or among the only, MC families to stay. This is a really difficult issue that is sort of unique to DC because of the lottery and school choice.

This is correct. From the interventions available (coaches, reading specialists, outside partners) to the fact that the lottery making it easy for IB families to leave opens up spots for kids from other areas that are struggling even more. If DCPS would just focus on actually making all the schools good the. Then the lottery would only be necessary for PreK, but I know that is not even close to reality.

I think the struggles really start in Kindergarten where there’s a huge learning gap. There are so many kids who don’t go to PreK and have had no education yet at all, and then there are some who have excelled and even learned how to read in PreK. The gap is so wide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Yep, in fact Miner uses Heggerty too

Of course they do, it's required by DCPS. Maury and Miner both use the same curriculum.

I love that there are people who think Miner's test scores are low because they aren't teaching phonics, and not because 65% of their school population experiences things like poverty, housing insecurity, parents in jail, etc.

So you think that there’s nothing to be done to actually teach them directly to read & write better and the only possible thing is being in physical proximity to kids who read better? This almost supernatural belief is an interesting take on curriculum.

See 15:08. You misunderstand the problem. There are kids who go through Miner's curriculum and are learning well and probably score 3/4/5 on the PARCC. It just they are leaving Miner before they can do this. By the time you get to 3rd grade at Miner, there are virtually none of these families left, and convincing them to stay is incredibly hard because they have to stay as a group. When you factor in that 3rd and up is also when it gets easier to lottery into schools like Maury, LT, Brent, etc. you see the problem.

It's a revolving door. JOW has a similar issue. LT did too for a long time until people buying in that part of the Hill became a little less transient (only a little, LT actually still deals with this problem).

I have trouble understanding how the cluster model would help this problem. It would create a natural break between schools when families would leave, just like at Peabody-Watkins. You don't even have the continuity and community of one school.

I don't know. I didn't design the cluster plan. I'm just trying to explain to people who haven't experienced life at a school like Miner why it's not so easy as just "teach better" or "invest in the school" or "retain IB families." It's really hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Yep, in fact Miner uses Heggerty too

Of course they do, it's required by DCPS. Maury and Miner both use the same curriculum.

I love that there are people who think Miner's test scores are low because they aren't teaching phonics, and not because 65% of their school population experiences things like poverty, housing insecurity, parents in jail, etc.

So you think that there’s nothing to be done to actually teach them directly to read & write better and the only possible thing is being in physical proximity to kids who read better? This almost supernatural belief is an interesting take on curriculum.

See 15:08. You misunderstand the problem. There are kids who go through Miner's curriculum and are learning well and probably score 3/4/5 on the PARCC. It just they are leaving Miner before they can do this. By the time you get to 3rd grade at Miner, there are virtually none of these families left, and convincing them to stay is incredibly hard because they have to stay as a group. When you factor in that 3rd and up is also when it gets easier to lottery into schools like Maury, LT, Brent, etc. you see the problem.

It's a revolving door. JOW has a similar issue. LT did too for a long time until people buying in that part of the Hill became a little less transient (only a little, LT actually still deals with this problem).

I have trouble understanding how the cluster model would help this problem. It would create a natural break between schools when families would leave, just like at Peabody-Watkins. You don't even have the continuity and community of one school.

But you have the continuity and community of one neighborhood. My kids were in a bunch of different schools all over the Hill, and switching schools was never a problem because they already knew half the kids through Cap Hill Little League, or DC Way, or Girl Scouts, or Mr. Tony's adventure camp, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ludlow is 17% at risk and JOW is 59% at risk. Both feed to SH. They are 3 blocks away from each other. If clustering schools is the solution why aren't those also under consideration?

This has been addressed several times on this thread. The Advisory committee only looked at school pairs where the difference in at-risk students was 50% or more -- LT/JOW didn't meet this threshold.

None of the other pairs that were considered were as close as Maury/Miner, and the others had major traffic arteries separating the schools, making the commuting issues people are raising for Maury/Miner significantly worse.

That's a completely made up threshhold. Is there data suggesting 50% is the magic number or is that just what committee decided?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

I agree that DCPS has a longer tradition of phonics but unless I’m wrong, I don’t think it is required to be used in every school. 50% of students scoring 1 on PARCC suggest DCPS needs to be targeting Miner kids with heavy duty intervention, not engaging in magical thinking about how all they need is to be in a classroom with kids who read on a higher level … As for math, no you cannot learn math without memorizing math facts. Period.

Miner uses Heggarty. Also, Miner families can confirm this, but I believe they also have "heavy duty" intervention for reading and math in the early grades. A major issue at Miner is attrition after the early grades, and then many spots going to OOB students who may not have done their early grades at Miner (similar to the issues Maury and other schools have with their 5th grades).

If you get new kids at 2nd or 3rd from OOB, who may have attended a school with even bigger issues that Miner even at the ECE and early grade level (where Miner actually does pretty well) your ability as a school to magically address their lack of fundmentals before they take PARCC is limited. You can attempt aggressive interventions, but these kids tend to be harder cases, may have undiagnosed learning disabilities, and may be coming to school only sporadically. They may have been lotteried into Miner by one parent with joint custody but never show up on days when their other parent has custody, for instance.

Of course, this problem is self-reinforcing. Because when lower grade parents see those PARCC scores, they flee, leaving spots open for more OOB kids. And the families lotterying into a school with bad PARCC schools at 2nd and 3rd tend to be the families with the kids who are furthest behind and most in need of help.

We attended a school with a very similar profile until 2nd grade and while we had a great experience, we still left. I don't know the solution to the problem. When we thought about staying, we worried we'd be the only, or among the only, MC families to stay. This is a really difficult issue that is sort of unique to DC because of the lottery and school choice.

This is correct. From the interventions available (coaches, reading specialists, outside partners) to the fact that the lottery making it easy for IB families to leave opens up spots for kids from other areas that are struggling even more. If DCPS would just focus on actually making all the schools good the. Then the lottery would only be necessary for PreK, but I know that is not even close to reality.

I think the struggles really start in Kindergarten where there’s a huge learning gap. There are so many kids who don’t go to PreK and have had no education yet at all, and then there are some who have excelled and even learned how to read in PreK. The gap is so wide.

+1. At another Title 1 and in Kindergarten there were kids who were already reading cvc words and sounding things out, and there were kids who did not know their ABCs. And then in first you had kids who were still working on cvc words and other who were reading chapter books and writing paragraphs with proper grammar and punctuation.

So much of it comes down to outside support, too. Schools do everything they can and DCPS had some insanely talented teachers, especially at the ECE level where the qualifications are amazing. But if you have kids who don't have books at home, don't get read to, get stuck on screens all day to distract them because there's no proper childcare available, PLUS might have additional stressors relating to food or housing insecurity or violence in the home. Poverty makes learning really hard. Schools that serve a lot of at risk kids are doing something that I think a lot of the parents posting on this forum have no concept of. One reason this conversation is so disappointing is how fundamentally a lot of people who attend a school like Maury just don't even get it and don't want to -- they just want to keep the poor kids away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Yep, in fact Miner uses Heggerty too

Of course they do, it's required by DCPS. Maury and Miner both use the same curriculum.

I love that there are people who think Miner's test scores are low because they aren't teaching phonics, and not because 65% of their school population experiences things like poverty, housing insecurity, parents in jail, etc.

So you think that there’s nothing to be done to actually teach them directly to read & write better and the only possible thing is being in physical proximity to kids who read better? This almost supernatural belief is an interesting take on curriculum.

See 15:08. You misunderstand the problem. There are kids who go through Miner's curriculum and are learning well and probably score 3/4/5 on the PARCC. It just they are leaving Miner before they can do this. By the time you get to 3rd grade at Miner, there are virtually none of these families left, and convincing them to stay is incredibly hard because they have to stay as a group. When you factor in that 3rd and up is also when it gets easier to lottery into schools like Maury, LT, Brent, etc. you see the problem.

It's a revolving door. JOW has a similar issue. LT did too for a long time until people buying in that part of the Hill became a little less transient (only a little, LT actually still deals with this problem).

I have trouble understanding how the cluster model would help this problem. It would create a natural break between schools when families would leave, just like at Peabody-Watkins. You don't even have the continuity and community of one school.

But you have the continuity and community of one neighborhood. My kids were in a bunch of different schools all over the Hill, and switching schools was never a problem because they already knew half the kids through Cap Hill Little League, or DC Way, or Girl Scouts, or Mr. Tony's adventure camp, etc.

Miner and Maury both have neighborhood continuity already and struggle to retain kids in the upper grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Yep, in fact Miner uses Heggerty too

Of course they do, it's required by DCPS. Maury and Miner both use the same curriculum.

I love that there are people who think Miner's test scores are low because they aren't teaching phonics, and not because 65% of their school population experiences things like poverty, housing insecurity, parents in jail, etc.

So you think that there’s nothing to be done to actually teach them directly to read & write better and the only possible thing is being in physical proximity to kids who read better? This almost supernatural belief is an interesting take on curriculum.

See 15:08. You misunderstand the problem. There are kids who go through Miner's curriculum and are learning well and probably score 3/4/5 on the PARCC. It just they are leaving Miner before they can do this. By the time you get to 3rd grade at Miner, there are virtually none of these families left, and convincing them to stay is incredibly hard because they have to stay as a group. When you factor in that 3rd and up is also when it gets easier to lottery into schools like Maury, LT, Brent, etc. you see the problem.

It's a revolving door. JOW has a similar issue. LT did too for a long time until people buying in that part of the Hill became a little less transient (only a little, LT actually still deals with this problem).

I have trouble understanding how the cluster model would help this problem. It would create a natural break between schools when families would leave, just like at Peabody-Watkins. You don't even have the continuity and community of one school.

But you have the continuity and community of one neighborhood. My kids were in a bunch of different schools all over the Hill, and switching schools was never a problem because they already knew half the kids through Cap Hill Little League, or DC Way, or Girl Scouts, or Mr. Tony's adventure camp, etc.

Miner and Maury both have neighborhood continuity already and struggle to retain kids in the upper grades.

That's because half the neighborhood goes to Latin/Basis. If you want to continue neighborhood continuity, you need to send your kids there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ludlow is 17% at risk and JOW is 59% at risk. Both feed to SH. They are 3 blocks away from each other. If clustering schools is the solution why aren't those also under consideration?

This has been addressed several times on this thread. The Advisory committee only looked at school pairs where the difference in at-risk students was 50% or more -- LT/JOW didn't meet this threshold.

None of the other pairs that were considered were as close as Maury/Miner, and the others had major traffic arteries separating the schools, making the commuting issues people are raising for Maury/Miner significantly worse.

That's a completely made up threshhold. Is there data suggesting 50% is the magic number or is that just what committee decided?

I think they just need some way to narrow down the search. It stands to reason that schools with a wider disparities might be more in need of a drastic solution like this. I do think Miner probably needs more help than JOW on this front, anecdotally. And LT already serves higher percentages of at risk AND SpEd kids than Maury does, plus is not majority white (just barely, it's 49%, but still not majority).

So it seems like the arbitrary cut off actually makes sense? Miner/Maury does seem like a better candidate than LT/JOW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Yep, in fact Miner uses Heggerty too

Of course they do, it's required by DCPS. Maury and Miner both use the same curriculum.

I love that there are people who think Miner's test scores are low because they aren't teaching phonics, and not because 65% of their school population experiences things like poverty, housing insecurity, parents in jail, etc.

So you think that there’s nothing to be done to actually teach them directly to read & write better and the only possible thing is being in physical proximity to kids who read better? This almost supernatural belief is an interesting take on curriculum.

See 15:08. You misunderstand the problem. There are kids who go through Miner's curriculum and are learning well and probably score 3/4/5 on the PARCC. It just they are leaving Miner before they can do this. By the time you get to 3rd grade at Miner, there are virtually none of these families left, and convincing them to stay is incredibly hard because they have to stay as a group. When you factor in that 3rd and up is also when it gets easier to lottery into schools like Maury, LT, Brent, etc. you see the problem.

It's a revolving door. JOW has a similar issue. LT did too for a long time until people buying in that part of the Hill became a little less transient (only a little, LT actually still deals with this problem).

I have trouble understanding how the cluster model would help this problem. It would create a natural break between schools when families would leave, just like at Peabody-Watkins. You don't even have the continuity and community of one school.

But you have the continuity and community of one neighborhood. My kids were in a bunch of different schools all over the Hill, and switching schools was never a problem because they already knew half the kids through Cap Hill Little League, or DC Way, or Girl Scouts, or Mr. Tony's adventure camp, etc.

Miner and Maury both have neighborhood continuity already and struggle to retain kids in the upper grades.

That's because half the neighborhood goes to Latin/Basis. If you want to continue neighborhood continuity, you need to send your kids there.

+1. My kid goes to one of these schools. All the carpools to events are easy because almost all of his 4th grade class went to the same school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the other thread about Miner it really seems like DCPS should get them some solid leadership support and see how that helps before dismantling and rearranging both schools like duplos.

And wait another 10 years?

who said DCPS has to wait to start figuring out how to improve academics in high-needs schools? they can start doing it now by mandating phonics and going back to teaching math facts. nobody is stopping DCPS.

I do not know what you are talking about. I have a kindergartener in a Title 1 school (not Miner) and they use a mandated and very good phonics program (Heggarty). DCPS does new math like every other school in the country -- memorizing math facts is no longer considered the best approach pedagogically. I was not initially sold but the more I see how they approach it, the more sense it makes to me. Instead of relying on memorized times tables or similar, kids learn strategies for decoding any math problem using logic and fundamental knowledge. It's a good system.

None of this has anything to do with Miner -- their problem is not curriculum-based. But oh by the way, LOTS of the cities high-SES fell prey to the Lucy Caulkins reading trap, including the vaunted SWS, to disastrous effect.

Yep, in fact Miner uses Heggerty too

Of course they do, it's required by DCPS. Maury and Miner both use the same curriculum.

I love that there are people who think Miner's test scores are low because they aren't teaching phonics, and not because 65% of their school population experiences things like poverty, housing insecurity, parents in jail, etc.

So you think that there’s nothing to be done to actually teach them directly to read & write better and the only possible thing is being in physical proximity to kids who read better? This almost supernatural belief is an interesting take on curriculum.

See 15:08. You misunderstand the problem. There are kids who go through Miner's curriculum and are learning well and probably score 3/4/5 on the PARCC. It just they are leaving Miner before they can do this. By the time you get to 3rd grade at Miner, there are virtually none of these families left, and convincing them to stay is incredibly hard because they have to stay as a group. When you factor in that 3rd and up is also when it gets easier to lottery into schools like Maury, LT, Brent, etc. you see the problem.

It's a revolving door. JOW has a similar issue. LT did too for a long time until people buying in that part of the Hill became a little less transient (only a little, LT actually still deals with this problem).

I have trouble understanding how the cluster model would help this problem. It would create a natural break between schools when families would leave, just like at Peabody-Watkins. You don't even have the continuity and community of one school.

But you have the continuity and community of one neighborhood. My kids were in a bunch of different schools all over the Hill, and switching schools was never a problem because they already knew half the kids through Cap Hill Little League, or DC Way, or Girl Scouts, or Mr. Tony's adventure camp, etc.

Miner and Maury both have neighborhood continuity already and struggle to retain kids in the upper grades.

That's because half the neighborhood goes to Latin/Basis. If you want to continue neighborhood continuity, you need to send your kids there.

Or everyone could attend their IB school and they would improve

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ludlow is 17% at risk and JOW is 59% at risk. Both feed to SH. They are 3 blocks away from each other. If clustering schools is the solution why aren't those also under consideration?

This has been addressed several times on this thread. The Advisory committee only looked at school pairs where the difference in at-risk students was 50% or more -- LT/JOW didn't meet this threshold.

None of the other pairs that were considered were as close as Maury/Miner, and the others had major traffic arteries separating the schools, making the commuting issues people are raising for Maury/Miner significantly worse.

That's a completely made up threshhold. Is there data suggesting 50% is the magic number or is that just what committee decided?

I think they just need some way to narrow down the search. It stands to reason that schools with a wider disparities might be more in need of a drastic solution like this. I do think Miner probably needs more help than JOW on this front, anecdotally. And LT already serves higher percentages of at risk AND SpEd kids than Maury does, plus is not majority white (just barely, it's 49%, but still not majority).

So it seems like the arbitrary cut off actually makes sense? Miner/Maury does seem like a better candidate than LT/JOW.

But why does it have to be just one pair? If clusters are awesome and improve outcomes for all kids, let's have more of them. Right?