IB Programs

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My sophomore is thinking of taking IB program. She does great in her AP classes and is getting A's and is ok with the workload but we are worried if she takes IB the intensity may be too much. All of her friends are doing it and she mentions it gives a great bump for college acceptances. Curious if anyone would share their experience. Thanks!

The IB’s great bump for college acceptance is a myth, same as the supposed superiority for writing in IB compared to AP. I’ve never seen any independent evidence to support these claims.

The problem with IB is that it’s really light on actual classes, only 6 over two years, to end up with a shaky general knowledge foundation. In exchange you get busywork classes like Theory of Knowledge, “extracurricular” activities etc. When people extol the “analysis” and “critical thinking” in IB, it’s just to mask the lack of breadth and depth in the curriculum.

A comparable schedule for an AP student would be 5-8 AP classes plus a few regular ones. If you’re careful with your choices you can get a solid preparation in either sciences and humanities because it’s a la carte, so you can align the coursework with your interests.

AP is different than IB in terms of writing. All IB classes, even STEM, require a lot of analytical writing. AP classes not so much. The amount of writing is different between the two.

That said, you can indeed get a solid education with taking just AP classes.

+1. You can do well with either and one might be better than another for a given kid but to suggest that IB lacks depth or gives you a shaky foundation is just dumb (as in do you work for the College Board dumb)

The point is in IB you don’t get enough breadth and depth from the number of classes you take. Is one single humanities class enough preparation if you’re interested in this area? I’m doubtful.

Supposedly there’s more “analytical writing” in IB. What does that even mean? There’s less of it in AP, is that teacher dependent, built in the curriculum? Posters in this thread make a lot of assertions that don’t stand even the most cursory scrutiny.

Arguing that IB lacks depth because some of its classes require 2 years is a good example of an assertion that doesn’t stand the most cursory scrutiny.

Lets see:

Two year IB Math HL AA gets the same college credit as the one year AP Calculus BC

Two year IB HL Physics gets the same college credit as the one year AP Physics C

Two year IB HL Chemistry gets the same college credit as the one year AP Chemistry

Hopefully you see the pattern. That’s true for all HL classes compared to the AP counterparts, humanities included.

Interpret this how you’d like, but to me it looks like IB HL classes are a hybrid of slow paced college classes. Doesn’t exactly inspire depth to be honest. If you’re relying on the IB courses alone over two years in the diploma program, you’re stuck with two HL classes (ie the slow paced college level classes) and four SL classes, roughly the equivalent of regular high school classes. Thats six classes in two years!

That’s the problem with one size fits all approaches that IB is modeled on, they can’t be too rigorous because they risk loosing enrollment. They can’t be too much like regular classes, because there’s no incentive to sign up. In the end IB is trying to strike a balance and set itself apart through other features, TOK, EE, “analytical writing” etc. of dubious benefit to the students.

IB is an international standard, used for university admissions all over the world. It isn’t designed to align with typical American course sequences like AP is.

I don’t disagree with what you said. I only take issue with the IB cheerleaders that claim IB is the pinnacle of high school education when it’s far from it. Classes are slower paced compared to college, for what is worth some students may need and benefit from it, some won’t.

AP’s are designed as college classes, not typical American college classes. AP Calculus has the same syllabus as an American, European or any other university in the world. IB on the other hand is not. Half of it is review material of high school math, which is why is taught over two years.

You are just making stuff up now. Tbh neither IB nor AP is equivalent to a top college class. Plenty of students find that out when they get to college.

Leaving that aside, inferring that receiving the same credit for HL IB and AP classes means that the classes are equivalent and therefore HL IB goes at a slower pace is just something you made up in your head.

Finally, if it matters, plenty of colleges give credit for SL (1 year) IB classes.

I meant the slow pace in the IB class is due to spending time to review high school topics. Top students students don’t need to review linear equations and quadratics, and would benefit more from going straight into calculus topics.

It matters how colleges view these advanced classes in relation to their own, that’s a proxy for rigor.

Besides that, there’s the opportunity cost for the student. If you spend two years in the HL class, then you don’t have room in your schedule for other classes that might be of interest.

Why are you solely focused on math? Most high level IB courses are not math nor do they have any review components. If the kid is learning more and enjoys the subject then they are happy to be in the second year of the course. My child loves the HL history class for example. They are not “missing out” on any of the other history courses because they are in the one they want.

High school curriculum is essentially math, English, science, social science, and foreign language.

People tend to focus on Math and English because it’s a common experience, all others are more variable. Are you taking Physics or Biology? History or Economics? Spanish or Mandarin? They way European History is taught may not be relevant to psychology. So math is chosen as indicative of stem quality, and English for humanities.

But plenty of kids do AP math and IB humanities, even diploma kids, so trying to make broad statements about the IB curriculum based on what theorems they teach in math is of limited use.

What are the chances that IB Math is crap and IB Physics or Chemistry is amazing? They are correlated to some degree.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My sophomore is thinking of taking IB program. She does great in her AP classes and is getting A's and is ok with the workload but we are worried if she takes IB the intensity may be too much. All of her friends are doing it and she mentions it gives a great bump for college acceptances. Curious if anyone would share their experience. Thanks!

The IB’s great bump for college acceptance is a myth, same as the supposed superiority for writing in IB compared to AP. I’ve never seen any independent evidence to support these claims.

The problem with IB is that it’s really light on actual classes, only 6 over two years, to end up with a shaky general knowledge foundation. In exchange you get busywork classes like Theory of Knowledge, “extracurricular” activities etc. When people extol the “analysis” and “critical thinking” in IB, it’s just to mask the lack of breadth and depth in the curriculum.

A comparable schedule for an AP student would be 5-8 AP classes plus a few regular ones. If you’re careful with your choices you can get a solid preparation in either sciences and humanities because it’s a la carte, so you can align the coursework with your interests.

AP is different than IB in terms of writing. All IB classes, even STEM, require a lot of analytical writing. AP classes not so much. The amount of writing is different between the two.

That said, you can indeed get a solid education with taking just AP classes.

+1. You can do well with either and one might be better than another for a given kid but to suggest that IB lacks depth or gives you a shaky foundation is just dumb (as in do you work for the College Board dumb)

The point is in IB you don’t get enough breadth and depth from the number of classes you take. Is one single humanities class enough preparation if you’re interested in this area? I’m doubtful.

Supposedly there’s more “analytical writing” in IB. What does that even mean? There’s less of it in AP, is that teacher dependent, built in the curriculum? Posters in this thread make a lot of assertions that don’t stand even the most cursory scrutiny.

Arguing that IB lacks depth because some of its classes require 2 years is a good example of an assertion that doesn’t stand the most cursory scrutiny.

Lets see:

Two year IB Math HL AA gets the same college credit as the one year AP Calculus BC

Two year IB HL Physics gets the same college credit as the one year AP Physics C

Two year IB HL Chemistry gets the same college credit as the one year AP Chemistry

Hopefully you see the pattern. That’s true for all HL classes compared to the AP counterparts, humanities included.

Interpret this how you’d like, but to me it looks like IB HL classes are a hybrid of slow paced college classes. Doesn’t exactly inspire depth to be honest. If you’re relying on the IB courses alone over two years in the diploma program, you’re stuck with two HL classes (ie the slow paced college level classes) and four SL classes, roughly the equivalent of regular high school classes. Thats six classes in two years!

That’s the problem with one size fits all approaches that IB is modeled on, they can’t be too rigorous because they risk loosing enrollment. They can’t be too much like regular classes, because there’s no incentive to sign up. In the end IB is trying to strike a balance and set itself apart through other features, TOK, EE, “analytical writing” etc. of dubious benefit to the students.

IB is an international standard, used for university admissions all over the world. It isn’t designed to align with typical American course sequences like AP is.

I don’t disagree with what you said. I only take issue with the IB cheerleaders that claim IB is the pinnacle of high school education when it’s far from it. Classes are slower paced compared to college, for what is worth some students may need and benefit from it, some won’t.

AP’s are designed as college classes, not typical American college classes. AP Calculus has the same syllabus as an American, European or any other university in the world. IB on the other hand is not. Half of it is review material of high school math, which is why is taught over two years.

You are just making stuff up now. Tbh neither IB nor AP is equivalent to a top college class. Plenty of students find that out when they get to college.

Leaving that aside, inferring that receiving the same credit for HL IB and AP classes means that the classes are equivalent and therefore HL IB goes at a slower pace is just something you made up in your head.

Finally, if it matters, plenty of colleges give credit for SL (1 year) IB classes.

I meant the slow pace in the IB class is due to spending time to review high school topics. Top students students don’t need to review linear equations and quadratics, and would benefit more from going straight into calculus topics.

It matters how colleges view these advanced classes in relation to their own, that’s a proxy for rigor.

Besides that, there’s the opportunity cost for the student. If you spend two years in the HL class, then you don’t have room in your schedule for other classes that might be of interest.

Why are you solely focused on math? Most high level IB courses are not math nor do they have any review components. If the kid is learning more and enjoys the subject then they are happy to be in the second year of the course. My child loves the HL history class for example. They are not “missing out” on any of the other history courses because they are in the one they want.

High school curriculum is essentially math, English, science, social science, and foreign language.

People tend to focus on Math and English because it’s a common experience, all others are more variable. Are you taking Physics or Biology? History or Economics? Spanish or Mandarin? They way European History is taught may not be relevant to psychology. So math is chosen as indicative of stem quality, and English for humanities.

But plenty of kids do AP math and IB humanities, even diploma kids, so trying to make broad statements about the IB curriculum based on what theorems they teach in math is of limited use.

What are the chances that IB Math is crap and IB Physics or Chemistry is amazing? They are correlated to some degree.

Not sure they are but there is a whole other set of courses generally known as humanities.

Many people will say IB is better for humanities than STEM, in part because of the focus on depth, analysis and writing.

Kind of like how a kid focused on STEM might not benefit from the St Johns college curriculum.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are there any AP courses that require a research paper, with elements like cited references and conformance with a specific style guide?

I know we wrote several in my own AP English class eons ago, before it was split into Lang and Lit, but even then it wasn’t a requirement for the AP course—we did it because the school system’s curriculum dictated it. The College Board never saw them.

But even back then, we didn't write research papers in AP history classes, just memorized facts and drilled endlessly on how to tick all the boxes and hit all the keywords in our exam essays. Similarly, the AP history classes my kid took in 9th and 10th didn’t require anything close to what they wrote in IB history for the IA.

So are there any APs that *do* require something like a research paper, something that might prep them for their college coursework? Maybe AP Seminar? (Not sure I have that name right— it’s not offered at my kids’ school.)

There is AP Capstone Diploma that consists of AP Seminar (1st year, where you learn how to research and analyze a topic, and AP Research (2nd year where you write a 4000-5000 word paper). You also need to pass four AP exams to get the Diploma. It seems to emulate the IB diploma framework with AP courses.

It’s not that rare, likely depends on the local schools, about 60k students take Seminar each year, and that’s roughly comparable with AP Computer Science A or the number of students taking the IB Diploma. A large fraction of students don’t seem to follow through, because only 25k students take AP Research, still a significant number.

College credit wise, as an example, MIT gives 9 unrestricted credits to the AP Seminar and AP Research with scores of 5, but no credit to the IB Diploma.

MIT currently gives the same 9 unrestricted credits to any Humanities HL IB course.

On the other hand I’m not really sure what the point of using AP/IB credits at MIT is— I guess it lets you graduate while taking fewer classes but I’m not sure that’s generally a good thing.

With AP credit, a student can take one fewer semester-class each year and still graduate on time. It's an insurance policy for students who can't keep up with the MIT workload.

Most kids aren't going to MIT so not relevant.

You can say that about any other single school. People use MIT as an example and indication of rigor. If MIT gives some credit then it’s probably a good class. One could equally reference Berkeley, Stanford, Yale, or Ohio State for that matter.

If MIT gives some credit to AP Capstone, then that information has more value to me than any marketing blurb from College Board, even if my kid has zero chance of going there. I might even consider advising my student to take that class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that fewer and fewer of the most highly competitive colleges give credit for AP or IBD work in this century. Kids are probably better off focusing on what they're actually learning in high school than the prospect of getting college credit to save you some dough on tuition. AP curriculum has its own shortcomings. IBD language exams are much tougher to ace than AP language exams. There's no multiple choice with IBD and the exams stress advanced speaking and listening skills to a much greater extent than AP (because it's a European curriculum). If you want your kid to score high on an IBD language exam, even at the SL, you probably need to ensure that they land in full immersion environments for weeks during high school summers. If you don't speak the language consistently at home, plan ahead, save up, pay.

IB and AP foreign language exams have similar format, with multiple choice, essay, and listening and speaking components.

Not really. The listening and speaking components are tougher and more extensive for IBD. AP test more grammar and has more multiple choice.

[Anonymous]

It's just not that difficult to score a 5 on an AP language exam. In fact, MOST of those who take AP Chinese score 5s. Scoring a 7 on an IBD HL language exam is another story. Very very difficult.

[Anonymous]

+1. My kid took IBD and AP French exams. Only scored a 4/7 on IBD HL with an easy 5 on AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's just not that difficult to score a 5 on an AP language exam. In fact, MOST of those who take AP Chinese score 5s. Scoring a 7 on an IBD HL language exam is another story. Very very difficult.

A very large fraction of the Chinese and Spanish exam takers are native or heritage speakers. Not surprising they score 5. The importance of foreign language is slowly waning since English is the de facto language used everywhere and everything can be instantly translated with AI.

Most people these days learn a language outside of school, like through Duolingo. I always found their annual reports quite interesting. For Spanish and French most people learn for fun and connecting with people while English learners motivation is supporting their education.

For academic preparation, foreign language ranks last in priority in my view, time is much better spent learning English well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's just not that difficult to score a 5 on an AP language exam. In fact, MOST of those who take AP Chinese score 5s. Scoring a 7 on an IBD HL language exam is another story. Very very difficult.

You need to keep in mind there are two AP language classes like AP Spanish Language (easier) and AP Spanish Literature (harder, even for native speakers). IBD HL may be comparable with the second one.

If the goal is getting college credit then go with the easy AP, satisfy your requirements and you’re done.

If the goal is learning a language well, I don’t think taking high school classes is that effective, you’d be up to early B1 in AP Spanish Language. Immersion is more helpful you could get to B1/B2 in about a year if you’re serious. Make a Netflix profile for Spanish, talk to native speakers, hire tutors on italki, read in the other language. I took that route and after one year I can watch TV in Spanish and get about 90%, can keep up a conversation etc.

For certification neither AP nor IB are that useful, there are language specific ones like Dele/Cervantes for Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just not that difficult to score a 5 on an AP language exam. In fact, MOST of those who take AP Chinese score 5s. Scoring a 7 on an IBD HL language exam is another story. Very very difficult.

You need to keep in mind there are two AP language classes like AP Spanish Language (easier) and AP Spanish Literature (harder, even for native speakers). IBD HL may be comparable with the second one.

If the goal is getting college credit then go with the easy AP, satisfy your requirements and you’re done.

If the goal is learning a language well, I don’t think taking high school classes is that effective, you’d be up to early B1 in AP Spanish Language. Immersion is more helpful you could get to B1/B2 in about a year if you’re serious. Make a Netflix profile for Spanish, talk to native speakers, hire tutors on italki, read in the other language. I took that route and after one year I can watch TV in Spanish and get about 90%, can keep up a conversation etc.

For certification neither AP nor IB are that useful, there are language specific ones like Dele/Cervantes for Spanish.

AP only has French Language and Culture. The AP French literature was discontinued, because too few students were taking it. Only Spanish has the AP Spanish Literature class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that fewer and fewer of the most highly competitive colleges give credit for AP or IBD work in this century. Kids are probably better off focusing on what they're actually learning in high school than the prospect of getting college credit to save you some dough on tuition. AP curriculum has its own shortcomings. IBD language exams are much tougher to ace than AP language exams. There's no multiple choice with IBD and the exams stress advanced speaking and listening skills to a much greater extent than AP (because it's a European curriculum). If you want your kid to score high on an IBD language exam, even at the SL, you probably need to ensure that they land in full immersion environments for weeks during high school summers. If you don't speak the language consistently at home, plan ahead, save up, pay.

IB and AP foreign language exams have similar format, with multiple choice, essay, and listening and speaking components.

Not really. The listening and speaking components are tougher and more extensive for IBD. AP test more grammar and has more multiple choice.

+1 DC had to take an oral and written IB exam for FL. They also took the AP exam, which did not have an oral component.

[Anonymous]

Foreign language was one of the reasons we decided against IB. My DC did two years of Spanish in middle school, and the plan is to do two more years in high school. If he can handle it he’ll sign up for AP Spanish in junior year, if not he’s done. Four years of foreign language is plenty even for the most selective colleges. IB FL is hard, and you have to pick one for the diploma. May be different if you speak at home, otherwise it’s not worth the effort. You’ll be in class with native speakers and have to work that much harder to even be average and the GPA will suffer.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of anyone who thinks IB is half as rigorous as AP. Most people think they are the similar or if anything that IB is more rigorous.

They are similar, IB Math AA HL is comparable to AP calculus BC, but the IB class takes two years, while the AP only one and arguably goes in more depth.

It varies from course to course, but typically AP gets more credit. For the example above at UMD, IB math gets credit for Math 140 (Calculus 1) and Stat 100, while AP Calculus BC gets credit for Math 140 and 141 (Calculus 1 and Calculus 2).

"AP only one and arguably goes in more depth." -- no, it doesn't. AP is breadth, not depth. IB is depth.

I have kids who went through both.

Yes it does, look at the syllabus for both. IB math HL has 55 hours of calculus over two years, AP has 180 hours over one year.

AP Calculus BC specific topics like series and parametric functions are barely touched upon or missing completely. The rest are treated very superficially because there’s no time to go in depth. The remainder of the IB curriculum is statistics and a review of high school math (algebra, geometry and trigonometry).

That’s why AP usually gets credit for the second semester of calculus, but IB almost never does. At least for calculus, IB doesn’t go neither in depth nor in breadth.

Yes, which is why the RMIB students who take IB math HL also take AP BC Calc and MVC, and take the AP Calc and UMD MVC exams in HS.

This supports what the other poster was saying, if you take HL class you also need to take the AP counterpart or at least the AP exam to be competitive. A lot of wasted effort when you could go the AP route directly.

"wasted effort" is a loaded word. It depends on your goals. Lots of very high achieving kids who are STEM majors go the RMIBD route because it's challenging, especially for writing. If your goal is purely to get college credit, then yea, IBD is not worth it. If your goal is to take the most challenging programs, then IBD + AP classes is what you want. There aren't enough IB classes to fill 7 periods, so most kids take AP classes, too.

The very high achieving kids self study and do well on AP exams. If you are not that type of person, then you probably don't want to go the IBD route; just go the AP route.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of anyone who thinks IB is half as rigorous as AP. Most people think they are the similar or if anything that IB is more rigorous.

They are similar, IB Math AA HL is comparable to AP calculus BC, but the IB class takes two years, while the AP only one and arguably goes in more depth.

It varies from course to course, but typically AP gets more credit. For the example above at UMD, IB math gets credit for Math 140 (Calculus 1) and Stat 100, while AP Calculus BC gets credit for Math 140 and 141 (Calculus 1 and Calculus 2).

"AP only one and arguably goes in more depth." -- no, it doesn't. AP is breadth, not depth. IB is depth.

I have kids who went through both.

Yes it does, look at the syllabus for both. IB math HL has 55 hours of calculus over two years, AP has 180 hours over one year.

AP Calculus BC specific topics like series and parametric functions are barely touched upon or missing completely. The rest are treated very superficially because there’s no time to go in depth. The remainder of the IB curriculum is statistics and a review of high school math (algebra, geometry and trigonometry).

That’s why AP usually gets credit for the second semester of calculus, but IB almost never does. At least for calculus, IB doesn’t go neither in depth nor in breadth.

Yes, which is why the RMIB students who take IB math HL also take AP BC Calc and MVC, and take the AP Calc and UMD MVC exams in HS.

This supports what the other poster was saying, if you take HL class you also need to take the AP counterpart or at least the AP exam to be competitive. A lot of wasted effort when you could go the AP route directly.

"wasted effort" is a loaded word. It depends on your goals. Lots of very high achieving kids who are STEM majors go the RMIBD route because it's challenging, especially for writing. If your goal is purely to get college credit, then yea, IBD is not worth it. If your goal is to take the most challenging programs, then IBD + AP classes is what you want. There aren't enough IB classes to fill 7 periods, so most kids take AP classes, too.

The very high achieving kids self study and do well on AP exams. If you are not that type of person, then you probably don't want to go the IBD route; just go the AP route.

Is it though? There are better options out there than taking AP calculus BC then two years of HL Analysis. Like taking Statistics, sciences, putting more time in extracurriculars, take extra writing if that’s what you’re into, take some interesting classes through dual enrollment that aren’t offered at high school etc.

Theres the risk that a big chunk of high school is duplicate courses, eg 6 semesters of math (four in HLAA, two in BC) and 6 in physics (four in HL and 2 in Physics C), when you could do that in 4 semesters in AP and still have plenty of bandwidth to take up more. Not necessarily for college credit (although why not, I’d take it) but because you want to broaden your knowledge base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even MIT doesn't use epsilon-delta in its definition of limit or proof of trig derivatives.

https://youtu.be/kCPVBl953eY?si=Qg67lEG7iQpkd74H
Lec 1-3

Calculus, whether it's IB, AP, or MIT, is a different class from Real Analysis

Respectfully, you’re trying to prove a point without having the slightest clue about Calculus, it’s almost comical.

There’s a way to teach calculus rigorously using theorems, proofs and essentially derive as much as possible from first principles, which requires time and effort. Then there’s the IB way where you just memorize and apply formulas because you’re cramming two semesters of calculus in two months.

For the example from MIT OCW to show the derivative of sin(x), the rigorous treatment is to start with the epsilon delta definition to prove the squeeze theorem. Then you use the squeeze theorem to show that limit of sin(x)/x is 1, which you use to show the derivative of sin(x) is cos(x). They go over that briefly in the prior video, and keep in mind that’s not the totality of the class content, there’s recitation, exercises and homework too.

At the lowly community college where my child took Calculus 1, they go over some form of epsilon delta and proof of sin(x) derivative. Even Khan Academy goes in more depth
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/calculus-1/cs1-derivatives-definition-and-basic-rules/cs1-proof-videos/v/derivative-of-sin-x
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/ap-calculus-ab/ab-limits-new/ab-1-8/v/sinx-over-x-as-x-approaches-0

I bet MIT does it too, they’ll teach the fundamentals and some more. Not in IB though because that would be fetishism. How about the rest, like teaching Calculus without the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus! Got it, that’s fetishism too, we can’t have that. Then you have some complete morons with the nerve to claim that IB goes in depth and does “analytical writing”, while AP is rote memorization and teaching to the test.

In all honesty if a child talented in math is made to take the IB route that’s bad parenting and teaching malpractice.

Tell that to the RMIB kid who started at Princeton as a math major this year. They all take AP Calc B/C in addition to IB Math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even MIT doesn't use epsilon-delta in its definition of limit or proof of trig derivatives.

https://youtu.be/kCPVBl953eY?si=Qg67lEG7iQpkd74H
Lec 1-3

Calculus, whether it's IB, AP, or MIT, is a different class from Real Analysis

Respectfully, you’re trying to prove a point without having the slightest clue about Calculus, it’s almost comical.

There’s a way to teach calculus rigorously using theorems, proofs and essentially derive as much as possible from first principles, which requires time and effort. Then there’s the IB way where you just memorize and apply formulas because you’re cramming two semesters of calculus in two months.

For the example from MIT OCW to show the derivative of sin(x), the rigorous treatment is to start with the epsilon delta definition to prove the squeeze theorem. Then you use the squeeze theorem to show that limit of sin(x)/x is 1, which you use to show the derivative of sin(x) is cos(x). They go over that briefly in the prior video, and keep in mind that’s not the totality of the class content, there’s recitation, exercises and homework too.

At the lowly community college where my child took Calculus 1, they go over some form of epsilon delta and proof of sin(x) derivative. Even Khan Academy goes in more depth
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/calculus-1/cs1-derivatives-definition-and-basic-rules/cs1-proof-videos/v/derivative-of-sin-x
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/ap-calculus-ab/ab-limits-new/ab-1-8/v/sinx-over-x-as-x-approaches-0

I bet MIT does it too, they’ll teach the fundamentals and some more. Not in IB though because that would be fetishism. How about the rest, like teaching Calculus without the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus! Got it, that’s fetishism too, we can’t have that. Then you have some complete morons with the nerve to claim that IB goes in depth and does “analytical writing”, while AP is rote memorization and teaching to the test.

In all honesty if a child talented in math is made to take the IB route that’s bad parenting and teaching malpractice.

Tell that to the RMIB kid who started at Princeton as a math major this year. They all take AP Calc B/C in addition to IB Math.

Just to make sure I have the right person, is it the same RMIB kid who got the Nobel Prize for his groundbreaking theory of knowledge essay?