We keep arguing about work and home responsibilities because we're both overwhelmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It is helpful to read about how other families handle these challenges. I have to clarify that my DH did used to work a high-powered finance job where he earned 500k-600k. He was working 60+ hours/week. I freelanced. Neither of us liked that setup. I missed him, the kids missed him, he was stressed.

I also have to clarify that he doesn't have depression. We've been together since college, and he was always slow to get homework/readings done, to run errands, etc. He just moves at a different pace. I think that's what the biggest challenge is. (Coincidentally, I am abnormally efficient -- my work is pretty intense but I fit it into 40 hours because I'm fast).

My DH is willing to move workouts or work to the evenings, but then that means no couple time. So I feel like I have to pick between his help with home/kids and connecting as a couple. He does see all as a problem, he isn't taking advantage of me, he just can't move fast. And he hates that, but I don't think it can be changed.

About outsourcing, I've had a hard time finding someone who will work just a couple of afternoon hours (make dinner and drive to pick up my kids). I agree this sounds like a good plan but I'm not sure how to find someone.

Does it have to be all or nothing? Why can't he do workouts in the evenings 2 or 3 nights a week so he can help with morning kid stuff on those days, but you can still have the same couple time on the other days?

[Anonymous]

I did not consistently workout until my youngest was almost 5. Before that I really exercised by walking with the kids in a stroller, while they rode their bike etc.

It’s hard when they are that young.

You say you don’t want more childcare, but that’s what your friends with local grandparents are getting - additional help. Not sure if you can pay for cleaning or lawn or grocery delivery if you prefer to outsource those things instead.

[Anonymous]

I would have kept him in the $500-600k job, to be honest.

He now seems to be in the worst of all worlds- not earning an amazing salary but too busy to pick up his shsre of the house work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think your husband needs to put in some hours for work after the kids go to bed so that he's more available during the evening rush. Another option is to hire an afterschool babysitter/nanny who gets the kids from school and daycare, preps dinner, does some tidying up and housework, etc. That's expensive but it might save your sanity.

This, OP. Also do you have cleaners and yard care? Outsource. Order groceries online or do something like Blue Apron for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suggest he leans into his job, makes (a lot) more money, and you hire a lot more help to do all the household management stuff or allow you to go to part-time.

This is a viable solution combined with hiring help immediately. Have someone else pick up the kids, supervise, start dinner, do light cleaning, run errands like dry cleaner, etc.

OP, I'd keep an eye out for a remote or hybrid job for you. Since he makes so much more, maxing out his income seems the best route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of dads of young children at his salary level that get their work done in a way that allows them to be a contributing partner at home.

Oh I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying OP's DH is presenting this as a fait accompli; his hours are inflexible, his workouts are a priority, therefore she's gotta handle it all. OK. Well, but it seems he's also expecting her to do everything for these kids. There's a name for that: it's a SAHM. As long as he wants OP to have a job, and he wants nothing to change for him, that means they outsource. And on $270K combined salary in this area, that's either tricky or impossible while also paying for daycare. So. He wants his job to be the only contribution (and frankly to have this 1955 arrangement)? Time to bring in more money dude.

Now of course the easier, more equitable, healthier, and better-choice-as-a-father choice, is him actually participating in the family he created and working with his wife to help life move forward. But that's "impossible" because he's so "thorough", can't "multi-task", etc.

It's BS. And yes I sound annoyed. As another PP pointed out, DH is running quite the con, and OP sounds like she's genuinely struggling. I think that sucks.

I posted before that I now stay home but used to be in a similar situation. I actually also worked in finance and kept cutting down. At the end, I was doing more accounting and budgeting for flexibility, which is far different than more glamorous finance jobs in nyc.

In OP’s situation, I think her DH should try to get a higher paying job. 170 is pretty low. I made more than that fresh out of grad school 20 years ago. If he isn’t helping much around the house, he should at least earn more to get you more paid help.

In my house, I told Dh to go hard in his career and he did. He doesn’t worry about pick up or drop off or getting a kid to dance or soccer. I don’t get mad at him for never going grocery shopping or buying a birthday gift. I stopped working when he earned 800k. He now earns $2-3m.

I mean, this is disgusting and a terrible thing to model to both sons and daughters. But you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of dads of young children at his salary level that get their work done in a way that allows them to be a contributing partner at home.

Oh I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying OP's DH is presenting this as a fait accompli; his hours are inflexible, his workouts are a priority, therefore she's gotta handle it all. OK. Well, but it seems he's also expecting her to do everything for these kids. There's a name for that: it's a SAHM. As long as he wants OP to have a job, and he wants nothing to change for him, that means they outsource. And on $270K combined salary in this area, that's either tricky or impossible while also paying for daycare. So. He wants his job to be the only contribution (and frankly to have this 1955 arrangement)? Time to bring in more money dude.

Now of course the easier, more equitable, healthier, and better-choice-as-a-father choice, is him actually participating in the family he created and working with his wife to help life move forward. But that's "impossible" because he's so "thorough", can't "multi-task", etc.

It's BS. And yes I sound annoyed. As another PP pointed out, DH is running quite the con, and OP sounds like she's genuinely struggling. I think that sucks.

I posted before that I now stay home but used to be in a similar situation. I actually also worked in finance and kept cutting down. At the end, I was doing more accounting and budgeting for flexibility, which is far different than more glamorous finance jobs in nyc.

In OP’s situation, I think her DH should try to get a higher paying job. 170 is pretty low. I made more than that fresh out of grad school 20 years ago. If he isn’t helping much around the house, he should at least earn more to get you more paid help.

In my house, I told Dh to go hard in his career and he did. He doesn’t worry about pick up or drop off or getting a kid to dance or soccer. I don’t get mad at him for never going grocery shopping or buying a birthday gift. I stopped working when he earned 800k. He now earns $2-3m.

I mean, this is disgusting and a terrible thing to model to both sons and daughters. But you do you.

To add, you do you but please don’t recommend it to others who may not understand the implications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It is helpful to read about how other families handle these challenges. I have to clarify that my DH did used to work a high-powered finance job where he earned 500k-600k. He was working 60+ hours/week. I freelanced. Neither of us liked that setup. I missed him, the kids missed him, he was stressed.

I also have to clarify that he doesn't have depression. We've been together since college, and he was always slow to get homework/readings done, to run errands, etc. He just moves at a different pace. I think that's what the biggest challenge is. (Coincidentally, I am abnormally efficient -- my work is pretty intense but I fit it into 40 hours because I'm fast).

My DH is willing to move workouts or work to the evenings, but then that means no couple time. So I feel like I have to pick between his help with home/kids and connecting as a couple. He does see all as a problem, he isn't taking advantage of me, he just can't move fast. And he hates that, but I don't think it can be changed.

About outsourcing, I've had a hard time finding someone who will work just a couple of afternoon hours (make dinner and drive to pick up my kids). I agree this sounds like a good plan but I'm not sure how to find someone.

This last part is why several of us have suggested an au pair. I did have afternoon sitter/dinner help. I found one through sittercity and one through a nanny agency. Part time help is much more expensive per hour than full time help, but it can be found. Just know you’ll get a lot of turnover.

As for workouts, why can’t he do this during lunch or in the late evenings? When my kids were little, I was on the elliptical in the basement around 8 pm with the kids down by 7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine is a partner in big law. When his kids were young, he had a hard stop in the office at 5pm. From 5-8pm, he was unavailable. He would get online at 8pm and finish whatever work he needed to do. He clearly communicated his boundaries, people understood and respected them.

It's unfortunate this isn't the norm.

It can be the norm, but men have to step up and set the boundaries and not just expect their spouses to do everything.

OP, in terms of practical advice - given the lack of load your husband is carrying at home, working out every morning is a luxury. Could he shift workouts to Tues/Thurs and then also grab exercise time on the weekend?

This. I also suggest you not try to fit in structured workouts at lunch 5x per week, instead, 2 + weekend + walk for 30 min. other days.

I'd also have a standing sitter for a date night, ideally weekly but no less than 2x per month. You need to invest time in your relationship so it is not all about tasks and stress. It will lower the risk of divorce. Sometimes do things with other couples.

[Anonymous]

Shift to exercise you can do with kids. Stick them in a bike trailer and go for a long ride. Or shorter workouts after bedtime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of dads of young children at his salary level that get their work done in a way that allows them to be a contributing partner at home.

Oh I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying OP's DH is presenting this as a fait accompli; his hours are inflexible, his workouts are a priority, therefore she's gotta handle it all. OK. Well, but it seems he's also expecting her to do everything for these kids. There's a name for that: it's a SAHM. As long as he wants OP to have a job, and he wants nothing to change for him, that means they outsource. And on $270K combined salary in this area, that's either tricky or impossible while also paying for daycare. So. He wants his job to be the only contribution (and frankly to have this 1955 arrangement)? Time to bring in more money dude.

Now of course the easier, more equitable, healthier, and better-choice-as-a-father choice, is him actually participating in the family he created and working with his wife to help life move forward. But that's "impossible" because he's so "thorough", can't "multi-task", etc.

It's BS. And yes I sound annoyed. As another PP pointed out, DH is running quite the con, and OP sounds like she's genuinely struggling. I think that sucks.

I posted before that I now stay home but used to be in a similar situation. I actually also worked in finance and kept cutting down. At the end, I was doing more accounting and budgeting for flexibility, which is far different than more glamorous finance jobs in nyc.

In OP’s situation, I think her DH should try to get a higher paying job. 170 is pretty low. I made more than that fresh out of grad school 20 years ago. If he isn’t helping much around the house, he should at least earn more to get you more paid help.

In my house, I told Dh to go hard in his career and he did. He doesn’t worry about pick up or drop off or getting a kid to dance or soccer. I don’t get mad at him for never going grocery shopping or buying a birthday gift. I stopped working when he earned 800k. He now earns $2-3m.

I mean, this is disgusting and a terrible thing to model to both sons and daughters. But you do you.

DP. That's not disgusting. They can afford to outsource a lot now. If they are saving well, he will be able to retire early. I am assuming he does attend their games and parent them otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP how much money do ya’ll actually need? You should have savings after his previous massive salary. I would consider taking a break from work for awhile in your shoes. 170K should be plenty fir your family to live on. Everyone should be happier if you do it right. Life is too short to be thus stressed.

+1. I wish people realized how short life really is, at least that part of it when you are physically and mentally able to function.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of dads of young children at his salary level that get their work done in a way that allows them to be a contributing partner at home.

Oh I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying OP's DH is presenting this as a fait accompli; his hours are inflexible, his workouts are a priority, therefore she's gotta handle it all. OK. Well, but it seems he's also expecting her to do everything for these kids. There's a name for that: it's a SAHM. As long as he wants OP to have a job, and he wants nothing to change for him, that means they outsource. And on $270K combined salary in this area, that's either tricky or impossible while also paying for daycare. So. He wants his job to be the only contribution (and frankly to have this 1955 arrangement)? Time to bring in more money dude.

Now of course the easier, more equitable, healthier, and better-choice-as-a-father choice, is him actually participating in the family he created and working with his wife to help life move forward. But that's "impossible" because he's so "thorough", can't "multi-task", etc.

It's BS. And yes I sound annoyed. As another PP pointed out, DH is running quite the con, and OP sounds like she's genuinely struggling. I think that sucks.

I posted before that I now stay home but used to be in a similar situation. I actually also worked in finance and kept cutting down. At the end, I was doing more accounting and budgeting for flexibility, which is far different than more glamorous finance jobs in nyc.

In OP’s situation, I think her DH should try to get a higher paying job. 170 is pretty low. I made more than that fresh out of grad school 20 years ago. If he isn’t helping much around the house, he should at least earn more to get you more paid help.

In my house, I told Dh to go hard in his career and he did. He doesn’t worry about pick up or drop off or getting a kid to dance or soccer. I don’t get mad at him for never going grocery shopping or buying a birthday gift. I stopped working when he earned 800k. He now earns $2-3m.

I mean, this is disgusting and a terrible thing to model to both sons and daughters. But you do you.

Why is this disgusting? I did most of the kid stuff while I was working. I handled planning play dates, birthdays, vacations, bought gifts for friends, teachers, clothes, shoes, diapers, etc. While I haven’t asked everyone, most moms do this stuff whether they work or not.

I was burnt out in my finance job. I didn’t like my mommy tracked job and I now stay home while Dh earns. What is disgusting about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It gets better as they get older. Can you afford extra help in the mornings or afternoons? I served very simple meals when the kids were little and joined a carpool when they hit elementary.

NP. Disagree. It is much harder when they start doing extracurricular activities.

Then you need have to limit them to accommodate your household if you can't afford help.

No. If you want a kid to excel at anything, there is a significant time commitment. Even 1 activity can eat up several evenings/weekenfs. If there is more than one kid, even a once a week activity is now at least on two days a week

And that's why there are so many divorces.

This has nothing to do with divorce.
My parents are married.
I am divorced. We do this married or divorced. It literally does not matter. Busy 5-7 days week except summer. It is the way it is.

I'd cut back on the extracurriculars before threatening my spouse with divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of dads of young children at his salary level that get their work done in a way that allows them to be a contributing partner at home.

Oh I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying OP's DH is presenting this as a fait accompli; his hours are inflexible, his workouts are a priority, therefore she's gotta handle it all. OK. Well, but it seems he's also expecting her to do everything for these kids. There's a name for that: it's a SAHM. As long as he wants OP to have a job, and he wants nothing to change for him, that means they outsource. And on $270K combined salary in this area, that's either tricky or impossible while also paying for daycare. So. He wants his job to be the only contribution (and frankly to have this 1955 arrangement)? Time to bring in more money dude.

Now of course the easier, more equitable, healthier, and better-choice-as-a-father choice, is him actually participating in the family he created and working with his wife to help life move forward. But that's "impossible" because he's so "thorough", can't "multi-task", etc.

It's BS. And yes I sound annoyed. As another PP pointed out, DH is running quite the con, and OP sounds like she's genuinely struggling. I think that sucks.

I posted before that I now stay home but used to be in a similar situation. I actually also worked in finance and kept cutting down. At the end, I was doing more accounting and budgeting for flexibility, which is far different than more glamorous finance jobs in nyc.

In OP’s situation, I think her DH should try to get a higher paying job. 170 is pretty low. I made more than that fresh out of grad school 20 years ago. If he isn’t helping much around the house, he should at least earn more to get you more paid help.

In my house, I told Dh to go hard in his career and he did. He doesn’t worry about pick up or drop off or getting a kid to dance or soccer. I don’t get mad at him for never going grocery shopping or buying a birthday gift. I stopped working when he earned 800k. He now earns $2-3m.

I mean, this is disgusting and a terrible thing to model to both sons and daughters. But you do you.

Why is this disgusting? I did most of the kid stuff while I was working. I handled planning play dates, birthdays, vacations, bought gifts for friends, teachers, clothes, shoes, diapers, etc. While I haven’t asked everyone, most moms do this stuff whether they work or not.

I was burnt out in my finance job. I didn’t like my mommy tracked job and I now stay home while Dh earns. What is disgusting about this?

Nothing. Pp is envious.